|
Post by Cruachan on Jan 1, 2013 0:11:30 GMT
Hi all, Am sitting here with the lady of the house waiting to usher in the New Year with a wee dram. The Proclaimers are assailing my ears on the tele as my thoughts drift to ponder such fundamental issues such as the merits of maple versus rosewood fretboards on Fender Strats. I have an American Deluxe with a maple neck/fretboard and maintenance is very easy. From what I've read, the same cannot be said of rosewood fretboards which seem to require periodic cleaning and oiling. Some say the maple boards produce a brighter tone than the rosewood which I find hard to understand, but hey, who am I to make such judgements? It would be interesting to hear the views of those who have had experience of both. Oh, Mons Meg has just given voice from the battlements of Edinburgh Castle announcing the entrance of 2013. A very Happy and Prosperous New Year to one and all here on the forums!! Mike
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Jan 1, 2013 10:46:53 GMT
Happy New Year. Maple fingerboard doesn't really add anything as the neck is maple in the first place. Rosewood is said to absorb some frequencies. The difference is nothing that you couldn't overcome with EQ. People will tell you they can hear the difference, but... On a finished recording, I defy anyone to be able to tell which was used on a blind test. Personally, most of mine are maple boards (the Fenders/Fender-a-likes), but I don't have a preference - out of them, my favourite has an ebony board, anyway. The three guitars that are out in my living room at the moment all have rosewood boards... For me, it's too insignificant to matter - I play all sorts of guitars, so the detail differences don't affect me. By the way, when did the 'telly' become the "tele"? One's a box in the corner of the room, the other's a gotgeous blonde that I can't keep my hands off. All the best, Julian
|
|
|
Post by Cruachan on Jan 1, 2013 12:08:20 GMT
Hi Julian, Oops, my mistake. I was in fact referring to the box in the corner of the room Any reason why most of your guitars have maple necks/fretboards? Is it aesthetics or simply down to the fact that they are less of a hassle to look after and maintain their appearance? Oddly enough, from the aesthetics point of view, that's the main reason why I favoured the Strat when I rejoined this hobby after so many years. I don't like the 'Tele' (got it right this time) body/scratchplate/control positioning design whereas the Strat just seems perfect in every respect. Silly I know, but, like many things, I suspect individual preference, aesthetics or otherwise, rules the day for most normal folk. Regards, Mike
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Jan 2, 2013 15:59:55 GMT
Mike, The question of why? Mostly, that's what was in the shop at the time, some were only available with a maple board, two because it suited the overall appearance... the Fenders/F-a-likes only account for about half of them, the rest are rosewood and ebony. I kind of agree about the Tele, regarding the pickguard shape and control layout, though I don't get on with the standard Strat control layout, either. Perfect guitar? Hmm? I have an expensive Strat-a-like (with ebony board) that has an onboard pre-amp. You can boost mids for a more rocky Les Paul-esque sound, boost highs and lows - vaguely Telecasterish/jazz guitar depending on how you fiddle with the tone control, or straight-forward Strat sounds and a much better vibrato unit... a custom made pair, based on a Strat, controls exactly where I wanted 'em, neck shape exactly how I wanted, pickup configuration that more or less covers everything - one guitar for the whole set... at the end of the day, I could still cover everything with a good Telecaster. I think there are perfect guitars for certain situations - Strat types for Shadows being the obvious example. My two examples I mentioned above cover a variety of different sounds, but you can get bogged down with thinking about what pickup you 'should' be on etc. A good, versatile amp and a simple guitar is REALLY all anyone needs, but it's easy to say that when you have enough guitars and equipment to cover nearly every conceivable eventuality. The older I get, the more I think the 'perfect guitar' is a twin cutaway Les Paul Junior - one P90 pickup, volume and tone - or better still a good acoustic. Cheers, Julian PS. The telly/tele thing...it's one of my ever increasing list of pet ahtes. When I was a kid, a TV was a telly. Whether it's modern kids or the internet, I dunno, but recently people have been spelling it 'tele'.They're/there/their is one and lend/borrow is another. As I get older (I'm 45) I find I get more like my Dad and Grandad.
