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Post by Cruachan on Jun 13, 2015 12:45:01 GMT
| Music Title | Gain | 31.25Hz | 62.5Hz | 125Hz | 250Hz | 500Hz | 1KHz | 2KHz | 4KHz | 8KHz | 16KHz | | Generic (1) | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | -8dB | -2dB | 0dB or -3dB | 0dB | 0dB | +4dB, +6dB,
+8dB | 0dB | -12dB | Generic (2)
| Between 0dB and +6dB | -12dB | -12db | -8dB | -8dB | 0dB | 0dB | 0dB | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | Apache, Sleepwalk,
Shadoogie | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | -8dB | -8dB | 0dB | +4dB | +4dB | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | | Blue Star | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | -8dB | -8dB | 0dB | +4dB | +4dB | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | | Dance On | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | -10dB | -10dB | -2dB | +6dB | +10dB | +8dB | -12dB | -12dB | | FBI, The Savage, Frightened City, etc. | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | -10dB | -10dB | -2dB | +6dB | +6dB | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | | Wonderful Land | 0dB | -12dB | -12dB | -8dB | -8dB | 0dB | +4dB | +4dB | -6dB | -12dB | -12dB |
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These settings may work well with other Echo units. However, for optimum results, it is recommended that the Caline CP-24 10 Band EQ be used with and positioned after the Hall & Collins Signature Echo unit between guitar and amp in the signal chain. Currently there are 7 empty rows waiting to be filled. Please feel free to submit your own preferred settings and, space permitting*, I will add them to the table. On further reflection, perhaps it would be helpful if you could also state which amp or guitar is being used. This could prove to be an interesting exercise as the intention is to discover just how important the selection of guitar and amp is to achieving the sound you regard as being most musical or closest to your idea of 'that sound'. Also, see Edit below. Please do not include other sound modifying pedals in the chain other than, say, a volume/swell pedal. *If there is a good response, and the remaining rows are used up quickly, then I will consider the addition of further tables until we can see a pattern emerging. However, I think we can see that this may not be necessary. Please give us your feedback. Do any or all of these settings work for you? Have you arrived at your own preferred set of settings? Are you trying these settings with another Graphic Equalizer? If you have some data then do let us know so others can give them a try.Mike Edit: To ensure a more consistent methodology and validity of results I recommend you read this post first: charliehall.proboards.com/post/171973However, you may wish to take into account Erik's advice: charliehall.proboards.com/post/172009/thread followed by Charlie's confirmation before proceeding. |
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Geza
Member
Posts: 88
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Post by Geza on Jun 13, 2015 13:22:25 GMT
Hi Mike,
I like your idea, eventually the list of gears could also be useful once you received all the responses.
But shouldn't you specify which Shadows tune the Caline should be set to? Since even Ronnie Gustafsson modified the settings on his Boss unit depending on which type of Shadows tunes he used it for?
I'm assuming that you did this in Excel, maybe you could grey out the background of the values that mostly never change.
Geza
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 13, 2015 21:44:02 GMT
Hi Mike, I like your idea, eventually the list of gears could also be useful once you received all the responses. But shouldn't you specify which Shadows tune the Caline should be set to? Since even Ronnie Gustafsson modified the settings on his Boss unit depending on which type of Shadows tunes he used it for? I'm assuming that you did this in Excel, maybe you could grey out the background of the values that mostly never change. Geza Hi Geza, You make a very good point. Thanks. I suppose my aim is to try to make this as simple as possible without overcomplicating things for everyone. In fact, I used Wonderful Land as my 'base line' tune and Bridge pickup on my Strat. I marked the opening few bars and played them in a loop while trying to replicate the sound through my Hall & Collins Signature Echo - Caline 10 Band EQ signal chain. Once I established those EQ settings - basically those in Column 2 of the table - I found that all I had to do thereafter was move the Selector Switch on my Strat to engage the Pickup Charlie suggests for each tune in the list* he provided with EFTP. Now this method may not suit everyone, but I find that, while imperfect, it does get me in the ball park. The Hall & Collins Signature Echo does most of the work, the EQ settings then mould the shape of the signal before sending it to the Amp. The Strat Volume Control is always set at 10 (Max) as is the Tone Control for the Bridge Pickup. *This assumes, of course, that most of us will have that list. For those that don't then perhaps we can ask Charlie if he would be prepared to make it available for download by the membership. Otherwise I suggest the appropriate pickup selection is determined simply on a trial and error basis. Shouldn't be too difficult as everything else is already in place. The editing functions of this board's software allows the creation of tables - select the 12th icon from the left. It is somewhat restrictive but it does all I need for now. Regards, Mike |
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Post by milko on Jun 14, 2015 6:24:27 GMT
Hi Cruachan,
Great work! You've obviously put a lot of effort into this.
