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Post by derekb on Sept 24, 2011 15:36:32 GMT
Hello,
I'm new to the forum and would like to know the following-
I have the guitar and amp but what Zoom pedal do I need that wouold allow me to use the EOTP ?. and having aquired the pedal, how do I purchase the EOTP from Charlie Hall.
Thanks,
Derek B.
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Post by chrishampton1981 on Sept 24, 2011 15:43:40 GMT
Hi Derek! Welcome to the forum!
I'd say your best bet is to get the Zoom G2.1Nu to use Charlie's EFTP patches on which is the one that I use. It's a great sounding unit plus it has a built in expression pedal (Volume/Wah/Delay etc.) and it has a USB port which makes it easy to install the patches and record music direct to your PC. It's also got more storage space which is a bonus.
If you leave a message about EFTP in the section "Purchasing EFTP", then you'll get the details of how to contact Charlie to buy them. He sends full instructions on how to install them and it's very easy to do.
Hope this helps and I hope you enjoy your time on the site
Kind Regards
Chris
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Post by joeboy on Sept 24, 2011 16:51:56 GMT
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Post by tonybiker on Sept 24, 2011 20:27:34 GMT
Hi Derek.
I am not a fan of the Zoom G2 series for EFTP, I find the sound far too thinh sounding, unless that what you want. A Quad plus or GT in my opinion is far superiour, and a Quad Plus can be picked up for the same sort of money. I had an older Zoom 508 for a while and even that performed better that the G2. A Yamaha Magicstomp is also worth considering and on par with most units.
Chris is aware of my thoughts on the Zoom G2, and hopefully when he comes to next years 'Get Together' I will prove my point ;D
Take some advice before going down the Zoom root.
Tony
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Post by Rick on Sept 24, 2011 21:44:55 GMT
................. You could add a touch of compression,The Boss CS3 ............ The first unit for the Guitar to be plugged into is a great live workhorse.That will smooth things nicely if needed.  Best wishes, Rick. |
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Post by Jono on Sept 25, 2011 12:12:57 GMT
Hi Derek B,
Tony is quite correct about the Zoom G2 series, you must avoid them at all costs & yes the Alesis Gt & Plus are a much better plan but for the fact that they are very old (1994-98) & there are a lot of faulty one's around. The later Zoom G7 & G9's are much better investment & sound better or if you can wait then Charlie & John's unit will be a winner.
Hope this help's.
Regards
Jono
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Post by Rick on Sept 25, 2011 17:43:24 GMT
Hi Stephen,That is a cracking recording,Well done. Best wishes, Rick.
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shadmad
Member
Ready when you are Grandad!
Posts: 326
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Post by shadmad on Sept 25, 2011 18:11:00 GMT
Hi DerekB, As you have probably gathered, from all the replies,there are many units members like/dislike. I use a Zoom g7 and I am happy with it. Having said that, I am always looking to improve my sound. Possibly the best way to decide would be to listen to all the sound files(now available to you as a member)and read the technical details of equipment used,members,like Chris(Chrishampton),often list their equipment details on there music files. Just a word of warning,whatever you buy there will always be something else  Best Wishes, Garry. |
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TonyL
Member
Vintage stuff
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Post by TonyL on Sept 26, 2011 10:07:12 GMT
Agree with Chris, value for money you can't beat the G2. Why pay hundreds of pounds for an alternative unit when Charlie's own unit could be available by the end of the year? I know some members decry the G2 but I think there are more of us who are happy with it. Maybe we're "bedroom" players while the detractors are "pros".
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Post by derekb on Sept 26, 2011 10:07:50 GMT
Hello,
many thanks to everyone who replied to my query as to what pedal to buy for the EFTP sound.
However now I'm completely confused. Some of the replies tell me to avoid the Zoom pedals, others say they are very good.!
Having heard the sound sample downloaded by "shadsechoes"however played using the Zoom G2 and a Burns guitar, I thought it sounded very good indeed.
Some members who replied suggested I wait until Charlie's unit comes out. Anyone any idea when this is likely to be and at what cost ?.
Finally, I see that Zoom has just released a new unit called the G3 which looks pretty good, however are the EFTP sounds compatible with this. Perhaps Charlie could tell us.
Thanks again,
Derek B.
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Post by eltrasero on Sept 26, 2011 10:44:55 GMT
There is no need to be confused Derek. If you want to sample the joys of Charlie's echoes for home use then buy the Zoom G2 NU for around £99 and then get the patches from Charlie (for about £25 I think). That is the most cost effective setup for any home player.
