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Post by Amanda Hambidge on Jun 8, 2011 9:22:45 GMT
Hi Rednef,
An interesting article, the fetzer!
The way Charlie has done it the unit sounds exactly the same as a valve unit, I reckon anyone who heard both Charlie's echo and a Meazzi Echomatic behind a curtain would not be able to tell which was which.
As you say though there will always be people who don't like semiconductors - no matter how good they sound!!
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Post by whammybar on Jun 8, 2011 11:54:55 GMT
Brilliant just brilliant !!! Thank,s Charlie all your work is much
appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 12:58:51 GMT
HI AMANDA & RED ,, Just to put in my bit on this subject,, I have built both the fetzler & the ''trioderizer'' circuits & yes they sound good to me ,comparing them to a triode valve.. But really does it matter as long as ''The-Sound'' results are there as they say ''THE-PROOF-OF-THE-Pudding-Is-In-The-Eating'' & obviously they were as amanda & others who have heard this unit have stated.. Yes there would be Die-hard-valve enthusiasts who may not want solid-state ,but that come-also at a cost & lets be honest with our-selves these day's most people want the cheapest option to get there sound & reliability & consistancy with there effects at the press of the buttons .. I myself like to dabble with my tape units valve as well as solid state [ Its a great hobby for me ,but after hours of fine-tuning I would be incapable of producing these units in production to be all equal in end-result.. If I was a gigging player I would Opt for a modern unit as say Q2-20 M/stomp etc-etc & or the unit Charlie will present for the reliability aspect..But as I play only at home I enjoy my tape unit as well as the digy units I have-using a few Fet preamps as well!!.. Speaking of the Fetzler fet circuits have you seen this Trioderizer circuit here.. www.radiomuseum.org/forum/the_trioderizer_a_solid_state_triode.htmlHorses-for-Courses is an apt saying we all have different view's but that's-Life.. CHEERS TO ALL ECHOoooo-Heads & all ,,,,,,,,,,barry..
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Post by 26rednef on Jun 8, 2011 13:51:50 GMT
Hi.
The sound is what counts, tubes,solid state no problem, and if I can get rid of struggle with different knob settings and just pouch a button and concentrate on the playing I like that. Then I can sit in my lab and build and program for weeks no problem I like that very much, but not on gigs and I understand the interest and fascination for a old machines like old cars and old music gear.
Kind Regards, 26rednef
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Post by istvan on Jun 8, 2011 14:43:56 GMT
I wait,and I know your Effect is the best! istvan
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Post by didier on Jun 8, 2011 16:18:31 GMT
I wait,and I know your Effect is the best! But it will not be possible to call it "Hall Effect", it's already been used... Didier
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Post by 26rednef on Jun 8, 2011 17:02:42 GMT
Hi. But when see all this response it definitely has magnetism and solid state so the conditions for a Hall effect is there. ;D Kind Regards, 26rednef
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Post by solidlg on Jun 8, 2011 21:01:10 GMT
Hi Charlie,
The brilliance of the concept developed here should perhaps have been expected, and I guess timing for the sale of 2 x Q2 1 x Magicstomp - 1 x QGT is now paramount :-), or perhaps like my SRE555 the others can also be a little bit of the past.
Check you PM's mate. All the best Steve
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 8, 2011 22:57:07 GMT
Thanks for all your comments, and sorry to not answer sooner as I have been catching up with work since being away for the Get Together.
Hi Karl, I like to think that the new echo unit will be not only a real alternative to a Meazzi, it will be the nearest thing in sound to Hank's originals (unless you could find real examples of exactly the same units), since the drum units sound different to the tape units for a number of reasons, and the programmed patches will have the characteristics of each unit being replicated.
Hi Robby, The price won't be as high as one might think when the sounds it will produce are considered. It will cost more than most if not all pedals though.
Hi Jim, I probably hinted at being fed up with programming new units (that aren't really up to the job in my personal view). Of course, I wasn't prepared to let on why at the time.
Hi Alan, Demos will follow as soon as I can get some done.
Hi Roberto, The new unit will cost much less than an ESE Echomatic cost.
Hi Scott, Congratulations on the birth of your second daughter.
