Delay pedal/systems recommendations

[garystrat]

Jan 12, 2024 18:12:23 GMT bikesforme16 said:

Hi Gary very interested in getting the Strymon at moment I use the Yamaha magic stomp with Charlies patches but it's getting on so looking for something present.
Is there a list of settings anywhere for the shadows songs with the Strymon. Many thanks

Pleased to be of help, I've sent you a PM!

Regards

Gary

[bikesforme16]

Many thanks Gary

[petemarko]

Hi Sanda,

Can you point me to the program you mentioned please : Christian's VST Host program

[sandra]

Hi Pete,

This is the link to Christian's forum:

vintage-sounds.freeforums.net/

Christian is French, but he speaks better English than many English people do, and there is plenty of advice and help, if you need it from him, Jan, our resident Dutchman, who also speaks better English than many English people and even occasionally from myself and other forum members

Once registered, it is free to register and to use his program, but the first time you install it you may get a message asking for donations to Hermann Seib, the guy who originally designed the basic program, which Christian and Jan have done extensive work on to develop the patches to get the Shadows, Spotniks and a few other useful effects and sounds.

I have never seen that message, even though I have installed it several times on my own computers and on a few people's PCs, either at their house or remotely over TeamViewer and you can just ignore the message if you do see it.

This is the link for the v5 version, that has all the patches that you need and is recommended to download and install and setup and to get used to first:

vintage-sounds.freeforums.net/thread/2213/package-v5c

Once you have got that up and running you will find it easy to download and install v6 from here:

vintage-sounds.freeforums.net/thread/2214/package-v6

V6 has fewer patches but Christian and Jan are working hard to increase the number of patches and many users say that the new patches are even better than the ones in v5, the main benefit is that most are able to use the BTs that Jan has created from the original recordings.

I am sure you will be impressed at the sound you get, for free and just a little of your time.

[petemarko]

Mant thanks Sandra, I'll check it out today and get back to you.

[dnelson]

I've been experimenting with the Hotone Ampero II Stomp, with some success. Note that it's not just an echo unit: more of an all-in-one multi-effect. It's got an AC30 amp model that does a respectable job, and in combination with other effects can get you reasonably close to "that sound" IME.

About echo units: it's got many, a couple of which are of interest. "Infinidelay" (1 and 2) are echoes with four heads and independently adjustable times (ms), levels and stereo pan (not useful for my purposes: I set all four to centre). Any head not required can be set to level "0", so you get 0-4 heads.

The "Infinidelay" effect has a universal feedback control, since out-of-the-box it's set to feed all four delays into each other, creating a cacophony of reflections. This feedback is not useful for simulating a vintage tape unit, so I set it to 0 -- use the Infinidelay for playback-only heads...

Of course that on its own would only be useful for tracks where you don't want feedback (like Apache).

For a feedback head, I add another delay in front of the Infinidelay, with time and feedback set appropriately. For a -2dB head, "63" seems to work well; -4dB "40", etc. The Ampero has a few delays that serve the purpose well, like the "Tape Delay" effect, which has various controls for wow & flutter, gain and "age" (tape age?) etc.

Working from the figures in Patrice Bastien's excellent paper "THE ECHOES OF HANK MARVIN : HISTORY, SECRETS AND MYSTERIES" (linked elsewhere in this forum), setting times/levels/feedback etc appropriately, I've been able to get some decent multi-head echo sounds -- for up to five heads (one for feedback, up to for play-only).

Unlike the Strymon, all patches and effects can be edited directly from the unit (touchscreen and knobs) or via the provided editor software. No midi deep-editing required.

So I think the Ampero II Stomp is worth a look, although I can't guarantee it's better or worse quality than anything else, or that it will do everything you want.

I'd be happy to share patches and recordings, once I've had some more time to work on it.

[bikesforme16]

Jan 15, 2024 21:47:17 GMT dnelson said:

I've been experimenting with the Hotone Ampero II Stomp, with some success. Note that it's not just an echo unit: more of an all-in-one multi-effect. It's got an AC30 amp model that does a respectable job, and in combination with other effects can get you reasonably close to "that sound" IME.

About echo units: it's got many, a couple of which are of interest. "Infinidelay" (1 and 2) are echoes with four heads and independently adjustable times (ms), levels and stereo pan (not useful for my purposes: I set all four to centre). Any head not required can be set to level "0", so you get 0-4 heads.

The "Infinidelay" effect has a universal feedback control, since out-of-the-box it's set to feed all four delays into each other, creating a cacophony of reflections. This feedback is not useful for simulating a vintage tape unit, so I set it to 0 -- use the Infinidelay for playback-only heads...

Of course that on its own would only be useful for tracks where you don't want feedback (like Apache).

For a feedback head, I add another delay in front of the Infinidelay, with time and feedback set appropriately. For a -2dB head, "63" seems to work well; -4dB "40", etc. The Ampero has a few delays that serve the purpose well, like the "Tape Delay" effect, which has various controls for wow & flutter, gain and "age" (tape age?) etc.

Working from the figures in Patrice Bastien's excellent paper "THE ECHOES OF HANK MARVIN : HISTORY, SECRETS AND MYSTERIES" (linked elsewhere in this forum), setting times/levels/feedback etc appropriately, I've been able to get some decent multi-head echo sounds -- for up to five heads (one for feedback, up to for play-only).

Unlike the Strymon, all patches and effects can be edited directly from the unit (touchscreen and knobs) or via the provided editor software. No midi deep-editing required.

So I think the Ampero II Stomp is worth a look, although I can't guarantee it's better or worse quality than anything else, or that it will do everything you want.

I'd be happy to share patches and recordings, once I've had some more time to work on it.