May I ask:- if column 2 settings are for Wonderful Land; for which tune are the column 3 settings intended?
Also, were you intending these settings before the NORMAL channel of a Vox AC15 C1?
Thanks for your help.
Milko
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 14, 2015 7:38:25 GMT
Hi Milko, My aim is to establish a set of generic settings which only require minor tweaking to satisfy the individual player. Clearly there will be differences as dictated by the equipment used, but a group of settings that get you immediately in the ball park could prove to be invaluable. Indeed many, like me, will probably choose to leave the EQ frequency sliders alone once you are hearing something approximating to 'that sound'. Perhaps best to look at those columns as supplying sets of EQ values which work together to shape the sound we hear as being most musical and closest to 'that magical sound'. The figures in Column 2 were supplied originally by Charlie and Erik (erikMAMS) back in 2011 long before the Caline 10 Band EQ was ever thought of. In my case they happen to get me close to the original recorded 'Wonderful Land' sound using my American Deluxe Strat and Roxlut Amp using the Normal rather than the Bright Channel. Column 3 figures were kindly supplied by Bernie (coburger) in his recent post: charliehall.proboards.com/post/171883/thread and represent his experience using his equipment. I suspect few of us really want to be twiddling and tweaking everytime we change tunes. My hope is that we can produce a range of settings from different players and setups which offer clues to help us each achieve the best settings which generate sounds pleasing to our ears. The end result may not be acceptable to those purists whose sole aim is to accurately reproduce those original recorded sounds. That's perfectly fine, each to his/her own. For the rest of us, the creation of sounds which are both tonally close to those familiar magical sounds seems a much better way to go. After all, we all have individual preferences; we know what we like to hear and achieving sounds which are both familiar and musically pleasant to the ear seems, to me, to be the better objective. In the end, variety is what makes this hobby so captivating and interesting. If we all sounded exactly the same all of the time it would soon get boring. Every tune submitted by members for our listening pleasure is valid as it has been created by someone with a genuine passion for his/her hobby. The fact that their sound and rendition may not be an exact match for the original is, to my mind, largely irrelevant. Close is close enough especially when we are treated to a variety of interesting interpretations. However, none of this would be really possible without the Hall & Collins Signature Echo. For me, that wonderful creation is supplying those vital ingredients necessary for the production of the tonal nuances we are recognising as being the magical quality of sound that has managed to elude us for such a long time. Regards, Mike |
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Post by erikMAMS on Jun 14, 2015 15:55:43 GMT
Hi Mike Just a couple of thoughts. I think I see what you are aiming at with the table. However the relevance of a list of user setting is IMO with little meaning or use unless they are referenced to the gear used (at least the amp) and settings (incl. guitar control settings). Preferably also a indication of the actual sound level normally used – ie bedroom/studio/stage etc (as I think that would make quite a difference on the required settings). Maybe I'm missing something? ........In fact, I used Wonderful Land as my 'base line' tune and Bridge pickup on my Strat. I marked the opening few bars and played them in a loop while trying to replicate the sound through my Hall & Collins Signature Echo - Caline 10 Band EQ signal chain. Once I established those EQ settings ....... On your described procedure I’d said WFL is an obvious/good choice – but not the opening bars IMO. The intro riff is a great reference for the Echomatic 2 wow&flutter effect – because there seems to be no use of the trem (the pitch variation we hear are the Echom2 wow). But for TONE I think the intro is the least useful and representative. The reason is the tone of the intro notes are slightly (but noticeably) different to those of the melody part– they seems brighter and sharper (more than justified by the high register). Have you noticed and considered this? I think the intro vs melody tone difference is because the intro notes are picked in a higher position (between the M-B pickups IMO) whereas the melody – which has “the tone” - is picked in the “normal” position between the N-M (towards the N). Unless you did indeed considered these details when you set up the Caline EQ it could/would have influenced your adjustments. If you didn’t, it would be interesting the see what differences it might bring. I hasten to say, all this is obviously how I hear it – others might disagree. Erik |
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 14, 2015 16:00:34 GMT
