Sweet Dreams - Collins Hall Echo

[Charlie Hall]

I've been busy through the night, no sweet dreams for me!
I recorded this for Peter (shawbridge) as he wanted to hear the dirty echo. Played from memory as I couldn't find it on CD. I think it must be more than 10 years since I last played it!
UBHank backing track modified with EQ.
Fiesta Red replica Strat (Oh, and I didn't check or tune the guitar since tuning it before recording Shindig!), Fat 50s pickups, middle pickup, into prototype echo unit, Echomatic 2 general medium level patch, Echo Drive setting 8.5 (7.5 is default), Echo Level between 6 and 6.5, Wow & Flutter 10, Dry Level and Feedback default at 7.5, into Standel clone amp, speaker disconnected, into Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulator, into computer.
Sweet Dreams_Collins_Hall_Echo.mp3
Comments welcome.
Regards,
Charlie

[rosemary]

Hi Charlie
I would be forever happy if I could get tones like this and be able to play like this! It sounds amazing. My husband also agrees as we both listened to it a short time ago. On the technical side I could tell the echo was different from Shindig but am not 100% sure what to listen for - but the end result was fantastic!
Best wishes
Rosemary

[chrishampton1981]

Hi Charlie!

Superb version of "Sweet Dreams" with a really lovely sound and excellent playing. The multi-tap echo sounds really good and there seems to be a real warmth in the tone which is very nice. Really enjoyed hearing this one and hope more demos will come soon

Kind Regards
Chris

[ubique]

Hello Charlie
Really really nice, a gorgeous sound. Roll on rollout day!
Best regards.
Neil

[Deleted]

Hi Charlie, this sounds pretty amazing to me. I dug out the original and loaded both tracks into Mixcraft, swapping from one to the other to compare sounds. All I can say is WOW.

Regards, Graham

[Scotocaster]

Hi Charlie, once again a super sound and great playing. looking forward to more (when you have time) wil be nice to take one over to Hawaii with me so some of the guys can try it out. Have a great day. Scott

[alanmckillop]

Great stuff.

[Johan]

Hi Charlie,

Nicely played and superb sound.

When I heard your first note, struck me how soft the attack was throughout this particular demo. Looking more closely at it on the sound editor, one can see that too. The vintage-vibe guitar tone and soft attack imparts an interesting ambiance to the music piece. The overall effect balance is nice, i.e., guitar/echo/amp/speaker sim ... lots of potential there.

Question: Would it be possible for the user to set his own head timings and F/B arrangements and save them as "user settings"?

Best Regards..
Johan.

[kipper]

dont let this go to your head charlie but that was great, i agree with what Rosemary said i would be happy forever to play like that. as for the sound well it does it for me any day. peter

[shawbridge]

Hi Charlie,
Thankyou for taking the time to record that.
Superb rendition of the tune and the tone to die for, I had to keep listening to the recording you did as I couldn't beleive what I was hearing the distorted echo is amazingly like the original, I just can't understand how it can be done without a valve in sight, truly truly fantastic quality and the last notes tailing off into the distance, i have never hered anything other than a Meazzi that can deliver that kind of echo/distortion.

cheers
Peter

[guitarsam]

Hi, Charlie,

I have to agree with Peter's comments above. I've never heard anything this close to a Meazzi. "That Sound" is there alright. The warmth, the distortion on the echo, the wow & flutter, the head timings. I just have to get my hands on one of these.

Regards,
Scott

[asimmd]

Hi All

I think both the tracks are very good but,I would also like the echo exaggerated so it stands

out more,either that,or pick a tune that is awash with echo such as Kon Tiki - Wonderful Land.

Alan

[grip]

Hi Charlie,

I no longer have an original Shadows version of this for comparison, but from memory, it sounded very close indeed. It's a good choice of tune for a Demonstration as the echo really does stand out and I can hear the "valve" influence better than the Shindig file you recorded. Very well played indeed considering you haven't played in 10 years.

Kind regards,


Chris

[Jono]

Echo & tone sound great Charlie but would have preferred to hear an exaggerated echo for assessment.
Best Regards
Jono

[joeboy]

Hi Charlie

Very impressed with the new unit, it's sounding something special !! excellent playing too

[harley]

Hi Charlie

fantastic sound!! this i thought, was a much better tune to show the new unit off. Shindig is among my favourite shads numbers and it was a brilliant rendition but this tune has everything we've all been waiting to hear.

spot on!!

regards
Ian

[hubert]

;D Hello All, I have make a link to 4shared to the original song "Sweet Dreams from the shadows for comparing. Although i've been not on the list for ordering the new unit (yet, i'm out of money, and have a Q20, and i like it for now), it is sounding good, but i prefered also a little bit more echo volume on Sweet dreams. I remember the first new 79 programms for the Q2/20 came out, and i listen to them on some youtube demo's, i thought then the same, if i being correct, Charlie did reprogramm some patches?. For me, the echo-volumes from the "old 175" patches are correct, but then, there were some people who tought they sounded overprocessed. Anyway , the new unit's direct sound is more "tighten" in the low frequency's, and a little "compressed"in the attack, (witch i like), without any use of a compressor, Have a great day, Hubert. ;D

www.4shared.com/audio/42z8tCX6/Sweet_dreamsTHE_SHADOWS.html

[stratoblaster]

Hi Charlie

I've not heard this one before but i think it really showed what your unit is capable of, it sounds great.

