Making Katana sound like a Fender Deluxe Reverb

[rogerbayliss]

The uTube video below, is someone trying to make a Katana sound like a Fender amp and does a good job. He makes his patch file for Katana free to download on uTube link.

Most amps have a Preamp and tone stack curve which shapes the sound of the amp amongst other things. Fender and Vox have this mid scooped feature in the preamp depending on where tone controls are adjusted. Grab a copy of Duncan Amp Tools software and see this in graph form for yourself. I went through this sort of process in designing my latest Shads Tones for the Katana. I created patches for the main sounds used over the early Shads tunes. By making adjustments to the global eq settings on the Katana, you can shape the sound to match the amp quite well.

You can then after getting the Katana sounding more like a Vox , make EQ adjustments in the effects section and use compression and boosters to get the right tones, The room reverb is great with some pre delay and if course Tape echos an be employed. I prefer to use a dedicated external echo though, as this frees up effects on the Katana for the other effects.


Tube Video Katana to Fender Sound

[rogerbayliss]

Another route we could use is profiling amps , the most obvious being the Kempler Profiling Amp. It is more costly, but produces great results. Obviously you need a reference amp and set it up to give sounds you want to profile, such as AC30TB for Burns , AC15 Series 3 brilliant etc.

Once you have obtain the amp sound you want to profile , the below video shows how it is done on a Fender amp. We could do profiles for the key Shads amp tones and share those in the community. Imagine having all the Vox amp sounds for Shads in one box ! Might be costly for some , but having close representations of vintage amps might be cost effective overall, especially when you look at the cost of say an AC30 Vintage amp costing upwards of £3000. :?: :idea:

Kempler Profiling a Fender Amp Example

[garystrat]

Hi Roger,

For most purposes you can also purchase Kemper profiles:

www.stltones.com/collections/kemper-profile

The Helix pedal is also worth considering, I use a computer based setup with Helix Native which is expensive for a software amp sim, but has an excellent range of amps and FX. It gets you there at a very much reduced cost and has several Vox/Fender Models with deep modelling controls.

helixhelp.com/models/#amps

line6.com/helix/helixnative.html

HN does benefit from a little patience in learning some of the more advanced ways of handling signal paths, I tend to have a single FX path on the top, but split the path to left and right routing on path B for effects like double tracking (in this case I just have a 120 ms delay on one of the B channels which can thicken the tone nicely). On version 3.10 they have introduced tape deck emulation with saturation, which again brings quite a bit to the table.

I have also gone back to using HN cab emulations, if you get the high/low cuts right with the right mic they compare extremely well high end third party convolvers. For Shadows I use the the AC15 with Silver cab and cut the the lows at 300 Hz using a Neumann U47 mic, with High cut at 8 kHz.

Regards

Gary

[rogerbayliss]

Hi Gary,

I do own a Line6 Helix Stomp and agree they are quite good.

I was aware that the Kempler profiles are widely available.

The modelling and profiling seems to differ , in that the profile seems to capture the amp sound in a certain setup snapshot. Eg where tone controls are set , gain amount, speaker type, mic and muc placement and so on. Would seem good for capturing a song set up .

Seems to me that the amp modellers would probably be more suitable when adjusting tone control and gain etc and the profiles are just an amp snapshot with a particular setup.

So some advantages and disadvantages with profiling in that regard after considering this.

Obviously the Katana works differently as it is neither a modelling amp or profiler and is a well priced option.

Profiling I think would be best used to capture the Shadows 4 main Vox amp settings eg Top Boost Burns, Top Boost earlier, Ac15 Ace30/4 series 3 Brilliance, Ac15 series 2 normal.

With the gradual decline of vintage Vox amps, would appear to be best routes to go as much variation in sounds even on boutique Vox clones and todays Vox amp sounds are different to the originals.

Rog.

[garystrat]

Hi Roger,

You seemed to have summed that up pretty well, my preference has been to try and aim for the character of the original amp(s) rather than a snapshot “canned” tone, there is also the recorded versus live sound where the echo pre-amp and Abbey Road Studio effects all come into play.