The Alesis units mentioned were the first to be programmed by Charlie, but they are no longer made and any of the ones you can find on the well known auction site or whatever are mostly on their last legs. If anything goes wrong with one, you will need to pay a lot to get it repaired. I have owned, at one stage, all the Alesis units (from Quad Plus to Q20). Some were excellent (Q2, Q20), most were a noisy nightmare (Quad+).
The Yamaha Magicstomp is a good unit, but they are now very expensive to buy.
The Zoom G2NU is a 21st century unit using the latest technology, comes with its own power supply and can be used as a standalone effects unit as well as a Shadows echo unit. It really is a no brainer.
The new Zoom G3 unit is a different type of device and as yet there are no Charlie programmes available for it.
Charlie's new unit may be available later this year or early 2012 but will, I expect, cost more than the £125 the Zoom G2Nu will cost.
It all depends on how much money you are prepared to spend and how soon you want the echoes unit.
If you are on a budget, the Zoom G2 NU. If you have a few hundred pounds or Euros to spend and are not in a hurry, then wait for Charlie's new unit.
But if you opt for a unit now, be sure you get the Zoom G2NU and not one of the older G2 models which are not as good. Hope this helps to clear away some of the echo mist for you.
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TonyL
Member
Vintage stuff
Posts: 190
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Post by TonyL on Sept 26, 2011 11:00:39 GMT
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Post by tonybiker on Sept 26, 2011 15:15:17 GMT
Hi Derek.
Your question will always bring out differing opinions, that's what you get with a forum.
Charlie new unit is hopefully going to cost less than £600, that's what the figure that was being talked about in June. I have heard the unit live and it's excellent if not outstanding for duplicating those vintage shads sounds, and I understand other sounds including modern will be build in. If you have £500 floating about then you could wait for the new unit, if the budget is £200 then forget that one for a while and look for something else.
At the June Get Together event, fifty of us got together and we were able for the first time compare all sorts of gear side by side. I tried a Zoom and came away with the opinion it was not as good as the Quad series. I am sticking to that opinion because when I plugged a Zoom into my gear it did not sound as well as my Quad. I except they are all a few years old now, but they are not on their last legs.
There are many members with the Zoom who rate it and have said so. No problem with that. You can also buy a new one and you don't have to mess about on the well known auction site locating a Quad with the risk that also brings. The Zoom does produce a clean digital delay/echo, I just find the sound too thin for me, that's not saying it's a bad unit because it isn't.
The Yamaha Magicstomp is also a great unit and I am surprised it's not been mentioned as an alternative.
No matter what you ask an opinion on, if it's amp's, effects or guitars, you will always get a differing opinion otherwise we would all be using exactly the same gear.
You also need to consider what your going to do with it and what other gear your using because that will make a difference.
Tony
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Post by DaveC on Sept 26, 2011 16:01:10 GMT
Hi Derek, Confusing isn't it . There are a number of links in the chain that leads to "That Sound": 1. Your brain and fingers 2. The guitar (including strings and pickups), 3. The echo unit, 4. The preamplifier, 5. The power amp, 6. The cabinet and speakers. Then: 7. The microphone in front of the speaker, 8. The mixing desk, 9. ...etc. (at this point I await "Incoming"  ). Just dealing with the first six of these; I can't help you with 1, and 2, but your search for a pedal covers 3, 4, 5 and 6. If you already have a Vox amp or Vox amp-simulation then you've dealt with 4, 5 and 6 and are only worrying about the echoes. In this case the obvious choice is the MagicStomp + EFTP. These units fetch about £150 on the well known auction site (£200 with EFTP installed). If you buy one of these, I or somebody here will explain the software and usage to you. If you also need the amp/cabinet simulator (4, 5 and 6) then you could stick with the MagicStomp (for the echoes) and add a Korg Ampworks, a Line6 POD --- or even a second MagicStomp (for the amp sim). However I think that this would be getting a bit expensive. There are quite a few units that combine the echoes and the amp/cabinet sim and most people seem to favour the Zoom G2 range. However there are others such as the Alesis Quads and the Behringer (which I think Tony favours). Regards DaveC |
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Post by tonybiker on Sept 26, 2011 16:24:00 GMT
Hi Dave. That's an excellent post and very imformative and you are right about the many links in the chain. No incoming from this direction , and I am sure Derek will appreciate the time you took putting this together. You may still have to duck your head though ;D Tony |
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Post by joeboy on Sept 26, 2011 18:01:18 GMT
I see that Zoom has just released a new unit called the G3 which looks pretty good, however are the EFTP sounds compatible with this. Perhaps Charlie could tell us. Thanks again, Derek B. Hi Derek I doubt very much that the EFTP files would be compatible with the G3. There would be no plans for Charlie to produce EFTP for the G3 for some time as Charlie's priority is the new echo unit at the moment.  |
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Post by noelford on Sept 26, 2011 20:55:51 GMT
Derek, roughly whereabouts in the country are you. There could be a Shads/Guitar club near enough for you to go along and check out what the guys are using. There might even be a member of this forum not too far away.
