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Post by barryjh on Jul 12, 2019 15:57:33 GMT
Hi. Hope someone can help clear my confusion. My old Laney LC15 died recently. Its been a great little amp and I have used it for live (mic'd) and recording. Its sound is very "Voxy", great Shadows sound. Because of my faith in the sound of this amp a wanted to replace it. The current model is now the Laney CUB12R and apart from the inclusion of a digital reverb the configuration seems much the same. When I called the supplier he stated that I should still get very close to the Vox AC 30 sound I had with my original Laney LC15 because all three amps were of the same Class AB. I asked how could that be as the AC 30 is Class A and the 15w Laney's are Class AB. Is it possible that my AC 30's, which I have owned a few of down the years, were not a Class A tube amps after all ?? if the sound is anything to go by I tend to believe him. The CUB12 arrived a couple of days ago and it does match the old LC15 sound and my current AC 30. I'm sure the tech minded members here will be able to throw some light on this.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jul 12, 2019 16:02:14 GMT
The supplier is correct, they are all class AB.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by barryjh on Jul 12, 2019 16:12:00 GMT
Thanks for clearing that up Charlie. I just did a quick google and there has been some previous speculation.
Regards,
Barry
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Post by garystrat on Jul 12, 2019 20:59:09 GMT
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Post by barryjh on Jul 12, 2019 22:08:57 GMT
Hi Gary. Thanks for the link.
Most of the detail in Class A Vs AB can be hard to get to grips but I think I can see why the class A single (1 x EL84) sounds found in <5w tube amps is becoming very appealing and popular even though the more powerful Class AB amps still retain their many fans. The Laney CUB12R (12" spkr) operates at 1w or 15w. Not sure how it does this but the 1w input is still a full and very loud option. It makes me think the 5w Laney Class A must sound very good also. Perhaps yet more options for us Shads/sound fans to consider.
Regards,
Barry
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Post by garystrat on Jul 13, 2019 5:33:12 GMT
Hi Barry, I have had the the Laney Lionheart L5T-112 5 watt for several years, it's a briliant little amp that to my ears is more than capable of excellent Shadows tones! (note, this is a Lionheart not an Ironheart) It's an extremely flexible little amp and there is an additional tone control that works like the VOX cut control, as you say has the right valve set, marine ply cab, a Celestion Greenback G12H and mine is one of the earlier models with a real spring reverb: www.laney.co.uk/products/l5t-112/Regards Gary |
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Post by rogerbayliss on Jul 13, 2019 14:00:11 GMT
Like Gary I also have the Laney Lionheart 5 watt L5 but mine is the head version with reverb. I run it through a 12" Celestion Blue cab and it's very Vox like and very versatile too. I find the tone control Presence needs to be turned well up to get closer to the Vox sound. I put a low gain valve in preamp V1 Pos to keep it cleaner too. Excellent amp nicely finished in Blue with brown leather handle and chrome control panel. L5 Studio Head |
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Post by nessmonst on Jul 13, 2019 15:36:21 GMT
Hello everyone
Like Barry I have this Laney amp which I think is a great. Mine is the reverb version —the LC15R.
I have tried 2 separate examples but found both to be very ‘hissy’ at any appreciable volume—kind of like a frying pan in the background.This sort of spoils it for me ergo I don’t make as much use of the amp as I otherwise could.Anyone out there have a similar experience? Seems like this is a characteristic of this amp. or am I wrong?
Maybe this is a question for Charlie—is there any mod that would reduce this background hiss without sacrificing the otherwise excellent tonality?
Any suggestions/solutions welcomed from all.
Regards
David
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jul 14, 2019 14:21:25 GMT
Hi David,
I would have thought it might be worth trying to fix it but if 2 different examples are both noisy then maybe not.
I haven't tried this model myself.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by barryjh on Jul 14, 2019 16:44:55 GMT
David Hello ..
