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Post by scanners on Dec 21, 2014 9:02:19 GMT
Hey Charlie, I did something I don't know if many others have to get the closest sound, I ran my Zoom EFTP through the effects loop of my AC 30 and it sounds fantastic, as close to records I have heard, I thought the top boost and normal channels must colour it a bit? Does the effects loop only go through the power amp is that why?
Thanks Matthew
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Post by Viv on Dec 21, 2014 9:34:19 GMT
Hey Charlie, I did something I don't know if many others have to get the closest sound, I ran my Zoom EFTP through the effects loop of my AC 30 and it sounds fantastic, as close to records I have heard, I thought the top boost and normal channels must colour it a bit? Does the effects loop only go through the power amp is that why? Thanks Matthew Hi Matthew, If you don't mind me responding. That is the best place for effects on the AC30. On my Ac30 C2 I plug the Zoom into effects loop and plug the guitar directly into the low top boost channel. Turn the top boost volume all the way down and then set the master volume quite high. After that use the top boost volume control to get the volume level you want. Gives a good clean sound. Bass and treble in the middle. Cheers Viv |
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Post by scanners on Dec 21, 2014 10:22:13 GMT
Thanks for the tip i"ll try that also
Matthew
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Post by bor64 on Dec 21, 2014 14:28:44 GMT
Matthew, Hank's AC30's didn't have a effects loop because back then it didn't exist and second it's not easy to create such loop in a all tube amp like the AC30...with the old schematics.
So how can we get closer to the exact sound if we do things different then he did?
Cheers Rob
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Post by Viv on Dec 21, 2014 15:02:39 GMT
Matthew, Hank's AC30's didn't have a effects loop because back then it didn't exist and second it's not easy to create such loop in a all tube amp like the AC30...with the old schematics. So how can we get closer to the exact sound if we do things different then he did? Cheers Rob Hi Rob, I would like to defend what I said I did to achieve a clean sound. With all due respects, Hank never had a G3 with EFTP, but it is known that when he used the Quadroverb Q20 with EFTP it was connected through the effects loop on his amp. Since they were later model Vox amps. My recording, miked from in front of the AC30, demonstrates the clean sound I get from the setup I explained. Cosy No mastering took place. One take recording into Audacity. Cheers Viv |
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Post by Ed Cornish on Dec 21, 2014 16:12:13 GMT
Hi All,
Well this is interesting, as I have been using the built in effects on my Behringer GMX110 for a while now. I have a Zoom G2 and as stand alone it's OK if you used to something less - if you know what I mean! Putting it through the amp and also using the delay/reverb pre-sets balanced against the sound of an original recording I think I have come up with some pretty good stuff. There are two ways I can do this. At the moment I am using the effects loop connection on the rear of the amp (bypassing the pre-amp). Alternatively, I could connect from the front and use the pre-amp to further boost the signal, However, when I first used it via the pre-amp, I was playing my Squire Stagemaster HSH, which I thought was a bit overpowering (through my headphones anyway!. I have yet to make a recording to judge the accuracy of the produced effect - in the New year hopefully.
Ed
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Post by Airhostess. on Dec 21, 2014 16:26:20 GMT
Hi All,
now not being into the intricacies of all the possible ways of connecting stuff I would willingly bow to greater knowledge from members on here, however I connect my stuff as follows..........Guitar..... into swell/volume pedal or other pedals....pedal/pedals into top boost of AC30 CC2.....out of FX loop on "send" on the back of the amp.........to "in" on my Quadraverb plus......out of Quad plus, back into "FX return" on the AC 30......seems to work for me.
Best wishes
Kay
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Post by Viv on Dec 21, 2014 16:42:53 GMT
Hi All, now not being into the intricacies of all the possible ways of connecting stuff I would willingly bow to greater knowledge from members on here, however I connect my stuff as follows..........Guitar..... into swell/volume pedal or other pedals....pedal/pedals into top boost of AC30 CC2.....out of FX loop on "send" on the back of the amp.........to "in" on my Quadraverb plus......out of Quad plus, back into "FX return" on the AC 30......seems to work for me. Best wishes Kay Hi Kay, Sounds an interesting method, and I can't fault it since you're using more than one effects box. I did find when I used individual effects pedals some were not so great through the effects loop. Presently I only use the Zoom G3, and occasionally a volume pedal, which has it's own connection directly into the G3 with a stereo cable. All other pedals I had were given away. So my connection is FX send to G3 input and G3 output to FX return. Guitar directly into AC30 low top boost. Cheers Viv |
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Post by localhero on Dec 21, 2014 16:50:19 GMT
Hank never did use later Vox amps, he wouldn't. After half a dozen Voxes went down out of ten delivered for the 1981 tour, they switched to Mesa Boogie for a number of years.
When Hank resumed as a solo artiste in the early nineties, he was using a Matchless DC30. After that he was given the KCP to use followed by the Pinnacle, neither of which employed a Send and Return.
Charlie was at at least one set up on their 2004 concert tour, he 's the man to clear this up.
That said, the Send & Return is a great option should you have it to use. It works great on my Mesa Boogie.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 21, 2014 18:01:39 GMT
Hank never did use later Vox amps, he wouldn't. After half a dozen Voxes went down out of ten delivered for the 1981 tour, they switched to Mesa Boogie for a number of years. When Hank resumed as a solo artiste in the early nineties, he was using a Matchless DC30. After that he was given the KCP to use followed by the Pinnacle, neither of which employed a Send and Return. Charlie was at at least one set up on their 2004 concert tour, he 's the man to clear this up. That said, the Send & Return is a great option should you have it to use. It works great on my Mesa Boogie. Correct. I believe one if not both of Hank's DC30 amps had an effects loop but these were not proper effects loops as we understand them, they were nothing more than a break in the signal chain, and I think could only work on one of the two channels, or there were two effects loops, one for each channel. This is the way Vox and Matchless amps were designed as they had no mixer stage for the two channels, which were separate all the way to the power amp. Hank did not use the effects loop. Regards, Charlie |
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 21, 2014 18:03:50 GMT
Hi Matthew,
It would depend on how you connected the guitar and the effects loop.