|
|
|
Post by didier on Jan 2, 2013 16:24:56 GMT
Not being a player myself, I can't tell if there is a real difference in sound, but I much prefer the look of maple fingerboard, particularly the birdseyes ones... Didier
|
|
|
Post by Cruachan on Jan 2, 2013 16:54:23 GMT
84 views and only 2 respondents so far, really? My question was not meant to be rhetorical..lol. Thanks Julian..and Didier I think you're being far too modest I must say I'm having a hard time believing that so few of you have an opinion on this matter. Perhaps I should elaborate by confessing the reason for posting my question. For the past 2-3 weeks I've had my eye on a beautiful Strat hanging in one of our local instrument shops. It's pretty expensive and I probably shouldn't even be considering such a rash move, but you all know how it is and resistance in such instances is probably futile My current pride and joy is an American Deluxe which has a one piece maple neck/fretboard married to an amber alder body and brown pick/scratch guard. It has a sensuously smooth neck, looks great, plays well (has samarian cobalt noiseless pups) and is the other love of my life these days. The instrument in question is the latest version of the American Deluxe, has the new N3 Alnico pups with revised wiring which, in certain switching configurations, I understand go some way towards creating that classic Strat chime. It also has a maple neck but with a rosewood fretboard and a 3-colour Sunburst alder body with white pick/scratch guard. To be honest, I would prefer the all maple neck and board but for no rational reason other than appearance and, from experience, ease of maintenance. On the other hand, this new contender is also a wonderful looker and my reasons for hesitating may seem rather trivial and irrational to those who have had experience of both maple and rosewood boards. Yet few seem motivated to contribute to this thread so far and I'm wondering why? Perhaps this topic has been done to death in the past but, as yet, my searches on the forum haven't turned anything up. Does rosewood really affect the quality of sound in any significant way? Indeed, am I likely to notice? Does any of this really matter and should I just follow my gut instinct and bow to those impulsive desires? ;D Mike
|
|
|
Post by mojolomjl on Jan 2, 2013 17:25:41 GMT
Hi Mike, I think you answered your own question in your last sentence, you just need to try it, and if it feels right then go for it (we only pass this way once). One of my strats has a maple neck and all the others are maple/rosewood and to be honest I can't really feel any difference between the two. Best regards, Maurice.
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Jan 2, 2013 18:27:39 GMT
Mike, I agree with Maurice. You only live once. I think the Shadows fans prefer maple - 'cos HBM seems to. The guitar world in general seems to prefer rosewood...'cos of an alleged tonal difference, though on old ones 59-62 it's a proper slab board, whereas 63-approx 80 is a thin veneer, so... In my experience, the edge of a rosewood board tends to be rounded over during finishing, maple tends only to be done on the top end guitars (probably because of the lacquering) making for a more comfortable feel in the hand. The sound and playability stuff I'm not convinced by - guitarists talk a lot of cobblers sometimes. When it comes to maple, by the way, birdseye and flamed looks nice, but it isn't as good as quarter sawn for tone or stability. It costs more on a guitar, because there isn't much about, but it's actually a deformity in the wood, so it doesn't cost any more to buy (I have a cheap Far Eastern Strat-a-like here with a flamed maple neck). Like Maurice says. Try it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, leave it.
|
|
|
Post by frankmarvin on Jan 2, 2013 20:44:23 GMT
Julian, The cheap far eastern with a flamed maple neck that you refer to is, I hope , a guitar and not some Thai Bride that got their hooks into you? ( sorry , couldnt resist ) Frank:
|
|
|
Post by Charlie Hall on Jan 2, 2013 21:15:07 GMT
Hi Mike, A refret is cheaper for a rosewood board than a maple board, because a maple board has to be refinished every time a refret is done. I think Brazilian rosewood (found on 60s Fenders) can give a more mellow sound than Indian Rosewood, with Indian rosewood coming a bit closer in sound to maple, in my opinion. Indian rosewood tends to be a bit dry, more open grained, and therefore rougher in feel. Applications of lemon oil can help to smooth it and make it appear darker too. Brazilian rosewood is a highly protected species these days, so unless you are looking for an older instrument, you probably won't come across a guitar with a Brazilian rosewood board. Didier mentioned birdseye maple. I have found that birdseye maple, while attractive in appearance, can be somewhat unstable compared to plain straight grained maple. I always feel safer choosing the latter now. My overall preference on Fenders now is for maple over rosewood, but Brazilian rosewood feels very nice to play. Regards, Charlie
|
|
|
Post by didier on Jan 2, 2013 21:49:34 GMT
Didier mentioned birdseye maple. I have found that birdseye maple, while attractive in appearance, can be somewhat unstable compared to plain straight grained maple. I always feel safer choosing the latter now. My overall preference on Fenders now is for maple over rosewood, but Brazilian rosewood feels very nice to play. Regards, Charlie My opinion was based only on look, but you are certainly right about birdseye maple being unstable with time. I have read many comments stating the same. BTW, in december 1980, when Hank Marvin bought a 1958 Strat from Patrice Bastien in Paris, it was one with maple fretboard, although Patrice also proposed him a 1961/62 Strat with rosewood fretboard ! Didier
|
|
|
Post by Charlie Hall on Jan 3, 2013 3:42:24 GMT
Hi Steve, It would only be for the feel. A gloss finish tends to feel sticky especially when the fingers start to become sweaty. I matted both of my nitro finish necks with very fine abrasive paper, and they feel much better. It takes a long time on the fretboard side because of having to be careful to avoid sanding the frets. I waited a few months for the finish on both to harden before doing this though, or it might have done more harm than good. Poly finish necks could probably benefit from a similar treatment, I first did this to a Japanese Strat I used to own and it also felt better. Regards, Charlie
|
|
|
Post by George Lewis on Jan 3, 2013 7:36:50 GMT
Hi Mike, My 2 cents worth ... For looks ... I'm with Didier. For feel ... I'm with Charlie's suggestions. For tone ... I'm with Julian. If my guitar has full Maple .. that's what I prefer. If it has Rosewood .. then that's what I prefer. Over to your preferences. cheers George
|
|
|
Post by DaveC on Jan 3, 2013 7:47:26 GMT
Warmoth say that the relative instability of Birdseye Maple is a myth. They point out that they have made tens of thousands of necks and have never seen any problems.