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Post by harley on Sept 26, 2011 21:03:08 GMT
Hi Derek
I have owned a Zoom G2.1u (the older G2) and found it a little limited. The EFTP echoes were fine but the other features, particularly the amp sims, were a little lacking. I have also owned an alesis quad GT, a yamaha magicstomp and more recently a Zoom G7.1ut. All good units for EFTP. In my opinion the best of these units for EFTP alone was the magicstomp, whilst the best unit overall was the Zoom G7.1ut. As you will have already seen, opinions vary greatly so the best advice I can give is try as many different units as you can WITH THE EQUIPMENT YOU INTEND TO USE IT WITH. For what its worth, to date 3 people have tried my G7 and purchased one. Fantastic piece of kit if amp simulation is high on your list of requirements
Regards
Ian
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Post by eltrasero on Sept 26, 2011 23:10:46 GMT
I have no connection to Zoom, but feel I have to point out that the Zoom G2 Nu is a much better unit than the original G2. My advice to Derek (who seems to have taken fright and fled) was based on the best value for money gear available. You cannot buy any Alesis or Magicstomps new over the counter any more. They are no longer made. The units you find are 2nd/3rd/4th hand and some are in bad shape. I had a Quad+ which was a complete joke and sounded like a kettle boiling!
The price of Magicstomps has gone through the roof since Charlie's patches became available for them. I recall seeing TWO in a Glasgow guitar shop they were selling as ex display for £50 each. Happy days. The average the well known auction site price of a 2nd hand Magicstomp is now £175/£200 before the patches are added.
The Zoom units are still in production, can be bought new and come with a manufacturers guarantee and support. The G7 is a good unit, but is quite bulky. The G2 nu is cheaper, smaller, lighter, has a more advanced processor and fits easily into a bag or case for use of transport.
Without getting into any long drawn out debate over the ifs and buts of the various units, I reckon a newbie on a budget cannot go wrong with the G2 NU.
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Post by harley on Sept 26, 2011 23:34:53 GMT
Hi eltrasero
Both the G2 Nu and G7.1ut use the ZFX3 processor, so while it may indeed be cheaper, smaller, lighter and fit in a bag, the G2Nu does not have a more advanced processor than the G7.1ut. Nor does it have the energizer valve circuit. While these things may be of little importance to some, the valve circuit is, in my humble opinion, the key to the G7 (and indeed G9) having such convincing valve amp simulation. The G2Nu is indeed a good pedal, especially on a budget. The G7.1ut is also a good pedal albeit a little more expensive, but they share the same processor
regards
Ian
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Post by eltrasero on Sept 27, 2011 9:44:59 GMT
I'm clearly starting to overdose on blurb, it is the G3 which has the latest processor. But you still can't go wrong with the G2 NU as a low cost starting point to the best echoes on the market today.
As a help to newbies everywhere here's the list of Charlie's favourite echo units in order of his personal preference (his least favourites are at the top of the list). Others may disagree! The price of the programs is also shown.
Zoom 508 Free
Zoom RFX-2000 £40
Zoom RFX-2200 £40
Alesis Quadraverb Plus £50
Alesis Quad GT £50
Zoom G2 £15
Zoom G2.1u £15
Zoom G2Nu £25
Zoom G2.1Nu £25
Zoom G7.1ut £45
Zoom G9.2tt £45
Yamaha Magicstomp £25
Alesis Q2 £135
Alesis Q20 £135
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Post by Rick on Sept 27, 2011 10:24:01 GMT
Having owned a ZOOM G2 1NU for over a year now,I have to say that i have spent much time editing and tweaking.There are loads of parameters that can be adjusted.On gigs this unit is ok,Its only recently that i have been able to create really good sounds from this unit,It only takes a tweak or two on your amp to change things.I dont normally get caught like this,Im finding that the basic ZOOM 1201 studio effects unit that i picked for £20 is more live friendly as whatever deley/reverb parameter is selected i only need to tweak one knob to give anything between short and long delays.I have to say that the G2 1NU is far too clean though easily remedied though tone control or external compressor. Best wishes, Rick.
