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Post by milko on Apr 20, 2015 22:24:28 GMT
Hi Charlie, Thanks for your reply. I'll await the manufacturer's email and order accordingly. As regards those members worried about doing 'Cardholder not present' over the phone:- I would have thought that we were protected under normal credit card procedure?? I'm no expert, but I hope so!! Giving details over the phone is always a concern, but on the basis that Electromech are a sound company, no pun intended, I'm going to follow their procedure with confidence. Thanks for your help and speedy reply Charlie. Kindest regards, Milko
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Post by bor64 on Apr 21, 2015 4:12:44 GMT
Craig, it wasn't Charlie who mentioned the 5% or PayPal at all....it was me. 99.9% of the time firms who use PayPal in transaction with customers ad up the 4.3% PayPal fee within the price so customers don't know it...
Derek mentioned also you can do a bank transfer if favoured.
Cheers Rob
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 6:52:30 GMT
I have been in touch with them via several e-mails and I can confirm that if you wish to pay via Paypal there will be a £20 charge! They suggest bank transfer but this may be expensive for people outside the UK or EU and I guess that not too many people have got £600 sitting in their bank account... The option to pay with a card over the telephone is not secure in any way and they suggest that the cardholder gives them a password and then when they make contact, they have to say the password. Think they need to get this sorted properly.
I have suggested that they could set up a secure payment facility (on their website perhaps) enabling customers to pay with a credit/debit card or Paypal. It's quite easy to do and could be used by anyone worldwide...
Jim
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Post by bjorn on Apr 21, 2015 7:04:31 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I got a mail from Derek which was readable, nice. We had a good communication about the payment process and ways to pay. It is true that PayPal charge the seller 5%. but a bank transfer is not free either for the customer, at least in Sweden. it seems in this case that the card payment is the one which not affect the price on bottom line although the card company usually take some percent from the seller. I will go for the PayPal my self, because it easy, secure and well proven. Regards Bjorn
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Post by bjorn on Apr 21, 2015 7:21:03 GMT
Jim, I wasn't aware of your post. I fully agree that a secured payment facility is the best way. But time is short to set it up. I have no experience of setting up such things. Maybe it is easy as you say. Bjorn
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 21, 2015 8:27:21 GMT
I have given up with Paypal since I stopped selling EFTP patches. Their charge varies (or did then) according to what country is sending and what country is receiving, so you never really know what the charge is going to be until after they have deducted their fee and it shows on the statement. I was so mad at the well known auction site about them not supporting me with piracy issues I told them to stuff it and that Paypal would lose £20,000 worth of business a year from me because of their stupidity. That's how strongly I feel about it all. I really don't understand the negativity with telephone payments. When Peter was running EFTP's daily business he took payments by card over the phone for years without a single problem, yet online payments always had a reputation of being unsafe because of hacking etc. It's a strange world we live in now. Seems like if people tell you something enough, everyone will start to believe it. Regards, Charlie
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Post by philmcg on Apr 21, 2015 8:48:53 GMT
I agree with Charlie telephone payment is very common - I often pay Car Insurance and some utility bills this way. So what makes this different? - My email came today and I was allocated a serial number - when I get the phonecall providing they can quote the same serial number then you know it came from them. Then pay with a credit card (rather than debit card) then if anything goes wrong you can claim from the credit card company. Paypal is expensive for the seller and I can see why they have to pass on their charges to the customer.
Cheers Phil
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Post by noelford on Apr 21, 2015 9:18:13 GMT
It always amuses me when people say they would never give anyone their bank details in an email or over the phone. Yet they are quite happy to write cheques which have their name, their bank, their account number and their sort code printed on them, plus their signature!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 9:49:49 GMT
Some advice I found on why it is unwise to give out your card details on the phone:
Depending on a companies indiviudal data collection and storage properties and the way they process card transactions, you card details could end up being jotted down on a piece of paper and left on a desk somewhere.
The safest way to pay for things online is through sites that use payment processing systems like Paypal to carry out transactions which link you to the Paypal site so the company you are dealing with never knows your card details.
Sites that look professional and creditable on the front may be using the low end of technology and security to process your order.
A lot of its down to trust, if you must give your card details over the phone, always make sure YOU HAVE INITIATED THE CALL (i.e. they didn't phone you) and ensure that the number you call is from a genuine source, if you're not sure about that call a Directory Enquires number and ask to be connected or call a customer service number first to confirm the number you are dialing.