Hi Gary, Exactly, there will be no compromises with the new unit. We would have used a real valve in the preamp if it had been the only way to get the sound. It would cost far more and I do not see any benefits to using a valve in this case, in view of the solid state equivalent circuit I have designed. The Valvetronix preamp has only one valve, and that is used only to approximate power amp distortion.
Hi Bill, I haven't found a way to get EF86 pentode characteristics with solid state circuits yet. Fortunately, the Meazzis don't use an EF86. By wider appeal, do you mean for modern music styles or for older styles like Pink Floyd and other artists who used traditional echo? The controls are there for fine tuning the sounds to the player's personal taste. I'm not so sure that different settings would be needed with different amps.
Hi 26rednef, The new echo unit is not even close to the TVS3, but that is not saying that the new echo unit is not as good as the TVS3. Preconceptions about solid state do certainly exist. I can only say that hearing is believing. It all depends on what one wants to hear. I know about the Fetzer valve and it does not do what my circuit does. The Fetzer valve is an FET circuit with some linearizing component to turn a square law into a 1.5 law, or something like that. I don't believe a fixed transfer law is the answer. When I think of valve circuits I get a kind of a sentimental feeling that connects me with the sound of some favourite old equipment. I also get that feeling when I look at my circuit drawings, especially when I see how they behave on a scope.
Hi Barry, The trioderizer is closer to a triode than the fetzer valve but the trioderizer alone does not replicate a triode valve in every way. My circuits act more like the trioderizer than the fetzer valve does, but I have solved it in a unique way, and without the need for such high resistor values or compensating caps etc. I have also included the lowering input impedance as the input goes positive, although that may be debatable (except I won't be debating it!) with a Strat as there isn't really enough signal from a Strat to cause that in a significant way with the equivalent valve circuit unless the guitar has high output (heavy strings and loud chords maybe?). Something over around 600mv is needed to cause the input to go more positive with the earthed or grounded cathode circuit.
Hi Didier, The Hall Effect crossed my mind too, but I soon dismissed for the same reason as you have stated. We are actually having a lot of trouble thinking of a good name.
Hi Steve, I have answered your email.
Regards, Charlie
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Post by abstamaria on Jun 9, 2011 0:46:17 GMT
That is good news, Charlie. It seems funny to say that "what the world needs is yet another echo machine," particularly to emulate a sound now 51 years old, yet I am excited about your new project, Charlie. Keep us posted.
Andy
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Post by alanmckillop on Jun 9, 2011 5:37:12 GMT
I was hoping I'd ended all my 'sound' related purchases, but having bought my first unit via Charlie in 1997 (and had everything since), I guess I could stretch to one more. Looks good.
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Post by groundhog on Jun 9, 2011 8:26:23 GMT
Good Luck Charlie with your echo box .There is a demand for such a unit even by players who are only playing at home "wonderfull echo box" . Cheers John
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Post by 26rednef on Jun 9, 2011 8:43:24 GMT
Hi Charlie.
Why pick on me ?
I did not say that you used any thing of that, because I don't know. I do know that Fetzer's model setup gives a sound that is very close to what you get from a tube even when it is overdriven. I did not say it was some kind of solution for simulating the Meazzi sound, but that it is possible to get tube sounds without using tubes. I know that it is so much more needed to get something to work and give the illusion to be something else,
Kind Regards, 26rednef
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Post by garystrat on Jun 9, 2011 9:26:24 GMT
Hi Charlie
This is brilliant news, there is no doubt it is going to be something very special, I think we are all getting pretty excited about this one!
You have done so much for everyone with EFTP patches, but to have something more affordable with little compromise really is moving towards the "Holy Grail" for many of us. I did a few home recordings for someone recently who brought a Meazzi into the equation and it was a real eye opener compared to my MagicStomp, which short of a Q2/Q20 is probably one of the better units.
Interestingly, we also used his mic'd up 59' AC15 and both of us were quite surprised to find there was less difference between that and direct input from my Tonelab LE!
I would have sent you a couple of sound files, but I always respect others recordings as being their property and in this case the person concerned wanted to hold them back for the time being.
