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Post by banjofive on Oct 16, 2019 8:50:36 GMT
First can I say that i am new to electric guitars after playing bluegrass banjo for many years, I own a MIM Stratocaster and recently changed the tremolo for a Wilkinson model...my query is does it need to float to play "Hankish" or is it acceptable with the six screws holding the unit screwed tight to the body thus only allowing the tremolo to go one way???
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 16, 2019 8:57:38 GMT
Hi banjofive, The tremolo must be floating to sound like Hank. To fix the bridge plate to the body you mustn't tighten the 6 screws, you should add springs so there are 5 of them and tighten the claw adjustment until the bridge won't float. This is how Jimi Hendrix's Strats were set up. Regards, Charlie
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Post by banjofive on Oct 16, 2019 10:28:01 GMT
Cheers Charlie, it's greatly appreciated....
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Post by echoman2 on Oct 17, 2019 20:05:37 GMT
Hi Charlie,I am trying to understand what you guys are talking about, but I don’t follow What floating means? can you elaborate
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 17, 2019 20:23:14 GMT
Hi echoman2, A floating tremolo means that the bridge is positioned in such a way by spring tension as well as being able to rock freely so that it can be raised or lowered with the tremolo arm to change pitch up or down from the centred in tune position. Regards, Charlie
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Post by echoman2 on Oct 17, 2019 20:29:33 GMT
Thanks Charlie,I appreciate the quick reply
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Post by scanners on Oct 17, 2019 23:51:22 GMT
Never had any experience with a Wilkinson, they use it on the Brian May red special production models seems to work well. The Floyd Rose on my EVH strat only goes down for lowering the the pitch it won’t let you pull it back to raise pitch Matt
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Post by bor64 on Oct 18, 2019 19:59:07 GMT
I've replaced lot's of tremolo blocks with Wilkinson's. There are a lot of models and variants with zinc or steel block. Common property is quality... I use a few myself for Hanks stuff and all my trems are floating....
Cheers Rob
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Post by musketeer58 on Oct 20, 2019 7:19:53 GMT
Hi Charlie,I am trying to understand what you guys are talking about, but I don’t follow What floating means? can you elaborate Hi Echoman. I just came across this post and in case you havent done it yet, here are a couple of videos that makes it quite easy to do. The first one is for the 6 screw trem and the second one is for the 2 pivot version. Regards Adrian www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUkKZy8U_gAwww.youtube.com/watch?v=7luUzgDwwcs
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Post by banjofive on Oct 21, 2019 9:31:17 GMT
I knew about the videos but didn't have any luck with them as the guitar didn't stay in tune, ...since following Charlie's method the tremolo now works perfectly and the guitar stays in tune. Thanks again Charlie Owen
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Post by sixchannel on Oct 21, 2019 9:36:59 GMT
All totally pointless. I tried floating my trem. It sank.
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Post by frankmarvin on Oct 21, 2019 21:33:34 GMT
I had more luck tremming my float.
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Post by andyj47 on Oct 21, 2019 22:22:20 GMT
shouldn't that be floating your whammy nowadays ?trems became whammys about the time that groups became bands.
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Post by banjofive on Oct 22, 2019 7:35:33 GMT
And bands used to have trumpets,trombones,flutes,...etc?
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Post by scanners on Oct 22, 2019 10:44:27 GMT
Before I started playing guitar I thought you just had to pull that trem arm up to change pitch didn’t realise you had to push it up and down haha Matthew
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Post by frankmarvin on Oct 22, 2019 11:34:05 GMT
What's a band ? ah I get it, its like a noisy group
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Post by bor64 on Oct 23, 2019 5:48:55 GMT
The floating tremolo on the strat is not a 8th wonder of the world! It was invented by Leo Fender...and it was designed to float. I can understand that Jimi H with lower tuning and his dive-bomb gimmicks, used a only down trem....same with Eddie v H.... Jeff Back use a extreme floating trem...but he has a tech backstage... Hank uses a floating trem for about the last 60 years.... members on this site choose to disband a floating trem,because they want or prefer that. Sadly there are also some members, who become almost desperate because they can't get it working.... On this side this topic past-by a few times so if needed/wanted you can find the info to get your trem floating. I can say with my hand on my hart/bible that I can on all my strats(except a mini strat with a very short scale-length) slacken the strings with the arm almost on the pick-guard and let the strings coming back on their normal tuning...and the strat is still in tune! Just follow the guidelines and measurements invented by Leo Fender...
