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Post by 'Big Bose Man' on Nov 29, 2010 15:21:09 GMT
Try as I do there's no way i can get even close to Hank's sound. I consider myself to be a reasonable player and very able to play most,if not all of The Shadows tracks but I can't for the life of me get near Hank's sound/tone. (Just about everyone I've heard on this site can manage to get much closer than I can). I have two US Strats, a 2003 standard and the 2004 50th Anniversary Deluxe. My amp is the Fender Blues Junior, and my only effects consist of a Line 6 PodXT and a PodXT Live that I use when performing instrumental gigs. The sound from my gear is actually quite good but for my Shadows tracks it would be nice to sound a little more like the real thing, ie the 'master'. I'm at present looking to purchase a Zoom g2.1u or the Yamaha Magic Stomp mk2 (and then purchase Charlie's Patches) which would obviously help. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards. Rod.
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Post by noelford on Nov 29, 2010 15:43:27 GMT
I use a Pod X3 Pro ( and before I upgraded to that, an XT Live) set up to model a Vox AC15. For the echoes I use an Alesis Quad GT with Charlie's EFTP. However, I run all this into an Atomic 112/50, which is basically a power amp with no tone controls, relying on the modeller to supply the tone. Running into a normal amp is always going to colour the tone from the pod unless (as you may already do) you don't use the amp modelling. Using a Custom Shop Masterebuilt '56 Strat, I think I get a pretty decent tone for Shads stuff though, I must confess, I'm not one of those people who slavishly want to copy HBM right down to the finest detail!
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Post by ubique on Nov 29, 2010 15:45:17 GMT
Hi Rod. Welcome to the forum and you've find the right place to get all the help you need. Like you, I could never find the right sound, having tried various pedals and boxes over the years, including the PodXT. I know there are quite a few members who use Line6 equipment and they get excellent sounds but for me something was lacking. I would suggest listening to some of the old sound files as most members list what equipment they used to record them. I joined the forum last July and the G2Nu/G21Nu with Charlies patches were highly recommended. I bought the G2Nu, loaded up the patches and, at last, a sound I am totally happy with! I decided against the G21Nu as I heard the volume pedal was'nt that easy to use. There is a stickied thread under the General section where Charlie lists the equipment he provides patches for, in his order of preference for achieving 'that sound'. Hope this helps a bit. If you have any more questions, ask away, we're a friendly bunch and I'm sure you will get lots more advice and help from other members. Best regards. Neil
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Post by harley on Nov 29, 2010 16:22:33 GMT
Hi Rod
as Noel and Neil have said, there is a vast pool of experience in all things "Hank" on this forum and EFTP is without doubt the biggest single factor in achieving the sound we are all looking for. I, like Noel, like the sound i have and dont spend too much time fine tuning. I know im never going to sound exactly like Hank so im more than happy to settle for something quite similar. When im working im often complimented on my instrumental sound and although i know its not right, to most peoples ear, and in a pub or club with all that background noise, it certainly seems to work. I have zoom G2.1u, magicstomp and a quad Gt, all with EFTP and all sound fine in my humble opinion. i play straight into a pa so i use my zoom purely as an amp sim and volume pedal but if for any reason the quad should die the zoom is more than good enough to take over on its own. the magicstomp is a spare but you can never have too many toys eh ;-)
regards Ian
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Post by 'Big Bose Man' on Nov 29, 2010 18:24:43 GMT
Hi Noel, Neil and Ian, I think i'm going to like this site. Looks as though we're all singing from the same hymn sheet. Thanks for your really clear and helpful advice. Obviously when I decide upon which effects pedal to buy and have Charlie's EFTP installed on it there should be a big difference to my 'Hank' sound. Don't get me wrong I do like the sound that I'm getting a the moment but when I play numbers from the Hank and The Shadows catalogue I would like to be 'a little closer' to their sound. I will continue to experiment with the gear I have at the moment until such time as I decide on my choice of effects pedal. Any advice/preference re: which pedal to purchase would be much appreciated. Thanks again to everyone, kind regards, Rod
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Post by twang46 on Nov 29, 2010 19:34:33 GMT
Hi Rod & welcome to the site ;D For starters I would suggest one of the Zoom models (which you are already aware of) straight into the Fender & see what you think of the sound that you get. Remember that in the "early days" that was all that was used in the recordings ie :- guitar, echo, amp, miked into recorder (apart from a degree of reverb from the engineer) After trying that then if you still feel the need to add more to the sound, you always have the Line 6 gear. There are of course many other different types of echo/effects units that Charlie can supply patches for Good luck & welcome to the "madhouse" that is the world of vintage echo effects Cheers Dick.
