|
Post by EdwardG on Mar 7, 2022 18:38:54 GMT
Hello everyone.... Some of you guys may have already heard of this application, but I'll just say something.. I don't know about anyone else but I've always wanted to be able to separate a track (be it shadows or others) into its various components (or soloists) and this software could be the answer to a dream especially when it comes to comparing your sound with the original soloist in complete isolation with the rest of the track. I know there is similar software out there but I've never really been totally convinced by it, however this application looks to be on another level. It could be the answer to anyone wanting to match their tone by using a spectrum analyzer or similar. You could even take the soloist out and have the backing track for your own solo (copyright respected, of course). Anyway take a look at this intro. on youtube. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIiPeFuiMIcThe software id called 'RipX DeepAAudio' The bad news ... It's not cheap EdwardG Apologies if I don't reply to comments as I don't hang around much in the forum
|
|
|
Post by rogerbayliss on Mar 7, 2022 20:07:21 GMT
It is interesting !
|
|
|
Post by sandra on Mar 8, 2022 2:32:25 GMT
I wonder how it compares to Steinberg's Spectralayers ? Spectralayer
|
|
|
Post by EdwardG on Mar 8, 2022 14:14:41 GMT
Hi Sandra....
I have to admit i just can't get my head around spectral layers, through no fault of the software I might add. Its just me I guess.
From what I've seen of RipX it does a deep scan of the track and breaks it down into the individual soloists, be it bass, piano, guitar and
so on. It then gives you a list of the players which you then just select one and bingo, you've just got the guitar playing it's solo.
And also you can remove the soloist and then just have the backing track to play to.
The video on YouTube explains it in much better detail.
I personally think this is the magic bullet for people like myself who have a wide interest in guitar soloists in general (I have a list
of favourites as long as your arm).
The issue with me is justifying the cost.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by sandra on Mar 8, 2022 15:17:55 GMT
Hi Ed, It does seem to have more functionality than Spectralayers, I have only used Specrtalayers in its Stem Unmixing mode to mute the guitar or vocal and it sometimes sounded a little "muddy", but I haven't really explored how to refine it, if it is possible to do so. RipX looks like a better interface, more like Melodyne, this site says that Spectralayers extracted the piano better than the others but their star ratings give RipX the best marks. Attack
|
|
|
Post by GAJ52 on Mar 9, 2022 15:13:36 GMT
Has anyone tried the free version yet ?
|
|
|
Post by ha2he on Mar 9, 2022 17:14:30 GMT
I'm having a quick play with the free version and have run Apache through it, can't see how to remove Hank to leave a backing track, or have I got the wrong idea entirely? It has separated bass, drums and guitar, of course guitar is Hank & Bruce. Of course not having a clue doesn't help
|
|
|
Post by teflon on Mar 9, 2022 20:01:57 GMT
I'm also having a quick play with the trial version with very mixed results. Tried removing Hank from "Theme For Young Lovers", and it really wasn't any use. Some parts disappeared, but some parts stayed, and the track had an overall "phasey" sound. Had another go with Cliffs original version of "The Young Ones". It isolated the main vocal very impressively, so you could either hear Cliff as a solo, or the Shadows without Cliff. Tried removing Hanks guitar though, and again, very disappointing results. Some of the fills disappeared, but the main solo remained.
I then tried something a little more modern: "What Car" from Cliff's album "Somethings Going On". This was far more successful and actually quite impressive. Not perfect by any means, but pretty darn good. I suspect that the software might be geared towards more modern material, but I'll continue to play over the next day or so. So far though, I doubt I'll bother with the full version. A shame, as it would be great to finally have a source for backing tracks for some of the more obscure tunes where proper commercial ones aren't available.
Cliff
P.S Just tried "Jungle Jam". It isolated the bass part pretty well, but confused the guitar with the keyboard :-(
|
|
|
Post by sandra on Mar 9, 2022 20:11:04 GMT
Once you have your file opened in the program, it can take a few minutes to import it and split it into the various tracks, you will see a section at the bottom right hand corner that has Master then the various tracks, or stems, that it has separated below it.
Click on the M of Guitar to make it red then go to File the Export, it defaults to midi so select MP3 or WAV, if you do not want midi, select All in What to Export then for just a BT without Hank select Single File in the Files to Create then click Export.
If you intended to play around with it in a DAW to experiment with re mixing it you would select Separate Stems so that you could have the individual tracks to play around with later.
I hope that helps.
|
|
|
Post by fenderplucker on Mar 10, 2022 2:09:58 GMT
Unless the program has enough "artificial intelligence" to know what the melody line is to follow the notes of the lead guitar (for example), there are only two sources of information available to allow separation. They are spatial separation and spectral (i.e. frequency) separation.
An example of the former is lead guitar in the left channel and the rest in the right channel or, at worst, lead guitar in the center channel and the rest in either the left or right channels. An example of spectral separation might be a tune involving only lead, bass and drums, where the frequencies of the lead have little overlap with those of the other instruments.
However, on typical Shadows tracks comprising lead, rhythm, bass and drums, there are invariably sections of the tune where the notes or harmonics of the lead overlap with those of the rhythm (they are both just guitars with the same tuning) and also possibly any strings in the backing, and so spectral separation is absent. Furthermore, there are many Shadows tunes where the lead is in the same channel as the rhythm or other sections (e.g. strings, drums) and so spatial separation is absent. On such tunes it is very difficult to get separation of the lead without affecting the other instruments.
