Hank B Marvin- King of The Low C!

[jay]

....am referring of course to Atlantis and that wonderful first note of the melody played at A3. I've loved that note since I first heard it but cannot reproduce its quality...yet...maybe never?

It's only played twice (as a dotted half note) and the A string is not used again (unless you choose to play the D there instead of the open 4th string).....

Thing is I'm happy with most of the rest of the piece so all other things (guitar,amp, etc.) are working for me but.... every time I hit this one note I'm not happy with how it sounds. I'm thinking of changing just this one string to see if that makes a difference.

Any thoughts?

Oh, when I said I was happy with most of the rest of the piece I was not referring to the transition to the end section....this comes immediately after the last muted section...where after playing the F on G10 he hits the G on D5 after flipping the pick-up switch from bridge to neck (it seems) with vibrato...is this not impossible I ask myself?

How do you manage this? Forget about changing pick-ups?...but then it doesn't sound right to me. Are we hearing some sort of Abbey Road trickery here?

jay (perplexed)

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Jay,
It's probably not the string. Try picking it more lightly and between the middle and neck pickup. Add a little vibrato effect from the tremolo arm.
Abbey Road trickery indeed at the end. The two parts were recorded separately. Maybe you could miss out the G10 note and change pickups then instead.
Regards,
Charlie

[jay]

.....thanks for that Charlie. The vibrato is quite subtle after the initial note attack.

Glad to hear about the Abbey Rd thing. I'm wondering how you know that the two parts were recorded separately?

Will try missing out the F as suggested...every second counts!

jay

[frankmarvin]

Hi Jay, well Charlie is the sound guru , but I was led to believe that a different echo pattern was used on the lower A3 melody than the muted intro part ( apart from the obvious pick-up change) , in fact some believe that 3 different echo patterns were used in the song: Also try the G on A10 ( bridge with one finger from the F on G10 ) and the next two on 8th fret seems to be much easier : Just my two pennyworth :

Cheers Frank:

[jay]

Hi Frank......three different echo patterns! I don't think my ear/brain circuitry can begin to detect this......

My reason for going for the G on D5 is to get to the B string for the sliding finale....

Any YT /mp3 recommendations to look at?

jay

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Jay,
I can hear the overlap at the changeover. Impossible to do any other way. The damped sections and the verses may have been done separately too.
I don't think the echo is different but the amount of echo may have been altered for the different sections.
Regards,
Charlie

[jay]

Charlie.....after my last post I went back and had another listen and yes I can now hear that the last note of the muted section (the G at G12) is overlapped by the G one octave lower (D5) and therefore the two sections are separate recordings and impossible to duplicate live.

I shall now omit both of the last notes in the end section (F and G) and use one beat to switch to the bridge pick-up before hitting the low G in time.

It now seems that the intro section was recorded separately (and used again at the end of the piece) from the main tune with the benefit of being able to alter the echo/reverb settings for each if desired.

Thanks v. much for helping me feel less frustrated!

jay

[frankmarvin]

Hi Jay: The idea of the 2 or 3 different echo patterns was put forward by Paul Rossiter (TVS3 Bloke) Unless I misunderstood what he meant:
The G note on A10 followed by the next two notes in 8th fret is the only way I can play that part without omitting any notes, difficult to explain in text:

Frank:

[abstamaria]

Jay, this was subject of discussion before, but Charlie's suggestion of dropping a hate is a new one. I will try that. At one show, we were tempted to have a 3rd guitarist play the muted sections. Might just do that, too.

You will have noticed that the muted sections come from one of the channels, & not the center as the main melody.

Andy

[Tone]

I stand to be corrected but doesn't Hank quickly flip the pickup selector from neck to bridge for the ending. I think it can be seen on the Final and Reunion Tour DVDs (but I haven't checked)?

Also, I have seen players at Club meetings do it. But I can't!

Cheers.

Tony

[frankmarvin]

Yes Tony, your right, I have seen that also:
Frank:

[abstamaria]

I know someone said it could be done, but I can't as well. If you listen to the piece on headphones, you'll most likely conclude the damped portion was overdubbed. It appears as a different guitar coming either from the right or left.

I think that for the Final and Reunion DVDs, Hank had the pickup selector piece locked in the bridge position, regardless of the piece. There was a discussion on why that was so; the reason I recall is that switching PUs played havoc on Hank's volume over the PA system in those large auditoriums, so it was deemed better to adjust the tone offstage.

As a related aside, in a Ventures forum, a Ventures diehard cited Hank's failure to switch PUs in those shows as proof that he wasn't as concerned with his sound as Nokie Edwards is. Why, Nokie flicks his PU switch around all the time! That was quite amusing.

Andy

[Charlie Hall]

As far as I remember Hank always switched tones as described when playing Atlantis on his solo tours. Not sure that he was able to do that exactly at the discussed moment in the tune though. I always thought there was some sort of necessary compromise but I can't remember exactly what now. It worked well enough for live so it was OK.
Regards,
Charlie

[abstamaria]

You're absolutely right, and I was wrong. I looked at a YouTube video of a 1989 show, and there Hank switches PUs. But he changed the ending a bit, so it is difficult to see how or if he changed for the outro. Maybe in the other videos it will be clearer.

Andy

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Andy,
I wasn't saying you were wrong, because I thought I had remembered someone else saying that Hank didn't change pickups on Atlantis more recently. Just clarifying what I can remember.
Regards,
Charlie

[jay]

Frank.....Paul R is Emeritus Professor of Echology and therefore unlike anyone else..ha!