Birdseye and Flame are just varieties of Hard Maple (Acer saccharum) and all Maple is prone to warping if it isn't finished.
If you are building a Maple neck from scratch then a satin finish (on the back) is best.
Regards DaveC
|
|
|
Post by rosemary on Jan 3, 2013 12:22:48 GMT
Hi Both my Strats are rosewood and my Squier interstate is the colour of rosewood but I'm not sure what it is. It's lovely and smooth to play in any case. One thing I was wondering, getting older and with eyesight getting worse is whether the contrast is better on the rosewood. I've played a maple guitar and didn't have a problem but maybe different lighting conditions are easier on one than the other. Best wishes Rosemary
|
|
|
Post by bor64 on Jan 3, 2013 16:28:53 GMT
Rosemary,low light situations are never easy to handle a guitar maple or rosewood. To much light on a maple neck is also a disaster to play. Long time ago we had a very enthusiastic lights technician,he thought because the gig was filmed more is better... In our opening tune Frightened City I couldn't see what I was doing on my maple neck,because of the light bouncing towards my eyes via the fretboard....trying to get attention I managed to play nearly blind and gave a shout towards the geezer behind the light. He got an epiphany and directed the 1000w beam direct in my face,because he was convinced, I needed to be in the spotlight while I was playing.... Lucky enough our singer grabbed him by his jacket and gave him a friendly banter From that moment on....I know how a rabbit feels in the headlight of a car.... It was about 5 or 6 numbers onwards in the gig my eyes functioned normal.... So you see ,to much light is also not good for your playing
|
|
|
Post by Charlie Hall on Jan 3, 2013 17:14:48 GMT
Hi DaveC, I didn't mention it before, but the birdseye maple neck I had somewhat negative experience of was a Warmoth. I think this was from the days before they were licensed by Fender. Nevertheless I accepted it for what it was and didn't complain, so of course as far as my neck was concerned, Warmoth didn't receive a complaint! I just had to continually keep an eye on the neck relief and adjust the truss rod as needed, quite often too. A while later, I also realised that it sounded strange no matter what guitar it was fitted to. I gave up on it in the end. I am also not the only one to comment negatively about birdseye maple. The neck on my favourite Strat replica is also a Warmoth (straight plain grain) and is excellent, you would have thought they were from different manufacturers if you could have compared them. My point of this post is to take notice of end users as well as manufacturers. Regards, Charlie
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Jan 3, 2013 21:03:25 GMT
The birdseye situation is very much fact. What is a myth is that the phrase 'Licensed by Fender' guarantees quality. All it means is that the company concerned has permission to manufacture and sell bodies & necks with Strat, Tele and Fender Bass shaped heads in the U.S. They're not going to admit that one or more of their products are potentially iffy. As it happens, Warmouth products are top notch, but they aren't the only ones 'Licensed by Fender' and some of the others aren't of the same standard. A neck with a seperate fingerboard is also more stable than a one piece neck. Regarding the dots on rosewood visibility, paradoxically the cheaper guitars tend to have the more visible dots. The cheap stuff tends to have plain white plastic dots, whereas the more expensive guitars go with pearl-esque styles, that have a habit of being less visible from an angle. Ideally, you want to use the dots up the side of the neck and learn to find your way round the neck by feel. @frank, sadly, I am talking about a guitar. I worked in China and Hong Kong for a while ten years ago and saw some of the most beautiful ladies over there. Unfortunately, I'm 6ft tall and well... they're not! I think the tallest lady I saw out there was the lovely young waitress who kept me from starving to death (I don't like real Chinese food) and she was only shoulder height. Cheers, Julian
|
|
|
Post by s4wgb on Jan 3, 2013 22:26:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by s4wgb on Jan 3, 2013 22:26:53 GMT
|
|
|
Post by s4wgb on Jan 3, 2013 22:27:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by s4wgb on Jan 3, 2013 22:29:18 GMT
Above are 3 pics of my new toy i have just finished. The body is 1 piece Honduras Mahogany and the neck (back) is 1/4 sawn flame maple (picture) below. The finger board is Brazillian Rosewood. Also fitted with faux clay dots. What do you think? It was going to be Fiesta red but there are to many combinations so i kept it natural.