The generic nature of the Katana seems to work very well for those who develop the level of understanding of how to apply this principal, whilst the option of simply working from shared pre-sets is there for those who simply want to get a good sound without the hassle. However, I think there is a virtue to understanding the modelling and techniques involved, to me the Katana still seems to fit the profile of a modelling amp without the branded tones.

One of the reasons the Helix Native approach appealed to me is that it’s not only designed around the character of specific manufacturers models, but allows for subtle variations in the way they are setup. I also believe there is a good reason for more focus going into the development of speaker IR detailing, including features like “Z” Curve modelling to provide a more realistic feel to player interaction, with increased processing power I can see a point where this will become even more sophisticated in the future.

Whilst in terms of authenticity it doesn’t completely fit with echoes used by Hank, but I’m pretty happy with the WavesFactory Echo Cat plugin, this gives a nice vintage tube character/feel to the echo and has total controllability over every aspect of detail associated with the original (and more)!

www.wavesfactory.com/audio-plugins/echo-cat/

Regards

Gary

[rogerbayliss]

I recently checked out the market in boutique amps and Vox amps as well, looking for something that would do a great job at replicating the early 60s Vox sounds. Brands like Valvetech Hayseed, Morgan, Badcat etc.

The boutique market as such, often produces amps that are more geared in general for gain and slightly different sounds to a Vox in that they don't sound quite the same and tone stack and master volumes change the character. The only one that comes close for me is the Redstuff FAB 30 a German boutique made amp head which costs about £3000. All the others are not true Vox circuits. Modern day Vox amps of course differ from the 60s circuits as well.

I do like the Vox Handwired AC15HW1X and the AC30 HW Head and combos, you can override the master volume and there us a bright switch on the normal channel too.

Ideally , we could do with Vox making an amp that has true Top Boost circuit and Normal and Brilliance options too. The Heritage handwired Probably came closest overall.

So the only real option for average guitarist budget seems to be finding something that gets you relatively close , without spending a fortune.

I believe the Katana offers this alternative to us , giving suitable results. I have a little plastic Vox VX 30 modelling amp that does a great job.

I have used modellers like the HX Stomp, through return Jack overriding the amps pre amp and got great results too.

So this I feel, is the way to go for most of us wanting a good Shadows sound.

Same is true for echo units and why the Zoom pedals offer a good result for the money. Real tape and vintage echos are very expensive.

[garystrat]

Hi Roger,

I have a 5 watt Laney Lionheart (not Ironheart) L5T 112 boutique amp, this has hand wired circuitry and is pure class A, it's loud for a 5 watt'er! LOL

I'm not sure what budget you have in mind, but I think you will be very surprised at how close this gets you, it even has a tone control that works in a similar way to the Vox cut control.

Mine is one of the originals with a spring reverb, so I'm not sure what the digital reverbs are like, but home use and mic'ing up it could be worth a look?

www.laney.co.uk/amps/guitar/lionheart/l5t-112

I think there're a couple of other members on the site who also have one!

Regards

Gary

[skye]

Hi Gary
Are you able to share o couple of your shadows created patches for the stomp / Native?
Regards Ray

[garystrat]

Hi Ray,

PM me with your Email address, I use a separate plugin for the echo and soundToys Little Plate so you would need to add alternatives from HN FX if required (they would go int the top path A)!

Regards

Gary

[skye]

PM sent

[rogerbayliss]

Jul 5, 2021 13:23:12 GMT garystrat said:

Hi Roger,

I have a 5 watt Laney Lionheart (not Ironheart) L5T 112 boutique amp, this has hand wired circuitry and is pure class A, it's loud for a 5 watt'er! LOL

I'm not sure what budget you have in mind, but I think you will be very surprised at how close this gets you, it even has a tone control that works in a similar way to the Vox cut control.

Mine is one of the originals with a spring reverb, so I'm not sure what the digital reverbs are like, but home use and mic'ing up it could be worth a look?

www.laney.co.uk/amps/guitar/lionheart/l5t-112

I think there're a couple of other members on the site who also have one!

Regards

Gary

I actually have a Laney L5 Studio Head Gary , excellent amp.

[garystrat]

Hi Roger,

It seems we have both been down the same route and have discerning tastes! LOL

Gary