I think the opening bars of Wonderful Land are valid for EQ settings, but not on their own. It is necessary to play the main parts of the tune as well before finally deciding on the settings.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 14, 2015 18:44:41 GMT
Hi Erik, Thank you for your further comments. As ever, your input is always helpful and thought provoking. I don't doubt that everything you have said is spot on. However, and respectfully, I would ask you to read again my penultimate paragraph in this post: charliehall.proboards.com/post/171983This is not an exercise in the achievement of perfection as is being expressed by our determination to recreate those sounds of the early 60s as accurately as possible. Yes, we have all the tools, but for many of us, myself included, this is an exercise in futility as there are so many variables which can affect the outcome. However, the recent appearance of the Hall & Collins Signature Echo is, in my experience, giving us a tantalising glimpse of what is now possible in terms of getting much closer to hearing 'that sound'. Furthermore, the Introduction of affordable graphic frequency equalizers like the Caline CP-24 10 Band and the Joyo JF-13 AC Tone are allowing us to reproduce those revered Vox AC30 tones without us having to break the bank and risking our backs into the bargain! I do understand where you are coming from and I have certainly no wish to undermine any ongoing attempts to meet the challenge of reaching for that metaphorical nirvana. However, that is not my purpose. I believe folk like me can now create an acceptable close approximation of those magical sounds sufficient to fulfil our realistic expectations. That's why I have tried to keep this process as simple as possible. Regards, Mike |
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Post by imfrettin on Jun 14, 2015 19:12:22 GMT
Hi Mike
I have been following the threads on the Caline CP-24 and bought one a few weeks ago. I have produced a Table using Microsoft word that maybe of some use to our members. I'm not sure how to load it on this site but if you can send me you email address I will send it to you and you can then decide if it would be useful.
My email address is harold.giblingATntlworld.com
I tried to PM you but must have had a senior moment as it appears I sent it to myself. Old age can be such fun!
Regards
'H'
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 15, 2015 0:06:57 GMT
Hi 'H', Thank you! Erik's post, Geza's suggestion and now your very helpful table has persuaded me to revamp the way the data is presented. Hopefully others will find this to be much more useful. Please note that my original (first) post has been updated: charliehall.proboards.com/post/171955Regards, Mike |
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Post by bernie on Jun 15, 2015 7:06:05 GMT
Hi Mike, I just saw your updated table and compared it with Ronnie Gustafsson's settings that you worked out with effort in this post: charliehall.proboards.com/post/166390It seems they are quite the same - possibly this is intended by you. I just have noticed it because it looked familiar to me. Regards, Bernie |
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Post by erikMAMS on Jun 15, 2015 7:25:30 GMT
Mike - I have sent you a PM
Erik
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 15, 2015 13:04:13 GMT
Hi Mike, I just saw your updated table and compared it with Ronnie Gustafsson's settings that you worked out with effort in this post: charliehall.proboards.com/post/166390It seems they are quite the same - possibly this is intended by you. I just have noticed it because it looked familiar to me. Regards, Bernie Hi Bernie, Please relax, I can assure you that there was no chicanery involved. In fact I received an email from 'H' who was kind enough to assemble the data in a table using Microsoft Word. He was perfectly upfront about it and stated "I have only filled in the settings that were posted on the earlier thread, but there is plenty of room for more settings. I guess its only of use for bedroom player as it take time adjusting the settings. but it a fairly easy way of saving the settings." His table presented what I had posted previously in a much better way and this convinced me to reconstruct my own table using his format. Also it was an opportunity to bring all the settings, posted to date, together in a single table. There has been a niggle at the back of my mind that without the names of tunes to act as a guide my original table may not be particularly useful. Others appear to be sharing that view. The 'Generic' entries are just that - entries which I (it might be different for others) have found to be particularly useful and originated from Charlie and Erik (Generic 1) in 2011 and yourself in the "Perfect" EQ Settings thread (Generic 2) which appear to be proving useful when used with different amps. Regards, Mike |
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Post by bernie on Jun 15, 2015 13:25:38 GMT
Hi Mike,
Never mind my mention. It was just meant to inform you - no thought of chicanery. No offence!
