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Post by kipper on Mar 7, 2013 17:14:33 GMT
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Post by mojolomjl on Mar 7, 2013 17:40:49 GMT
Hi Peter, who are you calling surly ;D ;D but seriously you are right about manufacturers always looking for ways of making us part with our hard earned cash.
Best regards,
Maurice.
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Post by kipper on Mar 7, 2013 17:45:02 GMT
hi Maurice spelling now corrected will do one hundred lines later ;D
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Post by Charlie Hall on Mar 7, 2013 17:49:51 GMT
Hi Peter,
Your link takes me to a hotmail sign in page but I'm not sure I can be bothered to check it out anyway.
They probably thought they could do with a new Clapton signature guitar to go with the most recent Clapton tweed amps.
I never saw Jeff Beck play the Jeff Beck signature Strat with 4 Lace Sensors (2 at the bridge position for a humbucker look). If an artist can't or won't use the model he endorses, there seems little point in some signature models, not that I would ever buy into that anyway.
Some models are not even accurate to the original artist's guitar, for example the Clarence White Tele. Wrong string bender (should be a long throw), standard body (Clarence's was a standard Esquire body but with an extra section added to the back), wrong pickups, no Scruggs tuners. Fender could have got it more right, they had access to the original guitar. I know of several that have made far more accurate copies.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Mar 7, 2013 18:03:41 GMT
Dya mean the 'Brownie' replica?
It's something to do with the fact that most of Clapton's 70s recording, including Layla were done on his favourite sunburst Strat. When he auctioned it for his Crossroads foundation, it fetched more than 'Blackie'. I guess, they've decided to replicate it just because they haven't done it before. It's not exactly a 'signature' model, more a replica/tribute of something he used to play - sort of like the difference between the HBM signature model and the replicas of '34346'.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by kipper on Mar 7, 2013 18:21:11 GMT
charlie thanks for pointing out about the link, a big mistake on my part. i have put it right now. thanks again. peter
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Post by kipper on Mar 7, 2013 18:27:56 GMT
charlie your right about the jeff beck strat with humbucker in bridge position i had one at one time in seafoam green i think the colour was called, i have never seen him use that one, also the white telecaster one in his name, he never owned the oridginal in the first place. and as we all know has used a strat for years. peter
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Post by oldynewby on Mar 7, 2013 18:37:18 GMT
It's just another scam isn't it? Much as I like Fender products and Clapton, and I do like him a lot, It's just another income stream for him. The Signature Series guitar. The "EC" amps, which are just slightly modified standard models and now "Brownie". He must be laughing up his sleeve. Put a "Clapton" tag on a Fender product and you can add another zero to the price.
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Post by allclaphands on Mar 8, 2013 8:20:58 GMT
Hi Peter
Just watched the sales video about Eric Clapton for
his new strat. It's amazing how he saw Buddy Holly
ect. playing a strat and how it influenced him to get
one and now he's doing a sales promo to influence
more people to buy his. Fender see it has good business,
in truth it his and good on them for it but i say this openly
buying a guitar like whoever, does not make you play like them
it is mainly for the sounds it makes as most people who have one
knows.These marketing men by attaching a famous name to a
guitar there bound to appeal to a certain section in the market place.If it was sold as just another strat what would the appeal be like? Who knows
Pete
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Mar 8, 2013 10:19:08 GMT
Barnham, I think it was... "There's a sucker born every minute." As long as there are people daft enough to pay silly money for "Signature" guitars, they'll keep churning 'em out.
Cheers
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jay
Member
Posts: 233
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Post by jay on Mar 8, 2013 11:45:30 GMT
Err......believe that Brownie did not sell for more than Blackie...but that the reverse is true....
jay
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Post by peterbower on Mar 8, 2013 14:56:28 GMT
I have to agree with Charlie, if the artist concerned cannot be bothered to play the Strat he/she has endorsed then why bother, its just a money making scam. Fender must be in Dire Straights, no pun intended to bring out signature guitars of people we, or me have never heard of, its probably quite relevant in the USA but not the rest of the world.
Just to drag up a post I made some time ago about Hank's signature Strats.
I was in Brussels, Belgium a few years ago and came upon a guitar shop in a side street not far from the Grand Plas. In the window was a Fiesta Red Strat with Rose wood neck and it was advertised as a HM signature model.
I dived in the shop to have a closer look and to find out what it was. The owner said that a deal had been struck with Fender and the Benelux countries to bring out a signature model with a Rose wood neck because Hank had played that particular model the longest and in their opinion deserved the signature label. I said I had not seen one in the UK, and the shop keeper said, that they didn't think the Brits would buy it because it was not a maple neck. I was 500 Euros and I believe made in Japan, but couldn't swear to it.
Peter
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Post by shadowkarl on Mar 8, 2013 15:37:54 GMT
IMHO just another of the well oiled marketing machinery efforts of Fender.