|
|
|
Post by s4wgb on Jan 3, 2013 22:31:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by DaveC on Jan 3, 2013 22:42:18 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Almost all the reports I've read are of the second hand variety ("It's rumoured that...") so it's interesting to hear first-hand about your problem with the Warmoth neck. I'm not sure that it can be positively connected to the "Birdseye" (rather than just a rogue neck) but it's a definite possibility.
For what it's worth, the second-best neck I own is a Warmoth AAA Birdseye with an Ebony fingerboard. The best one (for feel) is Wenge/Ebony -- but it doesn't look as good as the Maple.
Regards DaveC
|
|
|
Post by frankmarvin on Jan 4, 2013 0:06:34 GMT
s4wgb: That is a beautiful guitar , congratulations and well done: Regards, Frank:
|
|
|
Post by Cruachan on Jan 4, 2013 0:24:55 GMT
Well, after what threatened to be a non-starter this thread has really taken off and I thank you all for your excellent and informative contributions. It's certainly given me much to think about. Keep them coming!
May I be the second (Frank beat me to it!) to congratulate s4wgb (although I would much prefer to be able to address you by name) on your wonderful finished project! She is a real beauty and you should be very proud of this achievement. Please tell us more about it. I wish I had such skills. Brazilian Rosewood fretboard, eh? In view of Charlie's comments how did you come upon such a rare item? Must have cost an arm and a leg!
You will be interested to know that I've decided to place this acquisition on hold for the time being. The missus had arranged to go out this afternoon for an afternoon Spa Christmas treat and I was plotting to use this time to go try out the Fender. Then the doorbell rang to announce the impromptu arrival of my daughter, son-in-law and 9 year old grandson! Ah well, perhaps it was the timely intervention of fate. If I'm really going to spend that sort of money on a second American Deluxe, which I probably don't need, then I need to take more time to consider the wisdom of such a rash action. Somehow my gut tells me what the eventual outcome will be. How long can I hold out, I wonder?
Cheers everyone! You have been most helpful.
Mike
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 9:44:54 GMT
I have guitars with maple rosewood and ebony fingerboards
I dont have a preference, I like them all. They look different for sure.
George
|
|
|
Post by s4wgb on Jan 4, 2013 11:15:39 GMT
s4wgb: That is a beautiful guitar , congratulations and well done: Regards, Frank: Thank you Frank.I have Maple neck Strat as well. All the one i have have little differences between them.
|
|
|
Post by Tone on Jan 4, 2013 12:44:02 GMT
Interesting thread! So far as sound differences between maple and rosewood are concerned, somewhere on the Net is someone doing an A/B comparison of two guitars which are identical apart from one having a maple neck and the other a rosewood booard. There is a slight discernible difference in the sound but if you were to play either one in isolation you would have to have remarkably acute hearing to tell which was which. As regards "maintenance," I have two Strats with rosewood boards (one is a 2006 American Deluxe and the other is a 2000 CS 60 NOS) and all that's required is a light application of lemon oil which I do when changing strings so it's hardly onerous. The necks and boards on both guitars are absolutely fine. When I first played the Deluxe under "stage" lighting I immediately noticed the problem with the abalone dot markers mentioned by others - they were virtually impossible to see so, my eyes not bring trained to automatically look at the markers on the side of the neck, I was all over the place. To get round the problem I bought a set of inexpensive stick on white pearloid markers from here: shop.rothkoandfrost.co.uk/They were a little fiddly to apply and don't look as attractive as the abalone but they're much more practical and don't look like a DIY job. After over a year in use they haven't moved or peeled off so I can recommend them. And, Stuart, that certainly is a very attractive looking instrument. Cheers. Tony
|
|
|
Post by sheendigs on Jan 4, 2013 13:04:58 GMT
I used that company to make two decals. Their work is awesome. Sheednigs
|
|