Regards,
Bernie
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 15, 2015 13:44:01 GMT
Hi Mike, Never mind my mention. It was just meant to inform you - no thought of chicanery. No offence! Regards, Bernie Hi Bernie, None taken. Perhaps it is I who should be apologising (seem to be doing a lot of that lately) to you for not being more clear about how those values appeared in the table. It can be an unfortunate side effect of Internet posting when our omissions frequently trip us up more than misguided good intentions. Regards Mike |
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Post by bernie on Jun 15, 2015 15:04:32 GMT
Hi Mike,
Thank you for your reply - everything's ok!
Regards,
Bernie
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 15, 2015 15:17:49 GMT
Hi everyone, Just a heads up to advise the community that I have now updated my original post again to incorporate many of the helpful suggestions made by the membership: charliehall.proboards.com/post/171955You may have noticed that I have a tendency towards updating my posts  Mostly it's because I think of better ways to express myself or correct grammatical errors, but mainly it is to avoid the needless addition of posts, which can easily lead to confusion when a correction or addition will serve perfectly well. Thankfully these Boards allow this to happen although I'm sure many will frown on the practice. However, in my defence, I would point out that this thread is an evolving exercise in an experiment which is relatively new to many of us. As such any updates or modifications made to a root post can be very helpful in saving us from repeatedly having to wade through an ever lengthening thread. Regards, Mike |
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Post by lw on Jun 15, 2015 19:19:31 GMT
Can you really actually hear the effect of moving 125Hz from -8 to -10 ?
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Post by garyallen on Jun 15, 2015 19:48:59 GMT
Hi Mike, How does the caline pedal react when the gain is increased ? Is it noisy ? If I had to remove Bass I would increase the gain to make the mids more prominent instead of increasing the mids as I think mids sound nasal when increased. The chart looks like an upside down smile which makes me think it would be okay for say Gonzales or Shadoogie. Have you made any soundfiles ? best regards gary
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Post by imfrettin on Jun 15, 2015 20:16:53 GMT
Hi Gary,
I've just tried increasing the gain and with my set up I can go to +6 without it distorting. It certainly brightens things up.
I guess it would be a different value depending on how the amp controls are set
It will be interesting to hear Mikes thoughts on this.
Regards
'H'
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Post by bernie on Jun 15, 2015 20:30:05 GMT
Hi Gary,
I quite agree - my experience with the caline was that the increase of mids lead to the nasal sound you mentioned. That's why I reached my best results with mids at 0 and the gain unto +6dB (Generic 2). Increase of gain is no problem - I found the caline isn't noisy at all.
