The Fender Jaguar

[allclaphands]

Launched in 1962 The Fender Jaguar was designed as
the ultimate Fender six string guitar.Fifty years on they
made a 50th anniversary model.I read a number of well
know guitar players have used and recorded with it.
What I would like to know from any members who has
one or as used one or any opinions Good or Bad.I must
say I'm not thinking of getting one,just to see if what Fender
say about it match's up.It does look a very interesting guitar
but at what price dare I ask.

Pete

[somebodyelseuk]

The original spec model is a b***h to setup on 'modern gauge' strings (as is the Jazzmaster). The 50th Anni model has the trem unit moved about 3/4" closer to the bridge to get the angle and tension on the bridge.
A popular mod is to replace the bridge with a Mustang bridge, which sorts the rattles out and allows lighter strings...I have a Jazzmaster, meself, which has the original bridge with the supplied strings (9-42s) changed for 11-49s. I like it, but the bridge unit does have an annoying habit of lowering itself over time. Love the sound, love the Jag sound as well, but then sound is a subjective thing. The Jag is shorter scale, so a bit looser than the rest of the Fender range.
If I was buying a Jag, the Johnny Marr Signature is the one I'd go for, as he spent about five years modding and gigging prototypes until he'd ironed out all the bugs.
The trem is a doddle to setup and once the nut slots are sorted out, it keeps tune perfectly. Stories of the arms falling out are spread by people who don't push them in properly - mine stays where you put it and zero play.
Better or worse than a Strat or Tele? Neither, just different.

Cheers, Julian

[noelford]

I've always had a hankering for a Jazzmaster or a Jaguar, but only recently was able to try both out properly. To be honest, I thought they were adequate but, overall, disappointing. In the end I spent the pennies (several hundred thousand of them, from my Masterbuilt Strat sale) on an original, British-hand-made Rob Williams Set-Neck Deluxe, and I love it.

[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya Noel,
The trouble with Jags and Jazzmasters is that most shops don't set their guitars up to start with, but Jags and JMs are such a tricky balancing act to get the bridge right that finding one in a shop that plays well is almost impossible. That bridge is a shining example that Fender wasn't a genius - if the saddles are too low the strings catch the sides of the bridge, too high and the strings catch the intonation screws and the leeway is about 0.75mm.
I wouldn't gig mine, but it gets used plenty.
Cheers, Julian

[allclaphands]

Hi Julian
Reading the replies to this thread so far it would
seem the Jazzmaster is prefered.Although the Johnny
Marr signature Jaguar seems to stand out.Excuse me for
asking Julian have you done any recordings using your
Jazzmaster?it reads like a very good guitar in its own right.
Does it sound like one?

Regards
Pete

[abstamaria]

Quite a coincidence you should start this thread, Pete. I just acquired a new American Vintage Reissue "62" Jaguar. It really deosn't fit in the two genres I play - early Shadows and early Ventures music - because neither band used the model.

It's quite a period-looking, very American guitar, what with all the chrome. It reminds me of 50s and early 60s American cars. It has a shorter scale than the Jazzmaster, which I also have, different pickups, and that mute. I thought the short scale would throw me off, but I didn't notice it at all. I had it strung with 11-49 flatwounds, as a change to the 12-53s I have on the Jazzmaster,

Andy

[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya Pete.
I have recorded a couple of backing tracks with it and I'm in the middle of 'regurgitating' an old Smiths' tune...
With the effects that are involved with the Smiths' tune I could have used anything really, but the feel/vibe of the guitar put me in that mindset better than my other guitars. The backing tracks are a couple of Ventures tunes - links can be found in other threads. From a sound perspective, my JM is reminiscent of something with P90 pickups - single coil, but kind of 'bigger'. It has a nice growl when you get it 'near the edge'. All the tracks I've done so far have been using both pickups.
People talk about scale lengths a lot, but really the differences are only 1.5" over a length of two feet... when you get into it, the fret positions are only something like 3mm closer together at the first fret. With all the other physical differences, the Jag and Jazzmaster are really the only two guitars where you COULD be thrown, since their bodies are identical, and like Andy said, he owns both and doesn't have a problem. Aside from that, you'd only notice a difference in string tension in like for like string gauges.
If you have the time, I'd recommend dashing down to yer local 'Fender dealer' and trying out the Squier Vintage Modified Jags and JMs - the 'Reissue-style' ones, not the planks with humbuckers and tunomatic bridges. They seem to be highly rated - I hear they were Anderton's best selling guitars last year. How close they sound to 'the real thing', I don't know, but I wouldn't think they're a million miles away, and you would get an idea of how they feel - www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4hkel-Jx9I