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Post by rogerbayliss on Apr 21, 2015 10:13:46 GMT
Received my email today and was quite readable and okay.
I think all transactions have an element of risk in some way. I think I will opt for bank transfer and get them to answer a few questions such as confirming the serial number. However this has clearly come from a third party via Charlie Hall and overall I think any risks will be low as the email was expected as discussed and the methods so it is unlikely to be Phishing email leading to a call. ie all recipients have been made aware of the methods and contacted in the stated way.
I give companies my credit card details over tele from time to time but I generally feel okay because I initiated the contact or was expecting the contact to renew and pay.
Again here I was expecting this email and would therefore reasonably expect it to be legitimate.
Try using the call back method to make payment if in doubt and check the tele number on Who Calls if in doubt.
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Post by rogerbayliss on Apr 21, 2015 10:30:41 GMT
To Charlie Hall
Can we have the details of the Golf Company dealing ie address and tele and perhaps their website. I think they should put contact details up on the Hall and Collins Website ti increase confidence in buyers.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 21, 2015 10:36:23 GMT
Hi Roger, One of the directors has today joined this site and is going to post here later to reassure everyone. Any unanswered questions that remain can be addressed then. Regards, Charlie
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Post by steveelec on Apr 21, 2015 10:43:59 GMT
Hi all, I thought I would join the forum to try and re-assure any of you that have doubts about the echo unit. I am a Director from Electromech, the company that is manufacturing the unit. We have been trading since 1986 and in that time have worked in many fields of Electronics and sub-contract manufacturing. We provide electronics for the Golf, medical, amusement and retail trades among others as well as 2 prestige UK car manufacturers.
In order to keep the end price of the unit as low as possible it was decided not to take online payments for the echo unit. Although we have built in the credit card companies charge in the price we have not taken into account additional fees by paypal. Other companies that do provide these payment facilities add this to the selling price and so this is an 'invisible' cost to the buyer. This also allows us to manage the production and distribution to keep the high expectations you the customers expect
As Electromech is not a public facing company i.e we do not deal directly with the public. All payments will be taken by Golfstream Ltd, which is a company owned entirely by us which is a public facing company hence why the transaction appears as 'golf purchase'. Golfstream takes many credit / debit card transactions online via there website and over the telephone on a daily basis. Golfstream also shares the same 11,000 sq ft offices/factory space as Electromech. This is a method Electromech has used for other customers and has never been a problem.
No credit card details are stored on the premises or on our computer system. All details taken are destroyed as soon as the payment has been cleared. We have procedures in place to comply with the taking of card details which are in place to protect our customers.
Sorry for the long post but I hope this re-assures that we are a legitimate company who has invested a large sum of money in procuring the parts for the Echo unit and that we are not working from a 'garden shed'.
Thanks Stephen
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Post by rogerbayliss on Apr 21, 2015 10:47:55 GMT
So please can we have the address and tele numbers for the business at least Steveelec ? What is the Golf Website address
Thanks in anticipation
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Post by steveelec on Apr 21, 2015 10:52:03 GMT
So please can we have the address and tele numbers for the business at least Steveelec ? What is the Golf Website address Thanks in anticipation The name of the golf company is Golfstream Ltd as mentioned in my previous post and their web address is www.golfstream.co.uk. All of their details are on the site.
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Post by rogerbayliss on Apr 21, 2015 10:53:59 GMT
Thankyou and what tele number will be used to contact us so we know it is from yourselves
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Post by rogerbayliss on Apr 21, 2015 11:03:09 GMT
Electromech siteI take it this is the site for Electromech as they have a similar address to the Golf Company ?
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fab1
Member
Posts: 9
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Post by fab1 on Apr 21, 2015 11:13:00 GMT
Hi Stephen, how will taking credit card details over the phone work with customers in other countries and time zones that don't sync up with your business hours in the UK. I don't really want a call at 3am asking for my credit card details. There must be a better more convenient way to take payments for worldwide sales?
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Post by steveelec on Apr 21, 2015 11:21:58 GMT
Electromech siteI take it this is the site for Electromech as they have a similar address to the Golf Company ? Yes that is our site I will speak to the team and find out how the international orders will be taken and post back as soon as I know.