Playing the G on A10 is fine...it's the preceding F on G10 which I have to leave out, so on the final beat of the bar in question (current occupant...an F) I switch from neck to bridge on the beat and come in on the low G (either at D5 or A10) and no one but the likes of us will notice. It does mean that I can now achieve the right sound for the finale......

Andy.......you're right. The muted sections appear in my left lughole only. I thought I had found an easy backing track when I turned the stereo balance control all the way to the right and got no intro....but then HBM came storming in with his low C....ah well it's always nice to hear it......

Been practicing the switch from neck to bridge as previously mentioned and it definitely can work plus grabbing the trem arm all in one beat.....worked up from painfully slow to very slow then slow etc.


jay

[frankmarvin]

Hi Jay, got guitar out to check my previous ramblings and I cheat a bit,
and play F on G10 and G on A10 THEN flick the pickup switch to bridge and play D8 and G8 then continue up on g string: just the way I play it, probably wrong but it sounds ok: At least it makes it possible for a mere mortal to play

covered in dust from guitar , Frank:

[carl c]

Hi
Just been reading these posts and maybe I have been playing this wrong.
After the last muted section I play F on G10 then an open G - flick switch to G3 then B4 Then slide finish. The tone of the open G might depend on wound G or plain G.
Regards Carl.
Then again I might be having a senior moment.

[frankmarvin]

Well, I think between us we have covered just about every possibility lol , the only other way left is to tie a length of string to the 5 way switch , pass it up behind the guitar and grip it with your teeth, all it then needs is a swift jerk up of the head and *bingo* bridge pup, or is that a move too far ?

Cheers, inventive Frank:

[carl c]

Back to the drawing board Frank !! the string has just pulled the tip off the switch and the string stuck between my teeth, But it works.
Carl

[mojolomjl]

Hi Frank,
As you are not planning on any more gigs maybe Carl could come round and just flick the swith for you ( nobody would know and it would sound perfect ) ;D ;D
Regards,
Maurice.

[frankmarvin]

Maurice, I would NEVER allow anyone to flick MY switch without first being formally introduced, I am sure Carl is a great fellow BUT its going to look silly especially with him having a yard of string dangling from his teeth, I'm sorry ,but you have obviously not thought this through , dont get me wrong, I have nothing against duo's but a dental dangly duo where one half just runs on to flick a switch does NOT in my book constitute a fair and reasonable sharing of the work load, and then of course there is the health and safety at work issue , the string is bound to get damp at some point and with all those electric devices around...... quite frankly it doesn't bare thinking about:

While I appreciate your suggestions , I really do think that you should consider poor Carl a bit more:

Regards, considerate Frank:

[frankmarvin]

Maurice, I would NEVER allow anyone to flick MY switch without first being formally introduced, I am sure Carl is a great fellow BUT its going to look silly especially with him having a yard of string dangling from his teeth, I'm sorry ,but you have obviously not thought this through , dont get me wrong, I have nothing against duo's but a dental dangly duo where one half just runs on to flick a switch does NOT in my book constitute a fair and reasonable sharing of the work load, and then of course there is the health and safety at work issue , the string is bound to get damp at some point and with all those electric devices around...... quite frankly it doesn't bare thinking about:

While I appreciate your suggestions , I really do think that you should consider poor Carl a bit more:

Regards, considerate Frank:

[frankmarvin]

Sorry for repeat dunno what happened, computer stuck then flicked and now duplicated, I think its Carls fault lool

[Bojan Drndic]

At the live concert in 1989 Hank does change pickups, but he plays the muted sections with the middle pickup and then switches over to the bridge . . . my point being that it is easier to switch from middle to bridge than from neck to bridge !!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrbDN9R9rIQ

[carl c]

Hi Frank,
You know us northerners are always ready to help out.
Carl

[carl c]

Hi Bojan,
I have noticed different switching to instrumental tunes,
Way back when I was touring I used different switching to compensate for the different room acoustics but that was my way of dealing with it. I guess we have played tunes in so many different tones.
I did use the middle pickup a lot and used the neck for jazz numbers. but it was the sound of the acoustics in the room that made my decision,
Did Hank do the same I don't know.
Anyway this is my opinion.
Carl

[mojolomjl]

Apr 3, 2013 22:35:08 GMT frankmarvin said:

Maurice, I would NEVER allow anyone to flick MY switch without first being formally introduced, I am sure Carl is a great fellow BUT its going to look silly especially with him having a yard of string dangling from his teeth, I'm sorry ,but you have obviously not thought this through , dont get me wrong, I have nothing against duo's but a dental dangly duo where one half just runs on to flick a switch does NOT in my book constitute a fair and reasonable sharing of the work load, and then of course there is the health and safety at work issue , the string is bound to get damp at some point and with all those electric devices around...... quite frankly it doesn't bare thinking about:

While I appreciate your suggestions , I really do think that you should consider poor Carl a bit more:

Regards, considerate Frank:

Hi Frank,
I wasn't suggesting you form a duo, just having someone there when recording Atlantis to flick your switch for you. I only suggested Carl as he was in on the banter but please feel free to choose anyone of your choice to flick your switch.
Regards,
Maurice.

[frankmarvin]

In an effort to avoid any hint of favouritism, I think I will just weld up the switch :

Cheers Maurice and Carl and thank you for your valuable assistance, my mind is now at rest: I have to go now as they are coming to administer my electric shock treatment shortly:

Cheers, Frank:

[allclaphands]

author=frankmarvin

Cheers Maurice and Carl and thank you for your valuable assistance, my mind is now at rest: I have to go now as they are coming to administer my electric shock treatment shortly:

Hi Frank
That's just terrible is it the AA or RAC is your battery flat
I have a set of jump leads if you want to borrow them.

Concerned
Pete