Cheers, Julian

PS. Note, in the demo clip, their description of the switching is wrong.

[abstamaria]

Juilan's right. I think the lighter string tension might be more noticeable, which should make playing easier on the Jaguar. Neither the Jaguar nor the Jazzmaster will be a substitute for a Stratocaster for Shadows stuff. It would be redundant, IMO, if one already has a Jazzmaster and wants to play pre-Mosrite Ventures.

I bought a Jaguar simply to meet a 50-year-old need. I wanted one in 1962 and had to wait all these years to afford one. It arrived just a few days ago from the U.S. Our bass guitarist Anna was at my office when we opened the box and then the case to see this thing of beauty for the first time. It's quite striking. This is a 1962 specification model.

Andy

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[allclaphands]

Thanks for posting this Andy you lucky guy
It looks a beauty,I would be interested
to hear what it sounds like. Perhaps at
sometime you can give us a listen to it.

Pete

[harley]

For what its worth I have a Squier vintage modified Jag and its a superb guitar in every way. It feels and plays as good as it looks (and it looks amazing in my opinion). Like Julian said, its no better or worse than a strat or tele, just different. It is a versatile guitar too. before i bought it i tried a mexican fender and the squier vintage modified back to back. I defy anyone to tell them apart blindfold. Im convinced the name on the headstock effects some peoples hearing. The only difference was the price.




great guitar in my humble opinion

regards
Ian

[allclaphands]

Hi Ian
Lucky BU***R ;D ;D ;D
What a Beauty
Nothing wrong with SQUIER by Fender

Pete

[abstamaria]

That is lovely, Ian. Is that Olympic white? If so, that is my preferred color for a Jag. That was the color l saw them in in the early days.

[abstamaria]

The Vintage Modified series has been getting very good reviews.

[Tone]

This thread brought on one of my periodic attacks of GAS and it made me fancy an alternative to a Strat! I've always liked the look of the Jazzmaster so after reading this thread and looking at positive reviews and YouTube videos I decided to go for the Squier Vintage Modified because I didn't want to spend loads and I had enough in my PayPal account to cover the cost. They are available at many guitar shops for £264 including delivery (the same as the Squier Jaguar) but I won one on the well known auction site for £176 and the seller even delivered it to me. He'd also had it set up and fitted new strings. It's in three colour Sunburst and, after a bit of polishing, is absolutely immaculate - not a mark on it. When I plugged it in to my normal set up it sounded very Strattish but less bright. All sorts of sounds can be achieved from what is a very versatile pickup and tone control arrangement. The pickups are extremely powerful, so much so that with the amp and echo levels set for my Strats I had to turn the Squier's volume down to 6. Build quality is excellent and although I can find a few minor niggles e. g the tuners are very slightly out of line, the edge of the skunk stripe isn't quite ruler straight and the edges of the frets could be smoother, that really would be nit picking. The set up is very good with a nice low action.

I am mightily impressed and I wonder how on earth they can do it for the money. I have several Custom Shop Strats which I love but looking at and playing the Jazzmaster has brought to mind the often raised question about how the CS can justify such a whopping price premium for their products (a CS Jazzmaster costs about £2199) as you certainly couldn't say that the build quality of a CS instrument is about 8 times better than a Squier. I know there's more to it than just build quality but Fender are very clever with their marketing!

Cheers.

Tony

[abstamaria]

Yes, these threads can be quite dangerous. One opens them at one's peril.