If you connected the guitar to the Zoom, then the Zoom output to the amp effects return, that would completely bypass the amp's preamp. Is that what you did?
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by scanners on Dec 21, 2014 20:28:00 GMT
Hi Charlie, yes I went straight into the effects return. Rob, I take your captain obvious point, but the early shads stuff didn't use an AC 30 top boost, that's where Charlie has tried to match the tone on the Zoom
Matthew
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Post by scanners on Dec 21, 2014 20:28:59 GMT
Hi Charlie, yes I went straight into the effects return. Rob, I take your captain obvious point, but the early shads stuff didn't use an AC 30 top boost, that's where Charlie has tried to match the tone on the Zoom
Matthew
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Post by Charlie Hall on Dec 21, 2014 20:34:28 GMT
Hi Matthew,
In that case the Zoom was acting as the preamp and echo unit and the AC30 power amp and speakers did the rest.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by bor64 on Dec 21, 2014 21:28:53 GMT
Hi Viv, with all due respect....I was revering to the sound Matthew described as recorded sound as in "that Sound" aka the old sound.
Hence my remark about the absence of a loop in the AC30 back then.....the AC30 you revering to is a modern variation on a theme Hank wouldn't use if he could avoid.
I can assure you what you announced as a know fact, it was not known by me....
But what do I know....after being multiple times backstage at the shads tours and Hanks tours, standing on his(Hank) stage talking shop and sniffing his gear before a sound-check, during sound-check in the room on the first row, doing interviews with Hank, Brain and conversations with Bruce. Holding nearly all the guitars in my own hands, played Apache on "the" original strat once, cheek to cheek with the guitar and sound techs such as Lionel, JJ stage left etc. .... apparently not much....
What a do know about his AC30 he use now in his studio...that's a six vents "CBS" Vox with grey speakers....these amps runs hotter compared with the usual run of the mill AC30's because one of the changes they made, was the diode bridge and Vox specialist and collectors know they run more then 10 watts louder... approx. 43/45 watts instead of the 33 watt a regular AC30 do. Upside of these amps they stay longer clean aka more headroom.
Guess what this amp isn't equipped with a effect-loop either(how do I know? I've own one too...bought in 83 for 250 GBP).
Like other revering to, Hank used solo two Dennis Cornel amps, two Matchless DC30's, two KCP's. 2004 2005 with the shads started with a few KCP's and the second tour he started with a few Pinnacle's, used even a twin reverb for a night and ended up with again a couple of trustfully Matchless amp heads and the speakers of the Pinnacle...The last reunion with Cliff a few rip-off AC30's from JMI.
Cheers Rob
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Post by bor64 on Dec 21, 2014 21:48:55 GMT
Hi Matthew, I wasn't revering to a top boost at all...
You on the other hand was revering to an AC30 although a modern one, so I simply was going on that line as well.
I know about the Selmer Truvoice Amplifiers, the AC15's and the AC30/4 on the early recordings and hits....
Cheers Rob
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Post by scanners on Dec 21, 2014 23:44:25 GMT
I have 2 AC 30 custom classics, version 1 and 2 version 1 has all that fancy switching on it with 2 inputs, version 2 is basic but with 4 inputs. I previously ran my Zoom into the normal channel of version 1, which is flat, but it has a switch that turns it into a treble AC 30, it was too bright with that on. On my version 2, they have messed with the normal channel and made it brighter, I would have preferred if the just removed the bass it would be perfect for early shads stuff, hence I have trouble if I run the Zoom EFTP into that with the amp modeling, even with the cut fully on it's too bright, why I looked at the effects loop as another option than the top boost channel
Matthew
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Post by Viv on Dec 22, 2014 6:33:32 GMT
Hi Charlie, yes I went straight into the effects return. Rob, I take your captain obvious point, but the early shads stuff didn't use an AC 30 top boost, that's where Charlie has tried to match the tone on the Zoom Matthew Hi Matthew, Despite me being wrong about Hank and the Vox I still stand by my original description of how I connect the G3. Listen to my recording I posted of Cosy and see if you can find any tonal difference between that and this Shadows recording The Shadows - CosyThere is none. Viv |
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Post by scanners on Dec 22, 2014 9:00:24 GMT
does your G3 have amp modeling also or just the echo ?
Matthew
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Post by Viv on Dec 22, 2014 9:21:45 GMT
does your G3 have amp modeling also or just the echo ? Matthew Hi Matthew, I have the Premium (without amp modeling) and Standard (with built in amp modeling) EFTP patches. The premium I use when connected to my Vox and the standard when performing live through a PA system. Is case you are unaware; on the G3 with EFTP the master setting must be set to "direct" whether using standard or premium patches. If you use the G3 unit's amp modelling as well it will clash with the EFTP patches and not sound very good. Cheers Viv |
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Post by scanners on Dec 22, 2014 10:41:26 GMT
I have the G7 with EFTP patches which amp modeling is included, but there is a bypass switch for just the echo. It works well on my older AC 30 normal channel with the amp modeling, but not so good on my newer one with the brighter normal channel, even with the cut fully on it sounds too harsh. That's why I have been experimenting with the effect loop.
Matthew
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