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Post by derekb on Apr 30, 2015 13:25:34 GMT
Hello, Perhaps Charlie could help me with this please. Have just received my new Echo unit which I have tried but have not yet been able to get it to sound right. I thought that by simply disconnecting my Zoom pedal and connecting the new unit and using the same settings on my amp as before, everything would be great, but it's not. I have a Fender Mustang modelling amp which give excellent result for most amp models and this worked well with my Zoom but not it seems with the new unit. I appreciate that I have probably got to spend some time playing around with the amp until I get what I want and as yet have not had enough time. At one stage, using the settings I had for the Zoom, I had the master control on the amp almost up to max before I got an acceptable level for my room. Clearly not right with a 150W amp !. Also, whilst Charlie's website gives the recommended Patch number for the Shads songs, it doesn't give the pickup settings. Do we assume that we can take them from the EFTP list supplied with that ?. Sorry if I sound a bit dejected- I'm sure it will be sorted. Regards, Derek B.
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Post by bernie on Apr 30, 2015 13:52:10 GMT
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 30, 2015 14:58:28 GMT
Hi Derek, The amp settings for a unit without amp modelling will differ. Have you tried a Vox amp model in the Mustang? Regards, Charlie
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Post by derekb on Apr 30, 2015 15:38:31 GMT
Hello, Thanks Bernie. A great help. regards, Derek B.
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Post by derekb on Apr 30, 2015 15:43:47 GMT
Hello Charlie, Thanks for the reply. I think it's just a question of playing around with the settings and amp selections until I get the right one. One minor irritation however is that the Mustang amp has a built in tuner which is easy to use and which I do use alot. With the Echo unit connected, it won't work !. If I connect the guitar directly to the amp without the Echo unit- it works perfectly. So it seems that in order to use the tuner I have to have the Echo unit unconnected. Don't really understand that as everything worked ok with the Zoom pedal connected. Any ideas ?. Regards, Derek B
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Post by localhero on Apr 30, 2015 15:44:17 GMT
Sadly I did't manage to get a good sound on a Mustang either, after twiddling knobs for hours. My H&C sounded excellent straight into my Vox VT-80 and the AC-4 as well, before plugging directly into the computer and achieving similar results. I would suggest taking everything off the Mustang and starting again at the factory presets, choosing a Vox amp model as Charlie suggests. Try to resist adding bass and treble, just a bit of mid to begin with. If anything I'd try reducing bass & treble. Where do you live, perhaps someone could call round and help.
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Post by derekb on Apr 30, 2015 16:04:57 GMT
Hello, Thanks to Local hero for the reply. I've spent a little bit of time fiddling round with things today but need to spend more time on it. It doesn't actually have a Vox amp- they are called British 60's, 70's or 80's. I live in Bexleyheath, Kent which is SE London and of course would be glad of any help but in the meantime I'll keep playing with it until I get it right. I'm very impressed with the amp overall and comparisons shown on You Tube, show it is extremely difficult to differentiate between many of the modelling amps and the real valve amps in a sound comparison so there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to get the right sound. Regards, Derek B
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Post by localhero on Apr 30, 2015 16:26:32 GMT
OK I remember now a little. You want the 60s British and keep the gain down to avoid distortion. Too far for me as I'm 200 miles north of you, but if you go steady with the tone controls you should get somewhere near. Old Vox amps had no treble & bass, just a CUT to smooth out the harshness. Good luck.
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Post by Steve Reynolds on Apr 30, 2015 16:46:17 GMT
Hello, Thanks to Local hero for the reply. I've spent a little bit of time fiddling round with things today but need to spend more time on it. It doesn't actually have a Vox amp- they are called British 60's, 70's or 80's. I live in Bexleyheath, Kent which is SE London and of course would be glad of any help but in the meantime I'll keep playing with it until I get it right. I'm very impressed with the amp overall and comparisons shown on You Tube, show it is extremely difficult to differentiate between many of the modelling amps and the real valve amps in a sound comparison so there is no reason why I shouldn't be able to get the right sound. Regards, Derek B Hi Derek I'm going to Kent shadows club on next Wednesday, if you still have no luck I can take a look there if your free
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 30, 2015 17:05:08 GMT
Hi Derek, Your tuner won't be able to track the pitch because of the wow and flutter. Let me know if it works when you turn the echo off with the footswitch. Regards, Charlie
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Post by derekb on Apr 30, 2015 18:40:29 GMT
Hello, Thanks to Steve Reynolds for the offer of calling in next Wednesday. I would appreciate that- I'm sure you are more switched on than me ! (Sorry for the pun). I have a funeral to go to on Wednesday morning but I should be back home by mid-afternoon and then at home for the rest of the day.