But, congratulations, Tony. I'm trying to get my friend to buy a VM Strat, which sells here in the tropics too.

Best,

Andy

[somebodyelseuk]

LOL @ Andy...

The difference in cost is the wages, mostly. Also, the non- East Asia models use alder bodies, whereas the VMs are basswood (careful, it dents very easily) and those fret ends etc.
Really, if you can live with the pattern parts, cheaper wood and sort the niggles out yourself, they are a steal. It's when you replace stuff and pay people to sort the niggles that the price difference starts to disappears.
I've tried the Squier VM Jazzer and it is a spectacular guitar (though the one I tried , the volume and tone control were almost useless) for the money. I'm very tempted to get a VM Jag and mod the niggles out.
Tone, that action will get lower over the next few weeks, so you will quickly become an expert at setting the bridge up. If you need any help with it, when the time comes, shout up. It's a bit of a balancing act, but well worth the effort. It just takes patience, not a degree in engineering.
Cheers, Julian

[asimmd]

Watched some Demo's on YouTube and the sound out of this guitar is excellent.

I am struggling not to pick up the phone at the moment and I am wondering if
I did get one what would I use it for,it's not the guitar to play Shadows on,,,,,or is it?

Alan

[Tone]

Jul 31, 2013 11:43:47 GMT asimmd said:

Watched some Demo's on YouTube and the sound out of this guitar is excellent.

I am struggling not to pick up the phone at the moment and I am wondering if
I did get one what would I use it for,it's not the guitar to play Shadows on,,,,,or is it?

Alan

Hi Alan

As I said in my post, I played mine through my normal set up (EFTP and Vox AC15 Heritage) and it sounds very Stratish). I think it's fine for Shads although the purist in me recognises that it's not a Strat but, to be honest, it's much closer than I was expecting it to be. I intend taking it to a couple of forthcoming Shads clubs meetings and I'll see what it sounds like there and what others think of it.

Go for it - you know you want to!

Hi Julian. Thanks for your comments about the action and the bridge and I'll certainly take up your offer of help should it be needed. As you said in an earlier post, and as mentioned elsewhere, the bridge supplied can give problems - it seems that the strings can come out of the saddles, particularly if you play hard but they can be resolved by fitting a Mustang bridge as you say. My normal playing style isn't hard so I'll see how I get on before going down this route.

Cheers.

Tony

[asimmd]

I also read on youtube that the Mustang Bridge is 7.25 radius,but the Jaguar neck is 9.5

If you do decide to swop the bridge,make sure you check the radius before buying.

Alan

[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya All.
Firstly for Alan, don't forget, Bruce Welsh used a Jazzmaster on some early tunes - after '59 for the most obvious reason, but perhaps post '61 due to import restrictions(?) as well as a Gretsch and Strat.
Regarding the Mustang bridge swap, the radius points arevalid, however, I put this to someone a few weeks ago and they said they knew of a supplier who was doing 9.25" radius Mustang bridges. Besides that, there are a couple of other bridges that solve the problem, if you don't mind the slightly different look of theeir units.
Two things I did that cured the strings jumping, most important, was to go with 11-49s in place of the supplied 9-42s AND I also shimmed the neck back a touch, to get more string angle over the bridge - the old sliver of cigarette packet across the leading edge of the neck pocket. I never have trouble with the strings, just the bridge unscrewing its pivot screws over the coarse of time. The standard setup just doesn't give enough pressure on the bridge with 'modern' gauge strings and it ends up jumping, buzzing and rattling away and vibrating all it's screws loose. maybe I still need to go heavier with the strings?
Cheers, Julian

[Tone]

Thanks, Alan. Andertons are one of the dealers selling the Jazzmaster and Jaguar for £264. They are clearly aware of the drawbacks with the bridge because they mention them in their description of the guitars. They offer a Mustang bridge for £29.99 and say it drops straight into the bridge holes (the bridge is not screwed to the body). It (and the original) has individually adjustable saddles as per the Strat so you should be able to alter the saddles to follow the curve of the 9.5" fingerboard.