Dnelson very interested in your settings, I have a valeton gp200lt which is made by the same company. I am so confused on all these echo settings what amp settings should be ect.
I not long started playing The shadows songs so any pointers you could give me would be really helpful.
You can't double effects up on the Gp200lt ie use 2 different delays. Many thanks Peter

[dnelson]

Jan 16, 2024 9:12:42 GMT bikesforme16 said:

Dnelson very interested in your settings, I have a valeton gp200lt which is made by the same company. I am so confused on all these echo settings what amp settings should be ect.
I not long started playing The shadows songs so any pointers you could give me would be really helpful.
You can't double effects up on the Gp200lt ie use 2 different delays. Many thanks Peter

Hi Peter, I had a look at the gp200lt manual. You're right: same company, so there are a lot of similarities in effects.

I'd say in terms of delays specifically, there will be some limitations since, as you say, can't chain multiple delays together. But it has a multi-tap echo "M-Echo" that offers patterns, although not individual head adjustment. So not a replacement for something like the Strymon...

However as wiser heads have said, getting "that sound" is about a lot more than the echo unit. Looking at the amp models, cabinets etc., I think I can give you a couple of pointers where to start. Let me get back to you soon...

--Dave

[bikesforme16]

Cheers Dave,the valeton just had a update and it's got another delay it's a dual delay but still can't double delays up.
I would be interested in how you set your hotone up, your signal chain and settings and amp and settings.
I use IR,s with mine and I have brought some celestion blue ones. Be nice to hear your opinion on the hotone. Many thanks Peter

[petemarko]

Just an update on my setup: I would love to buy a Strymon Volante Echo unit, but at the time, just before I found this forum, I had already ordered the pedals listed below.

I'm getting a fairly decent sound out of my Fender American Original '50s Stratocaster, which has '59 Pure Vintage Single-coil pickups.

The pedals below are the new pedals I acquired.

Keeley Compressor Plus compressor

MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay

MXR M300 Reverb

So, I'm considering keeping what I have and avoiding the hassle of selling the MXR delay pedal and reverb pedals. Does anyone think It's worth selling my existing delay and reverb pedals and buying a Strymon Volante Echo unit?

[Charlie Hall]

I would keep a compressor and reverb either way, if they sound good alone.

[petemarko]

Jan 31, 2024 16:53:13 GMT Charlie Hall said:

I would keep a compressor and reverb either way, if they sound good alone.

Thanks Charlie, the compressor is definitely a keeper.

[garystrat]

We can only offer advice in good faith Pete, you need to decide if you’re committed enough to spend the money, time and patience in getting the sound you seek, for many of us it’s the interest, challenge and sense of community that has proved to be very rewarding!

For many it’s a progressive path and as our experience grows we become more aware of the finer points, it’s all about the satisfaction levels and hearing those tones which inspire playing and a personal sense of achievement. In the right hands the Volante has the potential to add authentic individualism and perhaps the best way I can describe it, disguises it’s digital heritage by using a unique analogue preamp and carefully thought out modelling of the variability that one would find in a vintage unit.

However, it’s not a “plug n’ play” pedal and the more you work with it the more you will discover, as an example there is a very reactive response between the “REC” level and “ECHO” level in combination.

The Strymon Volante is not a replacement for your reverb in the strict sense, it has a very good spring reverb, but Abbey Road Studio were known to use the EMT 140 plate reverb. I believe you have plate reverb on the MXR M300, but my preference is to use SoundToys “Super Plate” plugin which has more options, there is also a YT video of their settings for what is known as “The Abbey Road Trick”.

I’m a person who very much follows my own conventions, to me that “That Sound” is as much about the character of the vintage equipment, their imperfections and the organic feel that is associated with the early recorded sound. I thought this was an interesting part of a review by Chris Gill in Guitar World:

“While I’ve been impressed with several digital effects pedals that model classic devices, like the Binson Echorec and Roland Space Echo, as the owner of various original units, I can attest that no pedal can accurately duplicate their nuances, personality and idiosyncrasies - except the Volante.”

If perhaps you think of this more as a journey of discovery that can add to your playing experience and is something you want to do, that might help the decision making process!

Regards

Gary


This YT video tutorial will give you an insight as to the controls works:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFEvBP-hrYE

[petemarko]

Hi Gary,

It's easy to tell you are well-versed in the Strymon Volante and digital effects in general. I very much appreciate your sentiments. I will most likely move forward and purchase the Volante, then sell my MXR Copy, and as I have already indicated in my response to Charlie, I will keep my Keely Compressor. I can be very impulsive. When it comes to making decisions, I'm going to move slowly in this instance

[petemarko]

I have ordered a new Strymon Volante and should have it in a few days

I will sell my MXR Carbon Copy delay pedal as it is obviously useless to me now. I have a question about whether or not I should sell or keep my MXR reverb, given the Volante has a Spring Reverb function built in.

[garystrat]

Hi Pete,

I have sent you a PM with some information that should be of ihelp!

Personally, I would keep the MXR reverb for the moment and experiment using the plate setting and/or the Strymon’s spring reverb, you can always consider something like SoundToys Super Plate later:

www.soundtoys.com/product/superplate/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNs5oT-1tmM

At the moment it’s full price, so I would certainly hold off as it’s frequently on sale for around half price!

Regards

Gary

[petemarko]

Hi Gary, thanks again; I'll wait for the Volante to turn up and go from there

[philc]

Just my two pence worth, pedals like the Keeley Compressor/Plus compressor are not the same as the compressors used at Abbey Road, ie the Altecs and Fairchilds, these are different beasts and don't work in the same way.

Phil