Regards,
Bernie
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 15, 2015 22:04:38 GMT
Can you really actually hear the effect of moving 125Hz from -8 to -10 ? Hi lw, Good question. A frequency boost or cut of 2dB when heard as part of the mix rather than in isolation is more likely to be perceived as a subtle change in tonal coloration of the overall sound. So, I'm assuming the answer to your question would be yes. If such a boost or cut of the frequency 125Hz is heard in isolation then I imagine the normal healthy human ear would have no difficulty detecting a change. Perhaps I could turn the question around and ask you if you are able to identify a change? Remember, these values were deduced and posted on March 6 from examples of Ronnie Gustafsson's helpful Boss GE-10 settings identified from his "That Sound - Part 2 - The Clinic" YouTube video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5cOLV_fci4charliehall.proboards.com/post/166390Here is another link to an interesting article (scroll down to the section headed 'The Threshold of Hearing and the Decibel Scale' : www.physicsclassroom.com/class/sound/Lesson-2/Intensity-and-the-Decibel-ScaleThis is all relatively new territory for me, but very interesting nonetheless. Regards, Mike
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Post by Cruachan on Jun 16, 2015 0:26:51 GMT
Hi Gary, 'H' and Bernie I've tested the Caline CP-24 at my normal amp volume setting which is plenty loud enough in the room where I play guitar and jam with a friend. Currently I am finding the best settings are as for Generic (1) in the table. My preferred cut and boost values for 500Hz and 4KHz respectively are highlighted in bold. For my age, 68 this year, I regard my hearing as being pretty good and am able to hear sound frequencies ranging between and including 30Hz - 11KHz. You may like to test yourselves. Select the first 2 items under the Frequency Response Tests on this page and play the sound file: www.audiocheck.net/soundtestsaudiotesttones_index.phpThe Caline is essentially silent when the sliders for the mids are all at 0dB. All these sliders can be increased to 8dB without noticeable hiss. The hiss only becomes intrusive in the room situation when they are at +10 to +12dB. I doubt whether you will hear any hiss at any of the settings listed in the table unless you are very close to the amp's speaker. With all the mids (250Hz to 4KHz) set to 10dB the Master Gain can be increased to 8dB without noticeable change in hiss level. From 8 -12dB the hiss become progressively more audible. 12dB is really a no no, but then it's unlikely ever to be used. Here is an image of my current pedal setup:  You will note I am also trying out the Joyo JF-13 AC Tone. Like the Caline it has a true Bypass switch so either can be used independently. I must say, it too is a very nice affordable pedal and early results are showing great promise. However, that's not the topic under discussion here. As yet, I haven't recorded any sound files. Sorry, but then what you hear is a very personal thing and your opinion will certainly be influenced by the quality of the recorded file. Regards, Mike |
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Post by sten on Apr 23, 2016 6:34:49 GMT
Have testing Spotnicks sound
(Gain 0), (31 -12), (62 0), (125 10), (250 0), (500 -12), (1K 6), (2K 6), (4K 0), (8K 0), (16K -12)
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Post by sten on Apr 23, 2016 6:38:32 GMT
Have testing Spotnicks sound( Gain 0), ( 31 -12), ( 62 0), ( 125 10), ( 250 0), ( 500 -12), ( 1K 6), ( 2K 6), ( 4K 0), ( 8K 0), ( 16K -12) Regards Sten |
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Post by allclaphands on Apr 23, 2016 11:33:41 GMT
Have testing Spotnicks sound( Gain 0), ( 31 -12), ( 62 0), ( 125 10), ( 250 0), ( 500 -12), ( 1K 6), ( 2K 6), ( 4K 0), ( 8K 0), ( 16K -12) Thanks Sten For sharing you settings for Spotnicks tune with us that what this site is all about sharing information about all things to do with music ect. Pete |
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Post by bernie on Apr 23, 2016 17:12:02 GMT
Hi, Another interesting setting for a 10 Band EQ you can find on Björn Anderssons version of ' Wonderful Land' (at 0:30). Regards, Bernie |
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Post by satiananda on Feb 15, 2019 18:16:08 GMT
Hello! Can anyone show me the setup of EQ 10 on Theme for Young Lovers?
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Post by Stu's Dad on Feb 15, 2019 18:43:42 GMT
Hello! Can anyone show me the setup of EQ 10 on Theme for Young Lovers? Use the same one for Wonderful Land. |
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Post by timryland on Feb 15, 2019 19:23:32 GMT
Out of interest I assume you put the EQ unit between the Echo and Amp.
Tim
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Mostly it's because I think of better ways to express myself or correct grammatical errors, but mainly it is to avoid the needless addition of posts, which can easily lead to confusion when a correction or addition will serve perfectly well. Thankfully these Boards allow this to happen although I'm sure many will frown on the practice. However, in my defence, I would point out that this thread is an evolving exercise in an experiment which is relatively new to many of us. As such any updates or modifications made to a root post can be very helpful in saving us from repeatedly having to wade through an ever lengthening thread.