Time to start saving ...........
Best wishes
Gary
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Post by keithinalps on Jun 9, 2011 10:35:12 GMT
Many thanks to Charlie and John for developing this new 'Gold standard ' echo machine, it really is that good , My order is in !!
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 9, 2011 15:15:58 GMT
Thanks for your further comments since my last post. To those who have specifically said in this thread and at the Get Together that they would like one of these when they are ready, I am writing you all down on a list. This is not an official order list, it's just to give me some idea of the quantity to manufacture for a first run. The more there are, the more likely the cost can be reduced.
Hi 26rednef, I was not picking on you, only to make sure that what you said about the Fetzer valve is not to be confused by other readers with the technology in the new echo unit. The power of suggestion can sometimes be misleading. I would like to make clear to everyone that the Fetzer valve does not have triode characteristics even though it may sound very similar to a valve.
Regards, Charlie
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Post by rogercook on Jun 9, 2011 15:24:28 GMT
Hi Charlie
Can you add me to your order list please?. There were times at the weekend when I was convinced what I was hearing was the original recordings!
Roger
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Post by asimmd on Jun 9, 2011 15:26:15 GMT
Hi Charlie
You can pencil me in as well.
Alan
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Post by wout69 on Jun 9, 2011 15:48:54 GMT
Hello Charlie,
Please add me to the list too.
Regards, Wouter.
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Post by Bojan Drndic on Jun 9, 2011 16:00:49 GMT
Charlie, I haven't heard it yet, but please add me to the list by all means!!
Bojan
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Post by jase on Jun 9, 2011 16:46:27 GMT
Hi Charlie
This all sounds very exciting, put me down for one.
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Post by 26rednef on Jun 9, 2011 17:06:39 GMT
Hi. Sound samples please, so we know what we are discussing. I am convinced it is good, but more real. Kind Regards, 26rednef
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Post by garystrat on Jun 9, 2011 17:16:50 GMT
Hi Charlie
I would like to go on the mailing list please
Gary
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Post by benitor on Jun 9, 2011 17:31:01 GMT
... I would like to make clear to everyone that the Fetzer valve does not have triode characteristics even though it may sound very similar to a valve. Regards, Charlie Hi Charlie, the characteristics (anode current VS anode voltage) of a generic J-FET, look like those of a pentode, and as Fetzer Valve do nothing to modify them I suppose that a Fetzer Valve should perhaps sound similar to a pentode. In that case the Fetzer should not be the best for Meazzi emulation but maybe better in other situations. I think that SS can emulate tube very well, just need to find the proper way to do it. I know that is not easy at all, but one year ago I tested in a shop a SS amp made here in Italy that was claiming to sound like a tube amp. It was told to have a special design called "progressive clipping". I do not know in which it works but I could ascertain that overdriving the power section it really sounded like a tube amp. I am very curious about the new creature made by you and John, and I would like very much to have one, but it depends on the price and on how big it will be (I would not like a machine as big as a Zoom G9) Regards benitor
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Post by kipper on Jun 9, 2011 17:35:40 GMT
hi charlie i would like to go on any list please buying depends on price that govens us all. i do like my gt quadraverb though peter
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Post by eltrasero on Jun 9, 2011 18:08:40 GMT
Put me down on the list too please Charlie. You probably won't be interested now but Zoom have finally revealed their new G3 effects units on their website with a manual available for download. It looks like an interesting piece of kit.
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Post by hilsfuchs on Jun 9, 2011 18:15:03 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Please add me to the list too.
Regards, Peter
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Post by stratoblaster on Jun 9, 2011 18:41:52 GMT
Hi Charlie
Please include me on your list.
Many thanks James
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Post by gitfenburn on Jun 9, 2011 18:48:56 GMT
Hi Charlie, After hearing it at the weekend please put me down on the list !
Regards, Alan.
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streetboy
Member
As long as you know what's upside, down, inside and out you're on the right path
Posts: 153
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Post by streetboy on Jun 9, 2011 18:51:23 GMT
Hi Charlie & John,
.....looks as if I have to start putting money aside for this new 'device'. So please count me in for one.
rgds Soren
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