Shadows rhythm guitar playing

[silvervox]

Hi Folks
I have been playing Shadows lead guitar a few years now (still learning)   only at home, recently I fancied a change and started to learn rhythm for Apache I have just about got through it after a lot of hours practicing the chords and the strumming patterns at first I was using a 1mm pick I struggled so I am now using .38mm,another thing I found difficult was trying to voice the tune while strumming,my mind would knock my strumming out,i managed to get through it playing along with the record.Ihave just started Wonderful land is the strumming pattern similar to Apache I am struggling with it.Any body any tips that could help me along. Cheers Pete

[ade]

Hi Pete

Like you I played lead for a while but fancied a change to rhythm. I now find myself playing (and enjoying) rhythm on a regular basis and also found this helps my lead playing having to find alternative finger positions to enable smoother chord changes. I also found it better for me to use thinner picks fro rhythm.

I played along to the records as the timing is there with the drums, bass, lead and Bruce which meant I could concentrate on the chords and changes. It took a while, but eventually came together so I would say keep at it. Another factor I find is that the Shadows chord arrangements are far more involved as there are no vocals compared to than many traditional 12 bar, 3 chord rock numbers.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Ade

[rosemary]

Hi Pete (and Ade)
Thanks for these posts . I'm in a similar situation and there seems to be very little available to help new players going it alone for Shadows rhythm playing. Perhaps it's because so many guitarists start with chords and rhythm and have been playing so many years it's all so automatic and difficult to explain the basics. Having very small hands also makes it difficult to reach a lot of chords so I have to improvise a bit and not always include all the notes in the chords or play in different positions.

I also swap plectrums for rhythm and use .73 and have 10-52 strings (on my Strats also used for rhythm). I've learnt the rhythm parts of Apache, Wonderful Land and The Savage but have no idea if I'm doing it properly

The strumming on Wonderful Land is for me a lot more difficult than Apache and sometimes it seems I tend to try to follow the rhythm of the melody too much instead of sticking to a more basic rhythm pattern. It will probably all fall into place eventually if we keep at it though and maybe watch other rhythm players on YouTube etc. as well as at Shadows Clubs etc. In the meantime I just enjoy trying especially at the end of a practice session on lead as it's a nice relaxing way to finish up.

Best wishes
Rosemary

[silvervox]

Hi Ade and Rosemary 

I'm glad I'm not on my own on this one its not as easy as it looks, I suppose if there was somebody sat in front of me with a guitar and showing me in slow motion the strumming patterns I would find it a lot easier,   but that doesn't happen I have to watch and listen till it sinks in like most of us. Like Rosemary said we tend to try and play the melody instead of the specific rhythm for the tune. I can play rhythm for Apache and hum the lead in my head but not with Wonderful land it will come though eventually. Keep strumming cheers Pete.

[Cruachan]

Hi Rosemary,

As you may be aware by now, I meet with a friend every couple of weeks for an evening's jamming session. I play lead to his rhythm, we are both learning so we tend to be very forgiving of mistakes...

However, my knowledge of music and timing is a little more advanced than his and so it falls to me to create chord charts, which he finds helpful, for each number played.

Using Wonderful Land as an example:



If you would like to download the pdf file: backup.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d6f67885a6172b09ea7

Wonderful Land, as you will know, is played in 4/4 time with 4 beats to each bar. Note the numbers above some of the chords. Take the 2 above the first 'G'. This means that the 'G' chord is played/held for 2 beats and every other chord following is also played for 2 beats until that number changes. The next change occurs at the first 'G' in Verse 1 which is played/held for 4 beats. This carries on until the Bridge when every chord is played/held for 2 beats until the 'Em' at the end of the line which is played for 12 beats (4x3).

When we embark on a new tune I encourage my friend to forget all the fancy stuff meantime until he has a firm grasp of the timings for each chord. After all, I rely on him keeping accurate time otherwise it is all too easy for us to get out of sync and I am waiting for him or skipping notes to catch up..not good!

He starts by playing each chord arpeggio style with a slow and measured down stroke through the first beat. That way he can be sure he is striking each selected group of strings cleanly. It is not always necessary to play a full chord to be effective. Then the chord is muted for the remaining number of beats (a useful playng technique in its own right) allocated while allowing him thinking time before moving on to the next chord in the sequence. Throughout it all his foot is keeping a steady unbroken rhythmic beat by tapping the floor. This last is very important as correct timing is always the key to success and you need to cultivate the habit of counting silently to yourself until it becomes second nature.

Once his confidence grows, he then holds each chord for the duration of its allocated number of beats. Finally he will play downstrokes for every beat of every chord.

Using this approach there will come a time when he can introduce upstrokes to establish an appropriate rhythmic pattern to suit the melody, or embelish without overcomplicating, in any way he sees fit. Nothing is cast in stone!

Regards,
Mike

[rosemary]

Hi Mike
Thanks very much for taking the time to post this very detailed information. I think those are exactly the chords I play but as mentioned it's the timing I'm not 100% sure of with Wonderful Land's rhythm. I have a few variations in the rhythm in some bars but will now try it again with your file in basic time first. I agree the timing is absolutely vital and had thought of recording myself playing rhythm as a backing track to see if I can play lead to it. If I can't then obviously my timing needs a lot more work. Thanks again. This will be a big help to me and any others who might also be learning rhythm playing.
Best wishes
Rosemary

[patrice]

Hi Mike  and Rosemary

Just a remark about the chords played by Bruce during the three verses (1,2 and 3) of Wonderful Land.