I must say that I never had any noticeable level of noise from the LC15 which I used for the best part of 20yrs. The only noise I hear from the CUB12r is a very low hum which I have to have my ear next to the cabinet. A very well known producer of Shadow music BT's first put me onto the LC15 yrs ago heard it many times on his demo tracks I'm sure.
Roger ... the CUB12R also has a presence control .. the stock speaker is an HH which is fine but I can't resist upgrading to the G12H Heritage soon.
Regards,
Barry
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Post by scanners on Jul 15, 2019 6:46:31 GMT
To my knowledge Class A amps have one valve doing all the work like early guitar amps the rest are class AB Transistor and modeling amps are class D except the Boss Katana which is class AB which I’m not sure how that works
Matthew
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Post by garystrat on Jul 15, 2019 8:15:27 GMT
Hi Matthew,
Using the the link to thread I posted above, my understanding is that with Class A the tube are operating in a different part of their operating zone to Class A/B, Class A produces more harmonic content, but at less power!
What he is saying is that that the true Class A definition is based on the measured operating curve of the power valve.
I believe the point from the chart at the bottom is that given the type of power tube configuration, as a rule of thumb one would expect it to be Class A/B at those given outputs (and above of course). However, the second point is that even below those ratings there are other factors which determine a true Class A amp, whilst a single ended configuration is normally Class A, this is not always the case.
The main difference being that Class A produces more even harmonic content, but as previously stated at lower power!
Beyond that he seems to make the point that both can sound great depending on your preferences.
I think what you are possibly confusing is the hybrid technologies of valve enhanced solid state amps and some pedals, much of which are based around modelling technologies. In this situation valves where applicable are mostly under driven to provide some the tube characteristics.
Regards
Gary
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Post by barryjh on Jul 15, 2019 11:56:12 GMT
Hi Gary .. I did mention what is maybe a general confusion to me so … in my simple thoughts, given the input threads above, my understanding is that a sound wave form contains negative curve and positive curve and when these are split between two vlvs and sent to "A" (positive) "B" (negative) that is Class AB config. When the full wave form is sent to a single valve it becomes Class A which limits the vlvs power headroom. So, I think distribution of the wave thro separate vlv config (AB) allows for higher headroom (louder amps) but this subject is way outside my pay grade. I do understand there may be an audible difference in the harmonics (Class A Vs Class AB). Now, does this throw any spanner into works regard our perception of "that sound" given the Shads amps were Class AB.? my understanding of this subject is very limited to say the least.
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Post by garystrat on Jul 15, 2019 15:30:47 GMT
Hi Barry, To be perfectly honest at that level it’s above my pay grade too, in some respects the article didn’t cover the basics of what I had previously read up about Class A some time ago when I purchased my L5T-112, that it’s normally a single ended design with the bias set to run hot 100% (or close to) at all times. Rather than bumble my way through a Dr Bob’s explanation of this, this link explains it all pretty well: reverb.com/news/what-is-a-class-a-amp-anyway-the-truth-behind-myths-and-misconceptionsHope this helps, but if you really want to get into the waveform side of it, there are several articles on the web, here is a link to one of them: www.electronics-tutorials.ws/amplifier/amplifier-classes.htmlThat parts a little too deep for me I’m afraid! LOL Regards Gary |
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jul 15, 2019 17:47:46 GMT
The upper and lower parts of the waveform are not designated A and B. If that were the case, class B amps wouldn't reproduce the whole waveform.
Class A can be push pull. Both sides are biased so that each half is reproducing the whole signal, top and bottom, until of course the whole thing runs out of headroom.
Any symmetrical push pull output stage would normally cancel even harmonics, simply because even harmonics are only generated from asymmetrical waveforms. Any harmonics that are in the signal already from the preamp stages will not be cancelled. Single ended stages can add even harmonics, and also any other harmonics.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by brightcaster on Jul 15, 2019 18:20:05 GMT
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Post by scanners on Jul 16, 2019 0:37:56 GMT
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