Thanks, Derek B.
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Post by derekb on Apr 30, 2015 18:41:25 GMT
Hello, Thanks Charlie. I'll give it a go and let you know. Regards, Derek
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Post by derekb on May 1, 2015 14:16:52 GMT
Hello, One for Charlie. Re my Mustang amp and the problems with the tuner not working when the Echo unit is plugged in. I've tried turning off the echo as you suggested and it still did not work. Plugged the guitar directly into the amp again and it worked perfectly !. Any ideas ?. regards, Derek B.
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Post by geofftiny on May 1, 2015 14:25:32 GMT
Hi Derek.
I'm very interested in your experience linking the H&C Echo to the Fender Mustang as I also use one. I have a Mustang 3 v2 and currently use it with a Yamaha Magicstomp with excellent results although I'm thinking about Charlie's new unit.
If it's any help, here's the settings I use to emulate a Vox AC15 Shadows sound - AMP = British Watts - 4x12v cabinet / Gain 2.7 / Vol 10 / Treble 5.9 / Middle 4.9 / Bass 2.8 / Reverb 1.0 / Presence around 1 o'clock
Stomp Box Compressor / Level 92.9% / Thresh 5.8% / Ratio 922 / attach 0.00% / Release 99.6%
The Master Volume on amp works great between 2 & 3 at home, and 3&4 in a hall taking 350 people so still loads of power availavle
My tuner does work with the echo ON, but I always switch it OFF as tuning is quicker and more reliable.
Hope this may help. Let me know how you get on.
Regards, Geoff
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 1, 2015 14:32:36 GMT
Hi Derek, I just tried my Boss TU-12H tuner between my Hall & Collins prototype unit and the amp. The tuner works fine when the echo is turned off. It still works when the echo is on but it wavers because of the wow and flutter so it is useless for tuning like that. I don't know what to say about the built in tuner of the Mustang. Maybe these do it all type amps don't work well with other effects connected. Regards, Charlie
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Post by shadfan4 on May 1, 2015 14:40:12 GMT
So long as the burglars are gone before mid-afternoon then.
Honestly I wouldn't give my cats name on a public forum let alone my address and times when I'm out.
I would consider removing those details and stick with PM's.
Mike.
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 1, 2015 15:34:06 GMT
Derek, If you remove the details as Mike recommends, then please remind us you have done that so Mike can do the same in his post. Regards, Charlie
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Post by shadfan4 on May 1, 2015 15:47:31 GMT
I will do mine now Charlie as your on the case..
Mike.
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Post by derekb on May 1, 2015 18:49:49 GMT
Hello, Thanks to Geoff for the settings he uses on his Mustang amp with his Magicstomp. I've tried these on my amp, and with the new Echo unit theyr'e not much better than I already have. I had a Zoom G2Nu pedal before the new one and the settings I used then were ok but unfortunateley they don't seem to work so well with the new echo. The tuner on the Zoom also worked ok when plugged into the amp as did the tuner in the amp itself so I really don't know what is happening with it. I can get a reasonable sound now but it is nowhere near as good as the one posted by Steve Reynolds, which is what I'm looking for and which I was hoping to get with the new echo unit. Perhaps I have to consider changing amps.!. If I do, I will have the dilemna of finding the right one that will do the job. I don't want an AC30 which is the obvious choice,-too big, that leaves an AC15, the new AC10 or AC4 plus any other makes. I even thought I heard Steve Reynolds say on one of his postings that he used a Blackstar amp- which one I don't know. So there we have it. I'll carry one playing around with the settings on the Mustang but ultimateley it looks as though I'm going to have to get another amp to get the best from the new Echo unit. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be grateful. Thanks, Derek B.