Bruce don’t play only :
G – D – F – C – C – F – Bb – G  and during 4 bars for each chord
but
G – D (each for 4 bars, right, but) then
F - Dm - C - Am - C - Am - F - Dm (for only two bars each) and then
Bb – G (each again for 4 bars)

So and if you want to « copy » Bruce…


Regards
Patrice

[Cruachan]

Hi Rosemary,

Me again! Now, the rhythm pattern. I've created an audio file for you illustrating how I would play Wonderful Land. The levels have been adjusted to bring the rhythm guitar to the foreground while still maintaining sufficient original track in the background for you to follow. If you have Audacity then you could slow the track down until you get the hang of what's going on.

BOX
app.box.com/s/1cl2qjaqk8nutgtdtbdcb979t9w2h7rl

FilesAnywhere
backup.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d6f67886064757ab298

You can download from both links.

Please keep in mind that accomplished rhythm guitarist I ain't! - last time I played rhythm backing was back in my teens when I was in a group called 'The Orbits' so the rusting technique may be all too evident 😀

Now, if you listen carefully, you will quickly realise that most of the rhythm is played with downstrokes while upstrokes appear in the 'Ching-che-che-che-Ching-Ching-Ching-AND' bits equating as Down-down-up-down-Down-Down-Down-AND strokes of the pick.The 'AND' is where you lift off the strings, while your hand rises on the upstroke during the last beat of the bar, to move to the next/first chord/beat of the next bar. Hope that all makes sense.

The intro is played: Down-Down, Down-Up-Down-AND (G-G, F-F-F-AND) for the first two chords G and F. The lead starts on the second rhythm downstroke, so Rhythm starts WL first.

You might find it easier to listen to the track and get the Rhythm pattern in your head. The rest should then come naturally.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Mike

[Cruachan]

Apr 22, 2017 11:53:44 GMT patrice said:

Bruce don’t play only :
G – D – F – C – C – F – Bb – G  and during 4 bars for each chord
but
G – D (each for 4 bars, right, but) then
F - Dm - C - Am - C - Am - F - Dm (for only two bars each) and then
Bb – G (each again for 4 bars)

Hi Patrice,

Yes, that's the way I had it charted originally, but my trusty friend found all these chord changes quite tricky. So, I simplified it a little and we found it still sounds okay.

I'm assuming that when you wrote 'bars' actually you meant to write 'beats'.

Regards,
Mike

[patrice]

Hi Mike

Excuse me ! You're right... I wanted to say "beats" not "bars"... (The reason of my mistake: I don't practice enough english every day !  )

Now
If your friend take a look on this video : 
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDqaFnFELz8
He 'll see that Bruce plays the chords : F / Dm and C / Am (during the three verses) in the same part of the neck and all near the nut... (Nothing really difficult ?)
So, and "just" with a little bit more work, I think it's better to play the "complete" Bruce's chords list, than a simply version even if this one sounds OK !

Best regards from Paris 
Patrice

[rosemary]

Hi Mike
Thanks very much for making this audio file. It's fantastic! I ran through it a few times this afternoon and found I am pretty close to the way you play it but picked up quite a few hints on how to keep my rhythm more steady from your recording so I'll keep practising to it. I have to play a couple of chords in different positions because my 4th finger is so small I can't comfortably or smoothly reach to hold down the frets further up the fretboard. Maybe in time or with a different guitar with a thinner neck and not such heavy strings I might be able to play them the way most do but have to improvise some to fit. I learnt the chords for Wonderful Land some time ago but it's always been the strumming I've had doubts about so this is a tremendous help. Thanks again.
Best wishes
Rosemary

[silvervox]

HI Mike, Having problem opening wonderful land rhythm box file ? Cheers Pete.

Got it now thanks.

[Cruachan]

Hi Rosemary,

Glad you're finding it helpful.

Here's a tip: I'm not playing any bar chords in WL. Instead, I am using what I call the 'F' shape to play the F and G chords. That way when you slide your hand down from the G your 4th and 5th fingers are in position to play the Em. All chords are played down at the bottom of the fretboard including C, D, Dm, Fm and Bb. At times it can be helpful to have learned to play chords like E, Em and Am using your 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers instead of the traditional way. I call it economy of movement with fewer finger acrobatics as you switch chords. You don't need to play all 6 strings all the time. Often it's more effective to play just the first 4 (think of that Bb) or 5 or, indeed, the middle 4 strings while muting the 1st and 6th - depends what sound you wish to create. Mini chords are widely used by guitarists. Sometimes playing just 2 or 3 strings within a chord can deliver the sound you want. You get the idea.

Regards,
Mike

[rosemary]

Hi Mike
Thanks for those tips. I use quite a few of those shortcuts you mention but still get stuck in some songs depending on the key. There are only about half a dozen songs I can play rhythm to actually but enjoy it and it's been helping my lead playing. It gives more of an appreciation of the guitar as an instrument too.
Best wishes
Rosemary

[silvervox]

Hi
Got up this morning put Wonderful land on played rhythm all the way through using the chords Bruce plays,i never realized how great it feels to be able to play lead and be able to play rhythm. I feel that I have really advanced my guitar playing this last few week.
Thank you for everybody's help.Cheers Pete