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Post by kipper on Apr 21, 2015 11:50:13 GMT
hi all i think you are all seeing problems here with payment that really dont exist. sure we all have to be careful these days with online this and that, but paying by card over the phone is an everyday thing. paypal is safe but they take a big slice for there time. alright i cant guarantee that at some point some where some thing could go wrong, but thats how things are today. i personaly still like to pay with a cheque posted to seller bit old fashion and low tech but it works simple. but most things are over the phone these days. peter
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Post by Cruachan on Apr 21, 2015 13:17:16 GMT
Hi,
I'm with Peter. I really do think we need to relax and try not to second guess problems that, in this instance, quite evidently do not exist.
There can be no doubt for the need to take care when transactions are conducted remotely but, in common with most, I have every confidence making payments using PayPal or by Telephone to known and trusted sources. Only once have I experienced an issue and that was with a company that subsequently went bankrupt. Fortunately, I had paid for the item using my credit card and the card issuer covered the loss fully. I would have had no such protection or recourse if I had paid by cheque and the receiver had cashed said cheque before announcing their insolvency and applying to go to Administration.
Thank you Stephen for filling us in with some helpful background.
All is proceeding smoothly this end. I have received my serial number in the email from the Electromech 'Hall and Collins Support Team', submitted the requested information and received a prompt acknowledgement from Derek stating he would be in contact shortly.
Standing by my telephone!
Mike
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Post by istvan on Apr 21, 2015 13:33:16 GMT
I think it will be okay! I have my telephone every time in readiness!
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colljaw
Member
The Controller
Posts: 426
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Post by colljaw on Apr 21, 2015 14:08:29 GMT
Thank you for taking time to post here Stephen.
Regards, Jim.
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Post by asimmd on Apr 21, 2015 14:24:40 GMT
stevelec said
"Although we have built in the credit card companies charge in the price"
Paying by Debit Card does not incur extra charges as do Credit Cards,that's why companies sometimes state a surcharge for Credit Card purchases but no surcharge for Debit Cards.
Alan
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Post by Jono on Apr 21, 2015 15:14:15 GMT
Hi Stephen & thank you for your reassurances. I had already done some checking on Electromech but knew nothing about Golfstream but I am very happy to make payment over the telephone if you use the password I sent you so that I will know the call is legit. Thank You.
John
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Post by Cruachan on Apr 21, 2015 15:21:09 GMT
stevelec said "Although we have built in the credit card companies charge in the price" Paying by Debit Card does not incur extra charges as do Credit Cards,that's why companies sometimes state a surcharge for Credit Card purchases but no surcharge for Debit Cards. Alan Hi Alan, Paying by Debit Card is usually not a good idea as you will you leave yourself exposed with very little protection if or when a problem arises. Not saying that this is likely to happen here, of course, but as a general principle it's best to avoid paying remotely by using a debit card. Regards Mike Reason for Edit: correction of misspelling of 'Alan' - my apologies!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 15:30:54 GMT
Not true Mike, if you pay using a credit card and there is a problem that you cannot resolve with the retailer, the Credit Card company has an obligation to sort it for you, so you are in fact, fully protected... Here it is:
Section 75 This law (part of the Consumer Credit Act 1974) protects you if you use your credit card to buy something costing between £100 and £30,000. You are legally entitled to get your money back if: • what you bought turns out to be faulty; • the company you bought the product or service from breaks their contract with you (for example they go out of business); or • the company you bought the product or service from don’t deliver what they have promised. This responsibility is jointly shared between the business you bought the goods or services from and your credit card company. You may even be able to make a successful claim if you only used your credit card to pay for part of what you bought, and the protection may cover any losses you have over and above the original amount you paid. It’s usually quicker and easier to sort out any problem with the business you bought from. If they can’t (or won’t) fix the problem, your credit card company will be able to help – just contact them with details of the purchase, along with any contract you were given and any other correspondence you have had when trying to fix the problem.
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Post by bor64 on Apr 21, 2015 15:37:05 GMT
At the moment I'm mailing Derek at Electromech /Golf, telling him the second corrected email with both serial numbers did not arrive for the second time at my mail address..... All in between mails did....so I'm puzzled....
Cheers Rob
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Post by steveelec on Apr 21, 2015 15:52:52 GMT
Rob, the email has definitely been sent as I have seen it. I will investigate this end and see if we can see why it has not reached you. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 21, 2015 15:55:23 GMT
Hi Jim, Mike was talking about DEBIT cards, not Credit cards. There is no protection with debit cards as far as I know, certainly not with mine anyway.
Hi Rob, Maybe Derek has reached a limit with sending emails like when it happened to me. Have you received an email yet?
Regards, Charlie
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