Wire-wound strings.

[stratomaster]

I'm using genuine D'Addario .011 - .049 strings, but I do find the noise of fingers rasping on the strings, can be very annoying.
The same noise can be pleasing when changing from 'semi' chords in some circumstances.
Maybe I'm just being too critical, or I need to change to tapewound strings?

James.

[rogercook]

A string lubricant like Fastfret may help with the noise

Roger

[martyn]

Have you tried the coated Elixir Nanowebs? I use both 11s and 10s and find them less noisy than some I've tried.

Martyn

[marvingers]

Hi!

Elixir is the best, I have used them on all my guitars since 10 years back. They last very long and with a good sound.

Best regards!
Lars G. Vinger

[tremo]

Man, flatwound strings sound totally different than roundwounds. They don't have nearly as much snap and high end.

I have a friend who uses a set of .013 flats on his Strat, it's a nightmare to play his guitar.

I've been using the D'Addario EPN pure nickel set in .011 to .048 on both my Strat and my Les Paul. They sound great and last a long time.

[abstamaria]

Yes, flatwounds have a completely different sound - very mellow, less bright in the lower registers. I am convinced the early Ventures pieces were played with fat flatwounds (try it). The Jazzmaster and early Stratocasters appear to have been delivered, at least in the US, with flatwounds. There is a suggestion that the sound of the original "Apache" is due to flatwounds, and that is a plausible (but not a popular) theory.

I use roundwound 12-52 D'Addarios and don't have that much of an issue with string noise. You could hear occasional string noise on some of Hank's pieces (e.g., on "Atlantis"), so if you want to be authentic ...

[didier]

Feb 7, 2012 8:30:26 GMT abstamaria said:

Yes, flatwounds have a completely different sound - very mellow, less bright in the lower registers. I am convinced the early Ventures pieces were played with fat flatwounds (try it). The Jazzmaster and early Stratocasters appear to have been delivered, at least in the US, with flatwounds. There is a suggestion that the sound of the original "Apache" is due to flatwounds, and that is a plausible (but not a popular) theory.

In the early sixties, all the Strats I saw (but couldn't buy) in the Paris music shops were fitted with flatwound strings.
Some of my friends play with d'Addario ECG25 12-52 flatwound strings, but there are lighter gauge strings in the same range (ECG24 and ECG23).

Didier

[stratomaster]

Thanks all for those useful replies. I hadn't considered lubricating the strings, which maybe will also make the sound less bright?
My strings are nickel wound BTW.

I remember always using tapewound strings as a bass player, and have seen them fitted to guitars used for lead and rhythm

[pinktwanger]

Hi Guys
I use D'Addario half round strings which are a wound string which has been ground flatter. This gives me less string noise but I feel retains the twang. I like 'em. Give 'em a try.
Cheers Ben

[rogercook]

I'm using Ernie Ball Beefy Slinky at the moment (plain third). I use a little Fastfret occasionally and it makes the strings feel "slicker" and I haven't noticed any dulling of sound.

I have tape wounds on my fat jazzer and they produce a very different tone but one that might be close to the "dead strings" heard on some of the Shads early stuff. I haven't tried them on a Strat though

[stratomaster]

Once again, thanks for the interesting feedback.
Roger mentions early Shadows 'dead strings', a lot of us strive to replicate that early sound, so for the cost of a set of flatwound strings, it must be worth trying them.

Roger, what make and weight do you recommend for a Strat for that 'early sound'?

James.

[abstamaria]

James, assuming Hank simply kept using what came with his Stratocaster (likely in those cash-strapped times), those would have been fairly heavy strings. At least 12-52 and possibly 13-56! Andy

[stratomaster]

Feb 7, 2012 23:10:41 GMT abstamaria said:

James, assuming Hank simply kept using what came with his Stratocaster (likely in those cash-strapped times), those would have been fairly heavy strings. At least 12-52 and possibly 13-56! Andy

Andy, 13-56 The trem block would have been at its limit, and the Strat looking like a crossbow ;D

James

[Rick]

............ lol !

[abstamaria]

[quote Andy, 13-56 The trem block would have been at its limit, and the Strat looking like a crossbow ;D James[/quote]

One might think so, but a guitarist here is using a 56. Those are still light-weight strings, when compared to what Dick Dale of Misirlo fame is said to use - 16p, 18p, 20p. 38w, 48w, 58w.

We electric guitar guys seem like wimps compared to our acoustic brethren. The 12-52s I use - heavier than most here on the forum use - are actually classed as "light." A D'Addario "medium" weight set will typically be 0.013 0.017 0.026 0.035 0.045 0.056.

And "Heavy"? 0.014 0.018 0.027 0.039 0.049 0.059!

There is incidentally a good article on the net by someone who tested several string sets for the early Ventures sounds. He recommended two flat-wound brands. Pyramid I recall is one, the other is Thomastik-Infeld, which I then fitted to a Jazzmaster. They sound really good - George Benson Nickel Flat Wound Jazz Guitar Strings 12-53. I am thinking of fitting the same to a Strat for early Ventures rhythm work. I will try that for "Apache" too and let you know.

