USA 52 Re-issue Tele Capacitor question

[philc]

My new 52 re-issue Tele is, as it said on the box, the closest copy to date, it plays and sound great.

The guitar comes with modern wiring setup ie a .05uf cap between the volume and tone pots, this gives:-

#B- Bridge pickup only.

#M- Bridge and Neck pickup together.

#N- Neck pickup only.

Master volume works in all positions.

Changing the cap to the bottom connector of the switch and volume pot earth (Vintage) gives:-

#B- Bridge pickup with blend to allow neck pickup to be added.

#M- Neck pickup only (Blend does nothing)

#N- Neck pickup with .05 cap (very warm sound, blend does nothing)

Master volume works in all positions.

I haven't tried this yet but was wondering if anyone has?

Phil.

PS. This on order straight from Gibson at Memphis, should be a good one

www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/ES/Gibson-Memphis/1959-ES-335.aspx

[grip]

Hi Phil,

PS. This on order straight from Gibson at Memphis, should be a good one

It looks a dead ringer for my Epiphone Dot ;D ;D ;D I'm sure it will sound as good as it looks - which finish did you choose?

Kind regards,


Chris

[philc]

Chris, I chose the vintage burst, my mate has just bought one, he brought it over a couple of days ago, it's excellent

Phil

[asimmd]

Hi Phil

I bought the ES-339,which is the little brother to the 335.

Same Vintage Sunburst as you have ordered.

Being a Fender man all my life i can say i am really pleased with the Gibson,it plays and sounds fantastic.

I also have the Epiphone ES-339,but it sounds nothing like the Gibson.

I know you will love it,bet you can't wait.

Alan

[philc]

I nearly bought one from a well known shop they had their own pictures (so they said) of a hand picked one, the same picture was on another well know stores web site. I questioned them about it, they said that the second store had used their pictures, this morning I looked at the very same picture on the Gibson site so that say's something about trusting people.

Phil

[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya Phil.
Re: The vintage wiring, I haven't tried it, but other than the blending option, in theory, you're not gaining anything. The neck alone settings can be gained on the 'modern wiring' and you'd lose the tone control.

As for the 335. Lovely guitar... it'll have the vintage wiring layout, when on both pickups, back off one of the volumes a couple of notches - doesn't matter which - the tone will really fatten up and the volume will increase slightly.
Regarding trusting people, there's a lot to be said for going into a real shop.
NB: to other Gibson owners, this doesn't work on post 70 wiring layout, ie. if you're on both pickups, you turn one volume all the way down and the guitar goes silent, you have the modern wiring.

Cheers, Julian

[philc]

Thanks Julian, I will no doubt try the vintage volume wiring one day, just to see.

As for the 335, I have tried one as I said in my second post, and backed off the volumes etc, it sounds great, even better when the amps wound up ;D

Phil

[philc]

I've just had another look at the vintage wiring diagram and it's not just the case of moving the cap.

Phil

[erikMAMS]

Nov 17, 2013 14:03:58 GMT philc said:

I've just had another look at the vintage wiring diagram and it's not just the case of moving the cap.

Phil - I was wondering/confuse about that when you mentioned it first time (without looking at the schem). Which diagrams are you looking at exactly?

Erik

[philc]

This one Erik.

[erikMAMS]

Phil - I've never had a Tele, but I remember reading about the vintage wiring and was puzzled by the feature of having the N-pu with the full .05mf loading it - giving a very warm sound. A jazzy/warm sound isn't exactly what I assocoiate with a Tele.

As Julian mentioned - you can try the warm (I'd call it DULL) sound from the N with your modern wiring - N only and tone control fully off.

The blend function seems much more usefull IMO, but I would find or work out another wiring scheme than the vintage in order not to waste a position on the dark neck alone setting.

Erik

[philc]

Thanks Erik,

I'm happy with the way it sounds and would only change it just for curiosity.

The only thing I notice, it's not a problem, is the cut in volume when the two pickups are selected, in this position it has a great nasal sound.

Phil

[somebodyelseuk]

Hiya Phil.
By what you describe there it's got the two pickups wired out of phase - or incorrectly. It's not usual for Teles to be wired like that. If you're happy with it, leave it alone, but the usual in between on a Tele is 'very country'... very punchy.
I know that Fender originally offered the 52 Reissue wired as it was in 52 with the kit to wire it as per became standard in the 60s. Makes me wonder if the distributor is rewiring them when they arrive and they got this one wrong?
If it helps, I can post a couple of sound files of one in and out of phase later, just to be sure?
Cheers, Julian

[philc]

Julian, I will check out the wiring just to see.

Phil

[somebodyelseuk]

Phil, if you see this before you pull your guitar apart...

www.4shared.com/mp3/bmSvejGt/Pickup_phases.html?

Three samples - 1. Baja Tele IN phase 2. Baja Tele OUT phase 3. US Std...

I was surprised that the out of phase was actually louder than IN/Std, but it is a thinner sound... Not as obvious as if it was a Strat, but a definite difference.

By the way, these are direct into interface, no amps, no alterations between samples, no 'post' treatments - the only variable is me.

Cheers, Julian

[philc]

Julian, from memory, it's a toss-up between 2 & 3, probably 3.

Thanks.

Phil

[somebodyelseuk]

Hmm?
2 is with pickups out of phase and 3 is on a US Std (standard in phase wiring). Essentially, aside from the subtleties of material differences, 1 & 3 are the same...

What I was saying about Fender's Reissue wiring, it used to be the case that they supplied them wired as in 52, the new ones are the fifth or sixth incarnation of the 52 Reissue and I couldn't say for certain how they leave the factory - website says modern wiring.
I think, all's well and I'm guilty of '2+2=5'... nasally is not usually a term used to describe a Tele.
Cheers, Julian

[philc]

Here's a demo, B - M - N, the same setup for all and with no volume editing.

app.box.com/s/azdcbuzl1yexj44f6u4r

Phil

[somebodyelseuk]

Huh?
It DOES sound like it might be wired out of phase - sounds a bit 'hollow'. Bridge and neck on their own sound great, but the middle seems... well, very nasally.
Tricky to give advice here... IF you're 100% on the feel, then I'd open it up and check it out or take it into a local shop that sells Fenders and compare it with other Teles & get their opinion - I certainly wouldn't send it back in case they replace it with one that doesn't feel as good. Only trouble is, if you take a soldering iron to it (which is what I would do) you lose the warranty.
Wonder if the pickups are opposite polarity? My Dad rewired his old Strat recently - he replaced it's pickups in the 80s - followed the wiring diagrams and when it was done, he had a very weedy nasally sound on one of the in-betweens. Advising him over the phone, I told him to take one of the pickups causing 'the problem' out (without unsoldering and take the top towards the bottom of the other. If they repel, they're opposite poles,causing the pickups to be out of phase with each other. In his case it was a Di Marzio and a Seymour Duncan, they repelled, he reversed the wiring on the odd one and the problem was fixed - it's similar to how the Peter Green Les Paul got it's sound.
If you've got an old magnetic compass handy, you can use that, but just holding it against the top of the pickups - it should point in the same direction in both cases...
I know the Johnny Marr Jag pickups are opposite poled, but they will also be reversed wired, as well.

Anyhoo, as always, if you're happy with it leave it alone, but don't fret - 'scuse the pun - it's easy to fix.
Cheers, Julian

[philc]

When I get chance i'll check the wiring etc, it does sound good though when wound up!

Phil

[philc]

Just checked, it's got "Modern" wiring, all correct and no magnet mis-match, in other words, not phased.

Phil

[philc]

Just tried a 51 Thinline and the pickups sound the same as mine.

Phil