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shadmad
Member
Ready when you are Grandad!
Posts: 326
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Post by shadmad on Sept 27, 2011 11:17:10 GMT
Hi Derek, It may help if you could let everyone know as to what your requirements are,ie are you just playing as a home player and require something just to play for fun or is it something to use as a pro/semi pro? Should it be the former,then spending a great deal of money may not be of substantial benefit. Best Wishes, Garry PS,had I not have my G7,I would also feel confused  |
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Post by DaveC on Sept 27, 2011 15:46:27 GMT
Hi Eltrasero,
It's worth pointing out that Charlie's list is his preference regarding the echoes only. The amp sims come with the units and mostly you take what you get.
It's also worth pointing out that the MagicStomp will not do amp simulation and EFTP at the same time. Although some of the other patches are pretty good they aren't going to be any use for Shadowing. (Actually some of them are useful for Bruceing and Liquoricing --- but not Hanking!)
Charlie's new unit will be dedicated to EFTP only, so Derek would still have to make a decision about the amp.
The output from any of the amp sims is "ready to go" apart from volume. It is intended for headphones, home HiFi, an acoustic (i.e. flat frequency response) guitar amplifier, the house PA or the studio mixing desk. Putting it through a typical guitar amplifier just adds an extra layer of colouration. I suspect this is the problem that Rick had.
Please get back to us Derek, you've triggered a fascinating thread!
Regards
DaveC
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Post by eltrasero on Sept 27, 2011 16:05:30 GMT
I may have misread the original question, but I thought he already had a guitar and amp and wanted to know which Zoom pedal to get for echoes? Hence the steer in the direction of the G2NU. Cheapest and readily available to buy from new without having to deal with the well known auction site cowboys and profiteers.
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Post by derekb on Oct 3, 2011 18:46:48 GMT
Hello,
Thanks to everyone who contributed to my question as to which pedal I need to get the best from EFTP and no I hav'nt done a runner or disappeared !.
Just to clarify things- I have a Burns Marvin( the aniversary one brought out about 10 years ago with the cert signed by Hank) and a Line 6 Bogner Modelling amp. I thought that these 2 together with the right pedal and EFTP would give me the Shads sound. Even though the Line 6 amp has lots of settings on it, including echo, reverb etc. I still can't get that sound without EFTP.
I only play at home(badly) but would like to get involved in Shads music if possiblel . I live in Bexleyheath, Kent just outside SE London and also play keyboards- probably a little bit better than guitar but love them both.
Hope that clarifies things and thanks again.
Regards,
Derek .B.
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Post by DaveC on Oct 3, 2011 22:57:09 GMT
Hi Derek, Welcome back ! The Burns will make a great contribution to the guitar sound and the Line6 amp will provide excellent simulations of all the Vox amps (AC15, AC30/4, AC30/6TB). I believe there's a Matchless in there as well. This means that all you actually need is the echoes and for this the best candidate has to be the MagicStomp. Although I don't share Eltrasero's distrust of the well known auction site, he's quite right to point out that MagicStomps are now fetching silly prices. Last week one (without EFTP) sold for £215. I think that the Line6 will also produce good clean acoustic sounds so you could still consider the Zoom G2 range. This would mean that the pedal provides echoes + amp simulation and the Line6 merely makes it all louder (or takes no part at all if you use headphones). I have no personal experience of the Zoom pedals so I'd hesitate to recommend or condemn --- only point out that the top of the range G2.1Nu (with integral foot pedal) can be had for £120 new. This seems like a bargain entry price to Shadowland. Regards DaveC |
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Post by trickytree on Oct 9, 2011 13:31:23 GMT
Hope im not hijacking the thread but as a zoom G2 with eftp user I was wondering if I would notice a difference in the echoes if I purchased a new G2N. I would love to be able to purchase Charlies new upcoming unit but with talk of it costing around the £500 mark I wont be able to for a while.
Ive had a lot of pleasure out of using the G2 and £99 plus £25 for the G2N & eftp would be more within my budget.
Ian
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Post by trickytree on Oct 9, 2011 15:42:43 GMT
Stephen thats a really nice version of Blue Star, very impressed!
Ian
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Best wishes, Rick.
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