1 Start with a strat without strings and springs, the baseplate is now flat on the body. 2 If not turn all 6 screws up so the are free of the plate and the plate is flat on the body. 3 Turn the two outside screws 1 by 1 slowly down so they touches the plate...when the plate just rise from the body,turn the screw back,so the plate is flat on the body again...then turn the screw up a 1/4 turn(so it's just a smidgen free of the plate)....do the same with the other outside screw. 4 The four inner screws must be free of the plate two full turns! 5 Place your 3 or 4 or 5 springs depending on your string gauge . 6 Tune the guitar and keep the plate 3/32 of the body, measure between top of the body and underside baseplate at the rear of the baseplate... Step 6 can take a few tries and ditto time, because you have keep turning the two screws in the spring-cavity at the back! 7 Check your octave on the 12th fret... needed because the angle of the tremplate change your setup also your string-height! 8 Set up your string-height first and then your string length... 9 Check the tremplate angle again, because 7 and 8, can alter the angle...if needed, turn the two back screws again so you return to 3/32!!! Don't forget to stretch the strings and lubricate the nut(or use a Graphtech Tusq nut) and the string-guides if present.
This worked for Hank, so who am I to doubt... mater of fact it works for me too the last 40+ years!!
Hope this helps a little!
Cheers Rob
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Post by garyallen on Oct 23, 2019 6:45:31 GMT
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Post by glyderslead on Oct 23, 2019 8:10:29 GMT
Hello Garyallen,
Well, thanks for that!,,,,,
You think you had “floating” figured out and sorted out years ago and then someone has to throw a new “wobbly” into the mix!!!!
This is a real thank you........So no more straight trem claws for me. Just got to find the time and patience to do this adjustment.
You learn something new every day
Cheers
Mick
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Post by frankmarvin on Oct 23, 2019 17:27:07 GMT
Thanks Rob, its the simplicity that appeals to me.
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Post by garyallen on Oct 24, 2019 9:58:37 GMT
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Post by nessmonst on Oct 24, 2019 9:58:52 GMT
Again I offer my tried and trusted setup method which I have posted before--worth examining and mastering--like riding a bike--once you 'get it' = no more tuning problems!! Regards David
To add my tuppence worth on setting a floating trem on a strat heres a excerpt from a solution I posted on the site a couple of years ago --and it still works regardless of what way the springs are orientated or how many you use if you get the 'balancing act' right!!
Post by nessmonst on Feb 14, 2013 at 3:12pm
'Everyone seems to have different ideas about setting the floating tremelo on a strat--I've tried all already mentioned but have found that within reason any combination of string gauge and number of springs used will keep in tune using the set up method I use. The 'physics' of this method assumes that if the tension of the springs is set exactly equal to the tension presented by the strings and that there is no strings bind on the nut or bridge (of course this should be checked). If you can achieve this 'happy equilibrium' the guitar should return to pitch after even the most violent whammy exertion!--Heres the secret that works for me!
a)Remove tremelo back cover--remove old strings--loosen the trem springs--ensure that the bridge mounting screws are not so tight as to prevent up/down travel of the bridge--restring with the gauge of your choice and tune the strings well above pitch--This will have the effect of pulling the trem block towards the butt end of the guitar.
b)Insert tremelo arm and pull it upwards-- the tremelo block is now pulled forward (towards the neck). You will observe that there now is a gap between the tremelo block and the guitar body
c)Place a shim of wood or similar material (approximately the full width of the trem cavity)cut to the right size into this gap and release the trem arm so that the trem block is pulled forward again by the tension of the strings and grips the inserted shim fairly firmly
c) Check that the bridge is in the preferred floating position and tune and adjust the action and intonation as desired.
e)Now we have the guitar tuned and set up the way we want but the trem is 'locked'--heres the fiddly bit.On a flat surface--table/bench or whatever lay the guitar on its back.Holding it so that we can access the trem spring screws from underneath (awkward I know ) tighten the screws bit by bit so that the trem block is again pulled towards the neck and the shim slips/falls out.If the guitar is set up to your taste keep the shim for possible future use.
If you have done this correctly you should now find that your string /spring tension are equal and provided that there is no nut/bridge string binding.You can now wobble away and the tuning should return to exact pitch. I have been able to set up many strat trem type guitars with differing string gauges/number of springs and using this method where even dive bombing and severe use of the trem leaves the tuning unaffected.
This set up is harder to explain than actually do--and of course it goes without saying never force anything in its application.'
Tuneful wobbles to all David
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Post by DaveC on Oct 24, 2019 13:58:20 GMT
Whenever the bridge is free-floating (and not deflected by the arm) then the total tension of the springs will be exactly the same as the total tension of the strings.
This is why adjusting the claw (and then returning the strings to "in-tune") only changes the equilibrium/balance position of the bridge .
The springs -- regardless of their number, strength, or position -- do not alter the tension in the strings or the bridge position. Altering the springs only changes the spring "rate" i.e. ease of deflection.
DaveC
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Post by philc on Oct 24, 2019 22:26:16 GMT
Jeff Becks guitar has a piece machined off the tremolo block so that it will lower with an extra note, Jimi Hendrix used a floating tremolo.