Best regards,

Andy

[tremo]

Guys don't forget that if you make a major change in strings, you will have to reset the intonation and check the neck for relief and probably adjust the truss rod. Heavier strings will put more bow in the neck so you'll have to tighten the truss rod to get it back to where it's supposed to be. You'll need to go to 5 springs in the trem as well.

[stratomaster]

Andy, thanks for those added facts which are very interesting, and also for not taking my tongue in cheek comments too seriously.

Re. you trying some George Benson Nickel Flat Wound Jazz Guitar Strings 12-53, don't forget to get back with a review.

Tremo, you a correct about checking the neck etc., when I changed to 11-49 gauge strings, I had to adjust the neck of my Strat, and I also followed Erikmams excellent method of adjusting the trem-block, albeit a debate about how many trem springs and their positioning ensued ;D

James.

[bor64]

Don't worry about 13-58 strings on a strat,I have 14-62 on one of my strats.....and that guitar will be 54 years old next Augustus.
They sound great btw, on my other strats I use 11-52.

[abstamaria]

You are welcome, James. The Thomastic Infields are high quality strings, very well made. Their flatwounds sound good on the Jazzmaster for an early Bob-Bogle Ventures sound. Let's see if they would be all right for a Stratocaster for "Apache."

Those are seriously thick strings, Rob. Do you you the 14-62 for early Shadows pieces? I don't think I will be brave enough to try those strings!

Best regards,

Andy

[didier]

Here is a document about strings written by Patrice Bastien. Patrice is an expert in vintage guitars. He ran for 20 years a vintage guitar import business in Paris and sold a 1958 Strat to Hank Marvin in 1980. He writes technical articles for guitar magazines, and is the founder and lead guitarist of "Guitar Express", the most renowned Shadows tribute band in France, and the only French band having played at Shadowmania :

New remark on guitars, this time about strings :

It’s a "driving"part for "that sound" which should not be neglected. So :
The type and gauge of strings wich were fitted on Hank’s stratocster are already by themselves a great debate subject !
Nevetheless, about gauge there is no doubts that :
Between 1960 and 1963, Hank was using heavy gauge strings on his Stratocasters.
Which were at least of the 12-52 gaure, and more probably 13-56. As a consequence with always a wound G string. This particular point must automatically be met if you want to put yoursefl back in the original context…
Now, about string "types" used by Hank, either flatwound or roundwound ?
I think Hank certainly had the opportunity to use both !
However :
I bought in 2002 the Hank Marvin’s European Tour program in 2002 when he performed at the Paris Olympia, there is a double page pic with Jet Harris and Tony Meehan showing that at least in 1961, at the time of "The Young ones" film (The Savage, Peace Pipe) his Stratocaster was likely fitted with strings of the "flatwound" type…
And it just happens that during all the numerous tests I personnaly made, the "best" results in tone I obtained to approach "That Sound" were just with D’Addario flatwound strings, either of the 12-52 or 13-56 gauge, as indicated above, either to reproduce the tone from the first period (1960) with the "maple neck" Stratocaster, or to the one corresponding to the second period (1961/1963) with the rosewood fingerboard Stratocaster…
But the comparison should be stopped here, because :
It’s unfortunatly obvious and "unavoidable" that on the manufacturers’ side, production "changes" occured in relationship with metals, alloy and components evolutions (from the "core" to the external wound) certainly brough tone differences with time passing...
In the end I can even take the risk to say (or maintain) that the same string reference from the same maker are completly different forty years later.

So ?
Each one is free to test on his own guitar the sting gauge and type which suits best… But at least follow the "heavy gauge" requirement.

Patrice Bastien

Translation : Didier

[bor64]

Andy,
14-62 are indeed heavy strings,but aren't to difficult to play and bend.
It's all getting used to it.....
They sounds great,have a listen,if you like.
Left it's me and at the right well some blokes we all know ;D


www.4shared.com/file/104453706/9a394178/happybirthday21mod.html

[stratomaster]

It seems that important companies linked to the music industry read Charlie's forum.

I've received a very nice communication from a D'Addario marketing executive, and I've been offered the opportunity to try a sample of the D'Addario half round strings.

Of course I accepted this kind offer, and I'll post up a review when they are fitted.
I have D'Addario very light nickel wirewound 8's fitted to my Gibson Les Paul copy, and the 'string noise' is not so obvious.

I'm really interested to evaluate these half round strings in a heavier gauge.

James.

[rogercook]

James

I neglected to repy to your question about gauges for the flat wounds. I have D'Addario Chromes 13-56 on the jazzer but I've never tried them on a Strat

Roger

[abstamaria]

Didier, thank you for translating and posting Patrice's article. it truly seems likely the early Shadows pieces were played with heavy flatwound strings.

That sounds very authentic, bor64. Many thanks.

Andy