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 1, 2015 19:10:38 GMT
Hi Derek, Your problem is the reverse of what I usually see, which is people having a hard time taming the treble when the Zoom pedals are used. I don't know much about the Mustang amps except I have heard when they are used with the Fender FUSE software there are many more settings available. I don't remember seeing anything about your guitar. What do you have? Regards, Charlie
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Post by derekb on May 1, 2015 19:10:40 GMT
Hello, For the info of Mike. I think I have now deleted my address details as he recommends. Just one point for him however. In giving my address out and saying that I would be at a funeral on Wednesday this didn't necessarily mean that the house was unoccupied, only that I won't be there. !. It won't be unoccupied just that I won't be there for part of the day !. Someone else will be there.! I also have a good security system, land mines planted in the grounds and machine gun posts at each corner !!. regards, Derek B.
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Post by derekb on May 1, 2015 19:23:44 GMT
Hello, Thanks to Charlie for the reply. As well as the Mustang which you correctly say uses Fender Fuse software, I have a Warmoth Strat with Kinman pickups-the ones suggested for the Hank marvin sound. Regards, Derek B
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 1, 2015 19:25:58 GMT
Hi Derek, OK, thanks. There shouldn't be a problem with the guitar then. Have you used the FUSE software, as I understand it is optional? I have no idea if it would help in your case however. Regards, Charlie
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Post by geofftiny on May 1, 2015 20:42:44 GMT
Hi Derek,
Shame the Mustang settings I sent didn't help.
Just confirming the link I use.
Guitar plugs into Magicstomp which outputs into Mustang.
I tried using the Effects loop built into Mustang but result was not satisfactory. Especially when I use a volume pedal.
Best of luck.
Geoff
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Post by geofftiny on May 8, 2015 11:29:54 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Congrats on the unit and all the feedback. Quite an achievement.
I responded to Derek who seemed to have a problem using a Fender Mustang amp with the unit. Looked like a couple of guys had similar problems. I'm keen to buy a unit but want to be sure there are no compatibility problems with my Mustang 3 v2 amp. For the life of me I can't understand why there should be. The magicstomp works very well with my selected amp simulations. So I'm wondering if any progress has been made or you can confirm its OK, or make any suggestions.
I'd be happy to test a unit, or travel and try one if anyone would be kind enough and lives within 50 miles (ish) of Bournemouth.
Kind Regards, Geoff
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 8, 2015 15:16:48 GMT
Hi Geoff, Thanks for your message of support. I am going to look into possible problems with the Mustang amps. I have a feeling the preamp chassis has a ground lift, which won't help matters too well. I also want to try other pedals powered by mains power supplies with the Mustang and see what happens. Derek B will be kept informed of progress, if I am able to solve anything. Best to wait a little while as I try to sort it out. Regards, Charlie
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Post by geofftiny on May 8, 2015 17:30:45 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for quick reply.
If it helps, with my Mustang I have used Zoom G7 with EFTP, Q2, and Q20, as well as Magicstomp - all with mains PSU. All units have performed well, with no unwelcome noise or hum at all volume levels. Hope you'll keep me up to date on any news/ progress asap.
Have a great weekend. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 8, 2015 18:36:19 GMT
Hi Geoff, Thanks for the info, it is helpful. Regards, Charlie
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Post by John Collins on May 9, 2015 4:08:59 GMT
Hi Derek, Sorry to hear you are having problems. Just reading back through your post, at one point you mention that you needed the master vol on the amp turned right up to get any room volume. This would seem to indicate there is a gain problem (loss of gain) somewhere in the chain. This would also explain why the tuner in the amp isn't working. One thing to keep in mind is that the H&C basically has zero gain, with the pots set at the 3 o'clock position. That is, with a guitar plugged into the H&C, the signal at its output will be much the same as the guitar itself. So, when you plug your guitar straight into the Mustang amp, and get a good level, you should also be able to plug the guitar into the H&C, and the H&C output into the Mustang, and get a similar level (have the echo turned off so it's just the dry sound). If there is a level difference with this test, then it's a matter of finding out why. Even try a different cables, if you have spares, I've actually had 1/4" jack that was OK in one socket, but not in another!
Regards, John
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 9, 2015 11:16:32 GMT
Hi John, I have discussed this with Derek. I am going to look at his Mustang amp to try to find out what is going on with these amps. I suspect a possible reason could be that the preamp chassis (or maybe just the input earths) might be earth lifted from the mains earth with a 10 ohm resistor. I have seen other recent Fender amps (including reissues of older models) with this feature. It basically solves hum loop problems within the amp itself, but I think could cause issues with other gear. Regards, Charlie
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