Cheers.

Tony

[somebodyelseuk]

Tone, the Mustang bridge saddles don't adjust, that's why Alan mentioned the radius difference. If you look at the VM Mustang, it actually uses a Jag/JM bridge because of the fingerboard radius as well, but I think the problems are eliminated by the anchoring of the strings being a lot closer to the bridge.
You DO need to check this out before ordering. The lack of screws in the Mustang saddles and the deeper grooves are why peeps swap to that bridge.
Cheers, Julian

[Tone]

Hi Julian

Yes, you're right. Having had a closer look at the Mustang bridge there are indeed no saddle screws. In that case and if the Mustang is for a 7.25" radius fingerboard I'm puzzled as to why Anderton's are recommending them. And yet they have reviews from customers giving the thumbs up including one from a guy who mentions the 7.25" radius but says it's not a problem. It also seems to me that if you can't adjust individual string height that's a step backwards, even though the height of the bridge as a complete unit can be raised or lowered (I think).

I'm confused!

Cheers.

Tony

[alanmckillop]

I purchased the Squier VM Jaguar and thought it played superbly, great build quality and finish and sounds very good. The bridge was an issue and even after stringing it with 11's, it still hasn't resolved the issues. I have purchased a Staytrem Jaguar bridge with the correct radius at 9.5" and at £65, I know it's expensive, but if it sorts the problem, then it's money well spent. The bridge was bought on the recommendation of a friend, so I'm sure it will do the business.

[harley]

Hi Andy

sorry for the delay in replying. yes it is olympic white and is almost identical to my (still not arrived) Squier vintage modified bass vi. They will make a lovely couple. JM do a drop in replacement bridge for jags AND bass vi in both radii

regards
Ian

[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya Tony,
The saddles on the Mustang bridge are radiused to suit...The reason (more likely a complete coincidence since it's Fender) for using that bridge is that the bridge saddle screws tend to rattle loose and the original Jag/JM bridge has so little useful adjustment that the screws are almost redundant. The intonation screws on the Jag/JM bridge foul the strings if the saddle is set too high and the raised sides of the bridge unit foul them if the saddles are too low - their is literally about 0.5mm of usable adjustment. You get the radius right and then adjust the whole unit on the pivot points to get the action... and then you readjust it all again. Using the Mustang bridge eliminates the time consuming part of the equation - it does take ages.
As long as the saddle radius matches the fingerboard there is no need for individual height adjustment at the saddles.
The JM/Jag bridge is essentially a very poorly designed copy of a tunomatic bridge.

Cheers, Julian

[Tone]

Thanks, Julian, for explaining the shortcomings of the original bridge. I understand the potential problems now.

I have to say that the bridge on mine seems fine so far and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it stays that way. The only other comment I'd make is that the trem action isn't as "positive" as on a Strat but I think that's due to the design and not a fault.

Cheers.

Tony

[somebodyelseuk]

Yer welcome.
The trem... I actually love the feel, but you're right, it's not as positive as a Strat. I think it's just the length of the arm that makes it a little 'sloppy/flexy'. A lot of peeps have trouble with the arm falling out, but you'll find it will, with a bit of force, push all the way in to the bend and then it grips it just fine.
The bridge is really the 'Achilles heel'. It's a contradiction in some ways - great idea badly executed. It's important that it doesn't touch the sides of the channels it drops into as it is designed to rock with the action of the trem.
I love the guitar, but it is one of those that can drive you up the wall, until you figure out the quirks. Everything else about 'em is a joy.
Cheers, Julian

[abstamaria]

The Jaguar is still at my office, where it was delivered. I took a mobile phone photo of the "Fender Mute" system, which never found favor as we know. But it is an interesting, historic device.

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[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya,
Just to add, it occurred to me that the legs of the bridge unit are threaded tubes with tiny screws that have a point on the end that it pivots on, adjusted with the same (I think) allen key as the saddles.
Sorry, if that wasn't clear, I just assumed...
Cheers, Julian.