I always admire their ability to segment so many Strats models, without really inventing something new! All this reissue of the reissue thing, NOS 56, 59 etc.. old strats, Signatures, limited special runs, Custom Shops models etc...
It reminds me very much of the Porsche 911 Sportscar which you can have in all sorts of models, as Cabrio, Targa, 4X4, (but not as a reissue of the old 4 cylinder 912!) SC, Carrera.. but still it is basically a 911.
So I observe with amusement the Fender Strat Marketing strategies, always thinking about what was stated above: there is always someone born everyday...to whom they will be able to sell their "special" strats.
shadowkarl
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Post by bill on Mar 8, 2013 15:55:30 GMT
Hi,
I don't understand, are the negative responders here saying that Fender's description of this guitar is misleading or incorrect?
I like guitars, I welcome Fender and anyone else offering another guitar for sale. I'm not intending to buy this one but if I did and it gave me pleasure I think that would be great.
Bill
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Post by oldynewby on Mar 8, 2013 16:34:36 GMT
Hi, I don't understand, are the negative responders here saying that Fender's description of this guitar is misleading or incorrect? I like guitars, I welcome Fender and anyone else offering another guitar for sale. I'm not intending to buy this one but if I did and it gave me pleasure I think that would be great. Bill No Bill, we're not saying that Fender are doing anything wrong. It's just that they have a knack of repackaging the same product under a different guise and charging the earth for it. What people are being asked to shell out for is a replica of or tribute to a guitar that wasn't anything special in terms of specification, in fact it's already been done as a reissue, but with Clapton's name on it it'll sell for a small fortune. Nothing wrong in itself but it's a bit crass to expect people to pay a premium for a model of the same spec as a reissue which comes at a fraction of the price. There again, as long as there are those dopey enough to swallow it.... |
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Post by allclaphands on Mar 8, 2013 17:03:34 GMT
HI I don't see myself as a negative responder. Like many members I have a few Fender guitars which I purchased knowing full well what they are,without the sales marketing of "like this persons guitar or that persons guitar." Just as previous members have replied, charging a lot more than for a standard model. "as they say you pay your money you take your chances" Yes it is good to bring out a new guitar if that is what it is not one with a guitar heroes name attached to it to try to appeal to the more gullible of people I would like to say this is only my personal opinion and not a hard fact .I think the original posting did ask for opinions on the subject Pete  |
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Post by didier on Mar 8, 2013 20:32:45 GMT
Clapton Strats are very specific : their tremolo block is locked by a piece of wood which of course raises a lot manufacturing cost !  Didier |
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Post by oldynewby on Mar 8, 2013 20:57:14 GMT
Clapton Strats are very specific : their tremolo block is locked by a piece of wood which of course raises a lot manufacturing cost ! Didier Yes, you can certainly see where the money goes! Don't forget though, the "Brownie" Strat doesn't have the Mid Boost circuit or any other adornments. It's basically just a standard '57 with light relicing. The profit margins on these are going to be huge! I'm not bitter - but I am twisted!  |
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Post by kipper on Mar 8, 2013 21:04:14 GMT
i think they are milking the clapton thing a bit here, BUT it must cost a fair bit of money to research and copy the brownie in the exact manner that they do and then only build i think 100 guitars. i agree if clapton doesent use one thats a bit double edged for me, if its as good as he says then it would make sense for him to use it, thats were it goes a bit off for me. peter
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jay
Member
Posts: 233
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Post by jay on Mar 9, 2013 0:11:21 GMT
I don't think Fender and EC are trying to sell Limited Edition EC guitars to gullible guitar players although there will always be a few of those around...
Guitar Center sold I think 275 Blackies world wide at around $20000 -$24000 each. They sold them all in one day. Impressive.
The 100 Brownie replicas are selling for $15000 each. And it's not just Fender. He's working with Gibson....the Les Paul (George Harrison) Lucy is also selling for $15000 and there's 100 of those available. Then there is the 000 Martin range. The 00028 (150 @$6000), the 00045(55@$13000) and the 00045 (Brazilian 18@$50000).
A % of the sales will go to the Crossroads Center.
There are obviously plenty of buyers for these hot cakes. Good business for everyone.
The vast majority of people will be looking at the CS models and like me wondering what is the difference between these and the same guitars offered for $1600 or so less under the Artist Sig series. Reading some of the reviews of CS guitars out there, all of the ones I read say the same thing...somehow the guitar feels/plays better but no one seems able to say much else..except they don't regret paying the extra money. Then there are the MB guitars.........