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nighthawk
Member
If only playing the guitar was this easy
Posts: 217
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Post by nighthawk on Nov 29, 2010 20:42:40 GMT
Hi Rod, I have a Zoom G2.1u and am happy with it. They are great value on the well known auction site at present because of the new G2.N series being released. They are worth it just for the usb interface and Cubase LE software.
Les
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Post by gerryhank on Nov 29, 2010 20:58:26 GMT
Hi Rod I am using classic 50,s Strat through a peavey classic 30 and an Alesis q2 EFTP but i am using 13 guage strings on the strat and i feel that is as close as i can get to the sound, and many people have told me that the sound i get is incredible, i know that 13 guage strings are very heavey but when Hank done these tunes thats all they had, i also use 11 guage for Hanks more modern tone on my Hank marvin custom made strat , i hope this helps
Gerrystrat
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Post by 'Big Bose Man' on Nov 29, 2010 20:58:31 GMT
Hi Dick, The 'madhouse house' seems fine to me! I know exactly where you're coming from when you talk of the 'early days', you see back in 62/63 my gear comprised of a Gretsch Tennessean and Burns Black Bison into a Watkins Copycat Echo into the Vox AC30 (spent many a happy hour splicing pieces of tape). Unfortunately some 'nice people' broke into our band practise room and stole ALL my gear plus the bass guitarist's Black Bison. The band folded in '64 and it's only approx. 4 years ago that I bought myself a couple of guitars and start to learn to play again. (Looking for the lost years I suppose). Back to the main topic I think I may go for the Zoom G2.1u and see what I can do with it. If it's of interest to you, or anyone else in the 'madhouse', I could upload maybe a couple of numbers that I've recorded just to let you here the sort of sound i'm getting my gear at the moment.( If i can work how to upload!) Many thank for your comment/advice Dick, regards. Rod.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Nov 29, 2010 21:19:22 GMT
Hi Rod, Welcome to the site. You can upload sound files to a site such as 4shared, and then link to it from a post on this site. Proboards does not host files as such, it can only link to them. Regards, Charlie
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Post by jimmyc on Nov 29, 2010 22:04:06 GMT
Hi Rod and welcome to the site I have been using my US Vintage 57 strat thru a magicstomp loaded with Charlies EFTP and straight in to a Fender Blues Junior for a while and have been really pleased with the results. I think the real key is getting Charlies patches as I found this revolutionised the sound I got. I will try to post the settings for the amp that I found best as soon as possible. Regards Jim
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Post by harley on Nov 29, 2010 22:27:57 GMT
Hi Rod
where are you roughly? dont be too precise with your answer. i was just thinking there may be opportunities for you to hear or maybe even try some of these units before you buy them
cheers Ian
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Post by jimmyc on Nov 30, 2010 21:39:03 GMT
Hi Rod
Here are the Fender Blues Jr settings I found good : Reverb 0 Master 10 Mid 7 Bass 7.5 Treble 2.8 Vol 4.8
I had my guitar volume set on about 9 although you may need to experiment with this.