Regards
James

[bill]

Hi Charlie,
I've managed to listen to this and Shindig but only on a laptop or with in-ear headphones. Nevertheless, very impressive demonstrations.

Compared to the mp3s of the originals yours seem less compressed or something but the echoes seem perfect as does the tone. The biggest compliment I think is that although I was listening to do the comparisons, I kept slipping into just listening to and enjoying the music. The effect is very musical.

So, would I buy one of these new units? I don't know. That would depend on what it can do or more what else it can do. Do you have or will you have a technical specification sheet? I appreciate that won't tell potential buyers how musical it sounds but it might help judge it's usefullness for more than emulating old Shadows records.

[rjanuarsa]

Nice sound Charlie. On the muted parts, I hear the longest head is the most prominent on your in relation to the other heads (heads 1,2,3).

The original has higher output on the first 3 heads, I can hear more rolling effect on the echo tails (almost like a triplet). I believe Meazzi echomatic 2 had a dedicated control to alter the level of heads 1,2,3 for this kind of setting.

Apart from that, the main tune is just spot on both on echo tone and level!

Regards,

Robby

[John Collins]

Hi Robby,
I have just downloaded the mp3 and listened to it on a notebook PC (I'm away on holiday until 16/7)
Regarding your question about the heads 1,2,3 vs head 4 echo levels in the recording. The Echomatic 2 does have a seperate pot for the combined output of the first 3 heads, as you say. Charlie mentioned in his earlier post that he used our Echomatic 2 patch called "general medium level"in the demo recording, so that patch hadn't been specifically set up for Sweet Dreams, though I think it may be pretty close! Charlie may want to add further comment.

Hi JB,
The individual head levels and timings in the patches of the new echo unit are not able to be edited or stored. There are a couple of posts by Charlie and myself back in main thread in the general section that describe in more detail how the unit functions.
At some time after I return, I intend to set up a page on my website that will contain a fuller technical description as well as the mp3 demos etc.
Regards,
John

[Charlie Hall]

Thanks to all for your comments. Sorry for not replying sooner but I haven't been too well today.

Hi Johan,
John answered your question before I could!

HI Stephen,
I think you are right about the echo volume. I recorded it before listening to the original.

Hi Alan,
I will be doing tunes that feature more echo volume later. I am trying to demonstrate how the echo is quite effective even at lower volumes, and also to show the dry tones and how playing harder causes some clipping.

Hi Hubert,
Thanks for posting the original version.
I did re-write the Q2 and Q20 patches 2 or 3 years ago, and that was done partly to address some criticism of the over-processed sound.

Hi Bill,
I hadn't thought about a spec sheet at this point. It isn't really appropriate yet as we haven't finished writing the patches.

Hi Robby,
I think the original has just as much accent on the 4th head as my version, have a careful listen to the original again. I'm not sure what you mean by rolling effect, almost like a triplet. There wouldn't be any of that with the first 3 heads at the same level. At some setting in between the two, the rolling triplet effect would be lessened, so I really don't understand what you mean.
It is much harder to detect the louder 4th head on the original but it is there if you listen for it. I tried to make the playing attack on my version as smooth as possible, but somehow Hank's playing sounds smoother, probably because his guitar was warmer sounding than mine.
We have a patch that has a louder mix of the first 3 heads but I don't think it would have sounded as accurate for this tune.

Regards,
Charlie

[rjanuarsa]

Hi Charlie,

you see, I didn't mean the first 3 heads are at the same level, they should still retain the individual level but louder collectively. Like fx123 on ESE echomatic. Am I making it worse Charlie?

I know it's very hard to explain especially for me.

regards,

Robby

[rjanuarsa]

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. I didn't realise you are also in Australia which is great.

Regards,

Robby

[John Collins]

Hi Robby,
As Charlie mentioned, we have other Echomatic 2 patches where the echo level of the first 3 heads is higher, relative to head 4, which I think is what you mean.
Also, we are still writing the patches, and there is a lot of work left to be done! We won't be releasing the unit until we are confident everything is just right.
Cheers,
John

[ly]

Hi Charlie
I'm very impressed about new echo sound and your playing.
I hope you have added me to "that list", I will buy it wharever it cost...
ly

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Robby,
I do understand what you mean. The third head is always quieter than the first two on the Echomatic 2. That ratio remains constant at any setting of the effect control on the Echomatic 2. It is just that the higher the effect control is turned up, the less bounce there is to the echo. We had that problem with the Wonderful Land patch until we reduced the levels of the first three taps by equal amounts. We already knew at that point the correct relationship between the levels of the first three heads. On the other hand, an example of a higher setting is the echo for 36-24-36 where there is less accent on the fourth head.
Regards,
Charlie

[Charlie Hall]

Hi ly,
Thanks for your comments.
I had already added your name to the list.
Regards,
Charlie

[Bojan Drndic]

Just back from vacation . . a REAL vacation, where I had no Internet access, can you imagine!!??

Charlie, without getting into any technical or other details, (which I don't undesratnd too much anyway), for me there is only one criterion -- whether the magic is there or not . . . and in your soundfile, the magic is definitely there!! It does not have to sound exactly like the original, it just has to have the magic, and when I listened to your file I felt that unmistakable excitement in my stomach and I knew I was listening to THAT SOUND!!

Bojan

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Bojan,
Thanks for your favourable comments.
Regards,
Charlie