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Post by garryc on Jan 19, 2012 21:14:11 GMT
Hi all
This is only my second posting since joining but I wonder if anyone can advise which would be better for home use only. I use a Burns Marquee and a Squier strat with a Vox Tonelab LE through a Vox Valvetronix AD 60 (did have a Fender Princeton Chorus but changed it for a Vox) The Tonelab has settings that Charlie sent me last year which has made a big difference sound wise. I don't use any settings on the amp but I was wondering if I would achieve a better sound through a small PA system instead and also be able to play backing tracks from laptop into PA and be able to balance both sounds better. The backings from laptop don't seem to play as good through amp as they do through the Pc speakers and it's hard to get the right balance. I have also noticed I seem to get a better sound when I use headphones from Tonelab and not use the amp. Dont want to use headphones all the time as I already have Tinitus in one ear and dont want to ruin the other one. Thats why I am asking if anybody could advise which would be better Amp or PA
Thanks all
Garry
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Post by George Lewis on Jan 20, 2012 7:59:57 GMT
Hi Garry (the imp ...),
For home use and assuming you are prepared to experiment with the Vox Tonelab ... a couple of comments.
Yes, a small PA would be suitable and better and lighter than a guitar amp for both BT's and Tonelab output, and ... mixing them.
A reasonably good set of powered PC/Studio monitors with basic mixing facilities would also be suitable.
Something to consider is how influenced you are by the "joy de vive" of a loud live sound when you play. I have never taken to headphones and for recording/practicing prefer the principal of "If I'm having a good time .. why should the neighbours complain"
Mind you .. our nearest neighbour is about a mile away ... a baby boomer drummer who's 60's band was called "The Foot Tappers" !
Also, he is, like most drummers, pretty well totally deaf !!
If you are even half serious about Shad's music ... get EFTP (my option) or if you are serious and also have carefully measured "LifeSpan/Money Left" ratio ... get a TVS (I'm currently in discussion with my Cardiologist ... a youngish bloke, never heard of the Shads and doesn't seem to understand why accurate "years left" is an issue.)
Good luck you should have plenty of options to consider.
Cheers
George
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Post by bazmusicman on Jan 20, 2012 9:26:17 GMT
Hi George,
I really like your "Life Span/Money Left" idea of thinking!
I did the same thing about three years ago, I "bit the bullet" spent all the kids inheritance and bought a TVS3.
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Post by Tone on Jan 20, 2012 10:56:58 GMT
I've done the same thing myself and have long since got over the inital guilt feelings!
Baz, you coyly didn't mention the other exotic kit you've acquired......
On a more serious note regarding Garry's question, the consensus seems to be that if you use an effects unit with amp simulation you should turn off the amp simulation if you're playing through an amp because otherwise the sound is coloured too much but it's fine when using a PA. My setup allows both methods but I prefer to have the guitar going into an echo unit and then into the amp and I just use the PA for BTs.
Cheers.
Tony
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Post by didier on Jan 20, 2012 14:32:36 GMT
the consensus seems to be that if you use an effects unit with amp simulation you should turn off the amp simulation if you're playing through an amp because otherwise the sound is coloured too much but it's fine when using a PA. A guitar amp is not an Hi-Fi amp, it's not neutral and always adds its own sound to the guitar sound. It's perfectly obvious that when you are using a guitar amp which is bringing its own sound, you shouldn't use at the same time any amp simulation ! Amp simulation is only intended to be used when using a more or less "neutral" sound chain, through a PA or for direct recording. Didier |
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Post by zager on Jan 20, 2012 15:12:52 GMT
Hi Garry, you have to switch the tone lab to amp on the back of the unit. If you have it set to line its suitable for di recording only. When switched to the amp setting it sounds ok with a guitar amp. Not ideal but good enough. As Deider says a guitar amp colours the sound so you have to try and compensate for it. if your using it at home you should try it without the guitar amp. You will get a good sound this way and one less eq to work with. There are some good recordings on this site using the tonelab on its own. Regards Tony
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Post by garryc on Jan 20, 2012 20:21:12 GMT
Hi all
Thanks for the replays, certainly got me thinking about a PA system.
George: Maybe I should get rid of the Tonelab and go for something with eftp although I am pleased with the improvement Charlie's recommended settings made, cannot see the wife being to happy spending her retirement payment on a TVS.
Tone (Tony): I use all the Tonelab settings including amp settings as per Charlie's recommendations but I don't use any amp settings I bypass them all and just play straight through the speaker of the amp. It's just the BT's that don't sound as good
Telstars (Tony): The Tonelab is set to amp not line. I don't understand when you say try without the amp, what do I play guitar through? Where do I find the recordings which use the Tonelab? Would like to listen to sound other people achieve with Tonelab.
Anyway thanks once again guys for all the replays
Garry
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Post by Bojan Drndic on Jan 20, 2012 20:51:00 GMT
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Post by garryc on Jan 20, 2012 22:19:28 GMT
Hi Bojan
Thanks for those links, great sound, think the answer is the good echo unit plus the strat and of coarse being a good player
Regards
Garry
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Post by Rick on Jan 20, 2012 23:03:07 GMT
Hi Bojan.That is a great contribution,Thankyou for posting it. ............. Now THAT is the sound. .......... With the longtom. ................ When is somebody out there going to re-produce tape echo units ! Best wishes. Rick.
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Post by zager on Jan 20, 2012 23:20:03 GMT
hi garry, use misread my post . it said dont use the guitar amp meaning the valvetronix ad60. regards tony
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Post by George Lewis on Jan 21, 2012 8:01:17 GMT
Hi Garry,
Hang on, don't be hasty .. it is something that needs to be considered carefully ... a good wife takes time and is not easy to come by ... however why not check with Spike and the TVS team, they may be taking trade-ins in these difficult financial times.
Alternately be patient .. definitely keep the Tonelab as per wise council from Bojan (a man of few words).
and why not wait till Charlie/John Collins' echo unit is released. With any luck you can keep the Tonelab and the Wife ... however, the 50 KG Gorilla guitar amp may have to go.
cheers
George
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Post by Bojan Drndic on Jan 21, 2012 12:25:52 GMT
Now to disprove George regarding my succinctness (my wife says I can't stop talking) ;D I don't know if you are aware of this Garry, but the Tonelab and the Valvetronix amp use the same Korg amp modeling technology, and the Tonelab really represents the "Valvetronix" in your amp. So, the Tonelab is a Valvetronix amp without the amp -- more or less. If I had both, I would ditch the amp and keep the Tonelab. Even if you gig, the Tonelab into a PA would do the business better than your amp -- at least I think so. I have a similar thing at home -- a little beast called Korg Ampworks, which is a simple dedicated amp modeling processor, also made by Korg and also using its REMS technology (no longer made, I think it has been suceeded by the Pandora). It's basically a simplified and much cheaper version of a Tonelab. I use it in two ways: either directly into the PC, in which case I use it with the ETAP2 echo plugin to get excellent results, or into a Vox T-25 bass amp with all tone settings all the way down. The dry tone is definitely the Shadows tone, but right now I am using a Zoom 508 with it, and as soon as I get a decent echo, and by that I mean a Magic Stomp at least, but ideally the new Hall & Collins Echo (regrettably, I haven't been able to talk Spike into letting me trade 24 hours with Ana Ivanovic for a TVS3) I think it will sound divine . . . so as George says, we need to be patient.  |
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Post by bazmusicman on Jan 22, 2012 10:50:07 GMT
Hi Tony,
What "exotic gear" were you referring too? The JMI AMP or BOSE LI MK.2 or both?
By the way the guilty feeling disappeared quite quickly!!
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