Hope this helps,
Regards
Jim
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Post by 'Big Bose Man' on Dec 1, 2010 11:15:05 GMT
Hi Jim, Thanks eversomuch for the 'Blues Junior Settings'. I'll most certainly give them a try. By the way my Zoom G2.1Nu arrived today - it should help me to capture the 'Sound' i'm searching for. (Have also asked Charlie for details re: EFTP.) Thanks again for your advice Jim, I'll let you know how I get on once i've got to grips with my new 'toy'. Kind regards. Rod.
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Post by loujones12 on Dec 1, 2010 13:07:03 GMT
Hi Rod. Well its Called the HOLY GRAIL!!! ive been at it, the sound for years. and only jut got there. close!!! recently i just took out the Line 6 Rack, boss m50 pedal board toneworks and other numerous gadgets. and hundreds of dollars later.!!!! and just got a Yahmaha Magic Stomp. thats all i got working in line right now. and its the closest ive come to getting Very Near the Holy Sound. Charlie and the Gang on here have helped a lot, given me more confidence. Just Tweek your Gear small amounts at a time, otherwise you'll go nutts... Regards Lou
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Post by gerryhank on Dec 1, 2010 13:41:44 GMT
all the people on this site seem to be looking for THAT SOUND, i said in my post to try an A class valve amp ie Peavey classic 30 a USA STRAT and a Q2 with EFTP settings and you wont get much better ,a nd it wont take years of trying and thousands of pounds , BUT IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THROWING MONEY AWAY THEN THATS OK, i,m not trying to be clever but its just i hate to see good money going to waste when its so simple to achieve, oh i forgot to mention to use 13 guage strings or 12,s if you cant handle 13,s straight away LOLLOLLOL
Gerry
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2010 18:44:31 GMT
Hi Rod,
Welcome to the site; you'll find a lot of help here, all given willingly, and there's a lot of friendly discussion too.
It's interesting to read the replies given so far, of which none seem yet to have mentioned that an important component of Hank's sound is the way he plays. In simple terms, to sound like Hank you must also play like Hank. The magic is in the fingers !!
By that I don't mean that you need to be able to play every track note perfect, but what you do need to do is pick the strings in the same way, finger the notes at the same places and, above all, be very adept with the use of the tremolo.
I've always found that a good way for beginners to start is to play along with Hank and try and 'mimmic' his style of playing.
As for kit, well I have said this time and time again - people spend far too much time giving up on one piece of kit before trying another, but the 'secret' is knowing how to get the best from the kit you have.
OK, if you have the money then there are combinations of guitar/effects/amps that will almost get you to the 'Holy Grail' at the blink of an eye (although absolute perfection takes a little longer). However, you don't need to spend a fortune to come acceptably close - a standard Strat will do - but you do need heavy strings with a wound third - 13-56 or 12-52. Any of Charlie's EFTP echo systems will give you pretty much the right effects, and a decent Vox valve amp - an AC15 or better still an AC30.
I'll be openly and perhaps contraversially critical by saying that most people probably have never taken the time to sit down and scientifically and methodically work through the sound comparison process to find out exactly what elements contribute to a particular sound on a particular track. Comparisons are often made on what they remember hearing, not necessarily on what they are hearing. Sound samples should be compared side by side but are often not.
Trends come and go as to what might be the 'magic' indgredient. There isn't one !! It's simply a matter of listening carefully and working it out step by step particularly, as I said, to Hank's playing style.
Good luck in your quest !
Cheers
Ian
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nighthawk
Member
If only playing the guitar was this easy
Posts: 217
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Post by nighthawk on Dec 1, 2010 19:04:13 GMT
Hi Rod, Have you had chance to try your Zoom yet?
Les
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Post by andystrat on Dec 1, 2010 19:43:31 GMT
Used Mex Strat, £349. Peavey Classic 30 w Amp, £399 used, Q2 used, £400 or Zoom G2 1NU with EFTP. About £1150? with Q2 and £800 with Zoom G2 1NU.