As for buying the guitar played by ones hero....how many here have or are thinking of buying a CS 1956 NOS...just like the one Hank had back then...or whatever it was Cliff bought in 1959.
jay
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Mar 9, 2013 10:34:21 GMT
Err......believe that Brownie did not sell for more than Blackie...but that the reverse is true.... jay Then you believe wrong. In the original auction, 'Brownie' fetched more. 'Blackie' has been auctioned again recently, and this time it sold for a higher price. Cheers |
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Post by eltrasero on Mar 9, 2013 11:17:33 GMT
As far as I recall Brownie was sold first, around 1999, for about half a million US dollars. Blackie was sold in the mid 2000s for almost one million US dollars. It went in a major sale of Clapton guitars, amps etc. Guitar Center bought Blackie and the Cream 335 and they were on display in their main shop at one stage. Don't know about Blackie being sold again.
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jay
Member
Posts: 233
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Post by jay on Mar 9, 2013 12:45:13 GMT
Well......will continue to believe that Brownie was sold first on 24 June 1999 for $450,000 and that Blackie was sold on the same date in 2004 for $959,500.
Info courtesy of Wikepedia.
jay
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Post by shadowkarl on Mar 12, 2013 8:23:12 GMT
Hi, I don't understand, are the negative responders here saying that Fender's description of this guitar is misleading or incorrect? I like guitars, I welcome Fender and anyone else offering another guitar for sale. I'm not intending to buy this one but if I did and it gave me pleasure I think that would be great. Bill |
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Post by shadowkarl on Mar 12, 2013 8:30:10 GMT
Hi Bill,
that was not a bitter comment I made, Just my opinion on the marketing skills of Fender in still selling with all creative efforts what after all is just a strat not having invented and innovated anything considerably new in the last years.
If by the same time you are spending income and money to the crossroads foundation all the better. But it has nothing to do with the value of the instrument as such. I think allclaphands has hit the nail on the head with his comment.
Shadowkarl
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Post by bill on Mar 12, 2013 11:08:25 GMT
Hi folks,
On reflection it would have been better if I'd omitted the 'negative responders' part of my previous post as I am interested in all your views.
However, the word 'scam' implies fraud and had now been clarified above (thanks for that).
Also, the question was do you think this is one guitar too many, not what do you think of fellow guitar enthusiasts that would buy it. It does sadden me (whether it should or not) when there is criticism of others choices that don't cause anyone else any harm.
Just my own feelings,
Bill
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Post by kipper on Mar 12, 2013 12:00:44 GMT
hi bill i agree with you 100% when you say  "" the question was do you think this is one guitar too many, not what do you think of fellow guitar enthusiasts that would buy it. It does sadden me (whether it should or not) when there is criticism of others choices that don't cause anyone else any harm.""[glow=red,2,300][/glow][/b] when i first recieved the add from fender i thought this is taking advantage of peoples feelings of reguard for eric claptons playing ability, just the same as when big named stars are used to push any product. i have no doubt this is a great guitar well thought out and well made. and anybody should be free to buy it at there will. but clapton must be aware that his name and reputation is be used for the sole purpose of making loads money for fender. this same guitar without his endorsment woudnt sell for as much money as it does with his endorsment. and fender and all the other big firms who use stars to push there products know this other wise they woudnt pay them such large amounts of money to use there name. burns did it with there guitars that bear hank and bruces name. hank and bruce dont use these guitars but tell the world what great guitars they are why?? because they get paid vast amounts of money for it. how many guitars would they have sold without the use of hank and bruces name involved. but at the end of the day we have the right to buy or not and not be critersized whatever we do i agree with bill 100% on that. please anyone who replys lets not make it personal this is a great forum with great members so keep it friendly please.  peter |
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Post by eltrasero on Mar 12, 2013 12:01:04 GMT
To my mind the Brownie Stratocaster is one of the most iconic Strats of all time, after that Red one and say Rory Gallagher's battered axe. Thanks to the Layla album cover (remember them days?) it was drooled over at a time when Fender Strats were hard to come by.
Brownie was the guitar used on one of the most famous guitar tracks ever (Layla) and was Clapton's guitar of choice for the late 60s, early 70s. I was always puzzled that Fender chose Blackie to model before Brownie. Perhaps there were issues. Who knows.
A part of the purchase of this guitar (and the new EC amps) goes to the Crossroads charity, so what is not to like. If rich folk want to buy this guitar and help a charity at the same time that has to be good.
A few years back quite a lot of members on here shelled out £5000 on a Fender CS Strat that meant something to them without any qualms. All of the proceeds of that sale went to line people's pockets. There was no charity involved.
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Post by allclaphands on Mar 12, 2013 15:11:58 GMT
quote author=kipper please anyone who replies lets not make it personal this is a great forum with great members so keep it friendly please. peter I would like to echo this for all topics of debate Pete |
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Post by normg on Mar 14, 2013 17:20:27 GMT
Speaking of Clapton endorsments, anybody had any hands on with the Fender EC amps that go for lots of dollars.
Cheers Norm
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is this one to many. any opinions. peter
"" the question was do you think this is one guitar too many, not what do you think of fellow guitar enthusiasts that would buy it. It does sadden me (whether it should or not) when there is criticism of others choices that don't cause anyone else any harm.""[glow=red,2,300][/glow][/b]