I have not yet found any programs that use all of the information available, and RipX seems to be no exception. I usually use a program like RiffStation (now available for free) to make use of any spatial separation and then clean it up with a spectral analysis program SpetraLayers to make use of any spectral information. But it can be a very time-intensive process, particularly if you have to edit the tune note by note in which case I am also using knowledge of the actual tune to follow the lead line! Natural intelligence??
Paul.
|
|
|
Post by sheendigs on Mar 10, 2022 2:31:27 GMT
Hi Cliff, I tried using the program with Theme for Young Lovers. It cannot separate the rhythm guitar and the solo..they seem to be merged together..If one takes ou the solo, the rhythm guitar gets reduced also! With Flingel Bunt, it worked so and so...but in the distance, one can hear a little bit of Hank's guitar! Sheendigs
|
|
|
Post by fenderplucker on Mar 10, 2022 2:46:53 GMT
It is strange that it doesn't work very well on Theme for Young Lovers since either of the stereo versions have Hank entirely in one channel and the backing in the other. Just delete the channel with Hank in it and voila! RipX obviously does not make full use of any spatial separation.
Paul.
|
|
|
Post by garystrat on Mar 10, 2022 4:51:17 GMT
That seems about right Paul, if you read the replies from David Wallimann (the person in the video) he recognises that there is some “spill” over from the processing and that if you have say two or more guitars in the mix they get summed and treated as one! Ableton Live Suit does a similar thing, but they make it a three step process of separating Harmony, Rhythm and Drums and converting to a MIDI file for instruments and FX to be added, which to me seems a more logical approach: www.ableton.com/en/manual/converting-audio-to-midi/Regards Gary
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Mar 10, 2022 10:21:29 GMT
Like Paul says, you can't 'unmix' a two channel track, where several instruments share tracks. Whatever frequencies you isolate to get your 'instrument' will also include the exact same frequencies from every other instrument present on the track, where they overlap.
|
|
|
Post by sheendigs on Mar 10, 2022 13:06:33 GMT
Hi There I used Audacity to reduce hank's guitar on TFYL on the left channel. Then I used RIPX to try and eliminate the guitar..it stayed a little bit yet. Seems satisfactory. Sheendigs
|
|
|
Post by philc on Mar 10, 2022 14:01:00 GMT
Just create your own BT's as per the originals.....piece of cake
|
|
|
Post by sheendigs on Mar 10, 2022 14:35:04 GMT
Hi Phil I have several Bt at home. But I just wanted to test RIPX and see how it behaves. Now, I know what it can do. Sheendigs
|
|
|
Post by rogerbayliss on Mar 10, 2022 16:58:40 GMT
Some of the old recordings used fewer tracks to record eg 2 track and 4 track and in many cases mixdowns of several tracks were done to put several instruments into one mixdown track. This frees up tracks for further recording of additional instruments and overdubs.
I would think a mixdown track would pose problems with this type of software, by holding several instruments and it might be that more modern recordings with more mixer tracks would work better.
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Mar 10, 2022 19:15:06 GMT
Some of the old recordings used fewer tracks to record eg 2 track and 4 track and in many cases mixdowns of several tracks were done to put several instruments into one mixdown track. This frees up tracks for further recording of additional instruments and overdubs. I would think a mixdown track would pose problems with this type of software, by holding several instruments and it might be that more modern recordings with more mixer tracks would work better. Not really, because when all said and done, unless you have access to the original multi-tracks, you're all working with music mixed down to two channels. If anything, the old Shadows recordings have less information to break apart. Either way, whether your recording has four instruments and a singer or a a full orchestra, the CD/download you buy has two tracks - left and right.
|
|
|
Post by philc on Mar 11, 2022 9:12:53 GMT
What also complicates things on some tracks is the spill from say Hanks guitar onto the mics of the bass, rhythm and drums, reverb also causes problems .
Phil
|
|
|
Post by shadfan4 on Mar 11, 2022 13:39:55 GMT
Bottom line is, there is unlikely to be any software available that will produce any BT of any high quality from an original and eliminate whichever part required completely ,and dont forget not everyone wants to eliminate guitar tracks IE: drummers,bass, piano players etc,as Phil says spend more time learning how to make your own BTs from scratch, not with BIAB either. It will open up a whole new musical world if you do.
If thats not an option then youtube has so many BTs available you may well be able to get what you want.
Mike.
|
|
|
Post by rogerbayliss on Mar 12, 2022 8:07:02 GMT
Some of the old recordings used fewer tracks to record eg 2 track and 4 track and in many cases mixdowns of several tracks were done to put several instruments into one mixdown track. This frees up tracks for further recording of additional instruments and overdubs. I would think a mixdown track would pose problems with this type of software, by holding several instruments and it might be that more modern recordings with more mixer tracks would work better. Not really, because when all said and done, unless you have access to the original multi-tracks, you're all working with music mixed down to two channels. If anything, the old Shadows recordings have less information to break apart. Either way, whether your recording has four instruments and a singer or a a full orchestra, the CD/download you buy has two tracks - left and right. Maybe it is easier on some tracks where instruments are panned across the stereo Field and more easier for the software to identify. It was always easier to pick out a solo part that was centered with backing to left and right or solo on right and backing on left etc. Things like reverb are also difficult .
|
|