I have the Zoom GNX 3000 and using Charlie's guide I have a pretty close tone. Baring in mind I am using a Squire and Fender Frontman 15w amp. Going to try 11's on it as 10's are still a little bright.
You can get THAT SOUND for a lot less than you think though as Gerry said. A Class A amp without doubt is my first new buy, not even thinking of changing the guitar until I have the right amp.
Cheers
Andy
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Post by 'Big Bose Man' on Dec 2, 2010 14:15:02 GMT
Hey you guys, What a response, you certainly look out for one another. I now have my Zoom G2.1Nu - I've just installed Charlie's patches and I'm ready to 'pass go'. (Unfortunately I can't collect the £200 - but won't be going to jail either!). After I've sorted myself out (ie disconnect and move some of my gear around and to one side) i'll power things up and start experimenting - There could be a PODXT or PODXT LIVE appearing on the well known auction site shortly! Thank you all for your invaluable help and advice and hopefully my future uploads may just include some of The Shadows numbers. Just for ref. amongs others I have two US Strats (one Standard and a 50th Anniversary Deluxe) Fender Blues Junior Amp, with Pods. ('Toys For Boys') and A ZOOM! For all you Burns fans out there, just to let you know that I will be taking charge of my Burns 'Gold Dream' when it ready in January . Had a Black Bison back in '63 - always promised myself I get a Burns again. Lets hope it's not a 'very expensive' mistake! - I'm sure I'll love it. Thank you all once again for all your advice. Rod.
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Post by rosemary on Dec 3, 2010 9:57:10 GMT
Hi Rod I've only very recently purchased a Zoom G2.1Nu unit and Charlie's patches and couldn't be happier. My amp is only a MicroCube but it's fine for me as I'm pretty much still a beginner. I also had a try of the volume pedal and got the desired effect pretty quickly - as well as I can use the Boss volume control anyway - I still need to perfect the technique. Best wishes Rosemary
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Post by mrbean12 on Nov 24, 2018 12:57:47 GMT
Hi I have just purchased a Quad 2 I have no manual & no clue how to use this unit. The unit comes on then I am stuck, I am trying to get the Shadows EFTP settings up on the Display can you please help.
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Post by sixchannel on Nov 24, 2018 13:55:20 GMT
Hi I have just purchased a Quad 2 I have no manual & no clue how to use this unit. The unit comes on then I am stuck, I am trying to get the Shadows EFTP settings up on the Display can you please help. Quad2's,as sold,did not have EFTP in them. EFTP were/was a set of patches, created by our Charlie Hall, which you could purchase. They are AFAIK no longer available. A FREE Manual for Alesis Q2 is available from www.manualslib.comHTH Ian
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Post by scanners on Nov 25, 2018 23:06:36 GMT
Welcome aboard, like everyone I had no idea what echo Hank used for his sound, I first read in a magazine that Hank used multi tap echo and for Wonderful land the third repeat was louder. I did more research on the internet and discovered EFTP and Charlie Matthew
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Post by Charlie Hall on Nov 26, 2018 18:32:42 GMT
Welcome aboard, like everyone I had no idea what echo Hank used for his sound, I first read in a magazine that Hank used multi tap echo and for Wonderful land the third repeat was louder. I did more research on the internet and discovered EFTP and Charlie Matthew Hi Matthew, The third repeat is the quietest of the 4 heads and the fourth is the loudest (usually but also depending on unit's settings). Regards, Charlie
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Post by scanners on Nov 26, 2018 20:42:43 GMT
Yeah Charlie I remember early on asking about his sound a guy in a shop told me it’s reverb with one repeat he tried to sell me a Marshall amplifier with built in effects. Ironically they sold me a AC 30 that blew valves every other week cost me a fortune in repairs he said I was playing it too much that’s why, till I found an amp tech who found out it had faulty wiring from the factory Just my luck Matthew
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