Phil
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 25, 2019 1:20:12 GMT
Hi Phil, Jimi Hendrix's tremolo bridge plate was flat to the body so he never pulled it above pitch and it would stay in tune if a string broke. I played Strats much the same way for a long time back in the late 60s and 70s. Regards, Charlie
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Post by philc on Oct 25, 2019 6:54:19 GMT
Hi Charlie, of course you are right about the plate, what I meant to say was that he did experiment with the tremolo on recordings of certain songs, but it was mostly downward pushes as on "Little Wing", sorry for the confusion Phil
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Post by garystrat on Oct 25, 2019 8:02:24 GMT
I agree with much of what Rob says, the floating tremolo is part of a system that benefits from everything being properly aligned and lubricated. I use a very light touch of 3 in one oil smeared on the bridge components to avoid sweat deterioration, plus a further dab with a cotton bud where the string passes over the saddles, then something like Planet Waves D’Addario Friction Remover on the nut slots and under side of string trees.
When it come to setting the floating action I follow the Fender recommendation with the bridge plate being 3.2 mm spacing from the back of the plate to the guitar body. I achieve this by using a spacer of the correct thickness (something that won’t scratch the top of the guitar), rough it out and then progressively tune and adjust the claw and springs so that the bridge plate very lightly clamps the spacer evenly across the back and then simply remove the spacer. I find this gives not only the correct height for smooth pivotal action, but also accurate left to right alignment across the back of the plate.
Gary
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Post by bor64 on Oct 25, 2019 8:22:18 GMT
Again I offer my tried and trusted setup method which I have posted before--worth examining and mastering--like riding a bike--once you 'get it' = no more tuning problems!! Regards David To add my tuppence worth on setting a floating trem on a strat heres a excerpt from a solution I posted on the site a couple of years ago --and it still works regardless of what way the springs are orientated or how many you use if you get the 'balancing act' right!! Post by nessmonst on Feb 14, 2013 at 3:12pm 'Everyone seems to have different ideas about setting the floating tremelo on a strat--I've tried all already mentioned but have found that within reason any combination of string gauge and number of springs used will keep in tune using the set up method I use. The 'physics' of this method assumes that if the tension of the springs is set exactly equal to the tension presented by the strings and that there is no strings bind on the nut or bridge (of course this should be checked). If you can achieve this 'happy equilibrium' the guitar should return to pitch after even the most violent whammy exertion!--Heres the secret that works for me! a)Remove tremelo back cover--remove old strings--loosen the trem springs--ensure that the bridge mounting screws are not so tight as to prevent up/down travel of the bridge--restring with the gauge of your choice and tune the strings well above pitch--This will have the effect of pulling the trem block towards the butt end of the guitar. b)Insert tremelo arm and pull it upwards-- the tremelo block is now pulled forward (towards the neck). You will observe that there now is a gap between the tremelo block and the guitar body c)Place a shim of wood or similar material (approximately the full width of the trem cavity)cut to the right size into this gap and release the trem arm so that the trem block is pulled forward again by the tension of the strings and grips the inserted shim fairly firmly c) Check that the bridge is in the preferred floating position and tune and adjust the action and intonation as desired. e)Now we have the guitar tuned and set up the way we want but the trem is 'locked'--heres the fiddly bit.On a flat surface--table/bench or whatever lay the guitar on its back.Holding it so that we can access the trem spring screws from underneath (awkward I know ) tighten the screws bit by bit so that the trem block is again pulled towards the neck and the shim slips/falls out.If the guitar is set up to your taste keep the shim for possible future use. If you have done this correctly you should now find that your string /spring tension are equal and provided that there is no nut/bridge string binding.You can now wobble away and the tuning should return to exact pitch. I have been able to set up many strat trem type guitars with differing string gauges/number of springs and using this method where even dive bombing and severe use of the trem leaves the tuning unaffected. This set up is harder to explain than actually do--and of course it goes without saying never force anything in its application.' Tuneful wobbles to all David David, All valid info....there's only one downside....not every strat had the same routing measurements in the cavities. Also the thickness of the tremblock can vary between brands and lines MIM vs MIA,bullet strat vs classic vibe etc... So you have to make for all of those a different block! Off course when you've one strat... The method I described works on all strats 6 screw and 2 pivot trem, Squier, Custom Shop or a misty China brand 3/32 is 3/32! Above all it's invented by Leo the inventor of the guitar! Cheers Rob
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Post by banjofive on Oct 25, 2019 8:37:06 GMT
Mmmm....after all the suggestions and opinions I'm wondering if I should have stuck to the banjo....,😁
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Post by bor64 on Oct 25, 2019 9:49:00 GMT
The crooked spring-claw...they forget,your putting more strain to some of the screws... It will bring more wear on the screws and the holes on the base-plate. Use this system on a thin trem-block in Chinese strat with soft metal screws... That Carl use a very quickly wobbly strem and he grabs the handle only when he needed it. Try this setup and holding the trem almost constantly like Hank... well good luck with that! Charlie played also Hanks strat and he can tell you his trem isn't that wobbly! On Hanks 3 main strat the "CS" ones, with different string gauges, they react very slightly different because of the different string/spring tension/balance. I've checked the springs on Hanks strat...and no angled claw or some spring mounted on a none aligned hook on the spring-claw!! Cheers Rob
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