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Post by meladdison on May 12, 2014 21:09:12 GMT
Hi all,
It seems to me that more and more members are playing and recording their tracks without the use of an amplifier.
Apparently all we have to do now is download a amp- App onto an "Apple I Pod" and hey presto, no amp needed, in fact,
I understand we can take our pick from a number of amp sounds or amp manufacturers, just download the App for about £9.00.
Do members think this is the way forward, or perhaps the sound from the PA speakers (rather than the amp) is not as good, using the App?
Personally, I can't see how the app with all it's benefits can be as good as the amp as the amp has so many other adjustments.
From my point of view though, why lug a huge Amplifier around if you don't have to or if individuals are short of space at home, the exit of the Amp could be a good thing?
Are we seeing the beginning of the end of the Amp as we know it?
Comments please? [/p]
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 21:24:53 GMT
i play live so have to have the amps , you can't get your music feedback playing through an app and headphones  |
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Post by istvan on May 13, 2014 3:57:25 GMT
I think this music need amps.I play only amps. |
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Post by noelford on May 13, 2014 6:58:32 GMT
I use the JamUp Pro App, on my iPad, amplified with a Bose L1 Compact, and it is better than any normal guitar amp I have ever owned. I do an occasional gig at a music (mainly guitar) shop, and I get loads of compliments on the sound this set-up achieves. And it is absolutely fine for Shad's stuff!
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 7:56:33 GMT
I use the JamUp Pro App, on my iPad, amplified with a Bose L1 Compact, and it is better than any normal guitar amp I have ever owned. I do an occasional gig at a music (mainly guitar) shop, and I get loads of compliments on the sound this set-up achieves. And it is absolutely fine for Shad's stuff! Thanks Noel - really interesting. Regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 7:58:24 GMT
i play live so have to have the amps , you can't get your music feedback playing through an app and headphones Thanks Dave regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 7:59:36 GMT
I think this music need amps.I play only amps. Hello Istvan, Yes, and it sounds very good too. Regards, Mel |
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Post by somebodyelseuk on May 13, 2014 9:29:57 GMT
There are quite a few big names are using a laptop and amp sim software straight to a PA now, and they keep an amp on stage to create the illusion. You think modelling amps are good. The topend software on a good laptop blows them away.
There are a lot more albums than you'd think made now where the musicians are being recorded direct and fed through amp sims, some aren't even aware that it's being done to them.
Of course, the software being used isn't the free download stuff, they're the ones that cost a few hundred quid.
Personally, I prefer an amp, but I'm not against good software, when an amp isn't practical.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by shadfan4 on May 13, 2014 10:23:14 GMT
Been using Pod 2 from when it first came out, was so impressed with it I bought the Rackmount Pod Xt Pro which is the mainstay of 99% of all my recordings/posts. I do have a superb Vox AC15 HW TV1 Heritage, but even being lucky to live in a large detached house the noise is too much unless my house is empty.
With the facility to output the Pod to power amp or PA it is so versatile that we know they are often used on stage as well as in the studio.
I also use software sims Amplitube/Guitar Rig but they are usually for me learning a piece on my laptop.
Mike.
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Post by shadowkarl on May 13, 2014 11:27:05 GMT
I still prefer very good vox or the KCP amp for shadows music and certainly for gigs.
As I am fiddling around with computers and software all day long professionally, I am keen on all the valve amp aspects like the glowing tubes and the smell of a driven amp (Software does not do all this)
and after all the sound.
regards
Shadowkarl
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Post by istvan on May 13, 2014 12:10:44 GMT
I saw some great bands,and no amps.Maybe in some years we have a software-and you dont need to buy a guitar.Only enter-and you have a 3D guitar ,and can play on it.I need the illusion ,and I will have the dream: I m a shadow.I like the amps,the sound,and a little hum.
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Post by shadfan4 on May 13, 2014 14:10:48 GMT
The real test will always be, can you tell from a post whether it is simulated or real? Not many will be able I bet.
Mike.
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Post by Roger... on May 13, 2014 17:17:57 GMT
Hi Mel,
My line-up for playing and recording at home is:-
Guitar->MagicStomp->LINE6 Pod HD (set to AC15)->iPad Mini->Powered speaker monitor
My iPod Mini has the MultiTrack DAW recording APP loaded on it and also my BT's.
In MultiTrack DAW I load one track with a BT and record myself to another (and another and another if required). The recorded sound also comes out of the powered speaker monitor. The recorded tracks can then be mixed/processed and exported to email, soundcloud etc.
If I choose not to record, then I just arm the track and the sound comes out of the speaker monitor as normal.
I find that using this method instead of a mic'd amplifier gets around the accidentally inputted noise problem like dogs barking or doors slamming. Also helps with neighbour relations as headphones can be used instead of a speaker monitor.
I have used this system for my recordings for over a year and a half now and it works perfectly for me. I dare say that there are many other iPad APP's that will do very similar things.
No way back for me.
Kind regards
Roger
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 17:29:28 GMT
i play live so have to have the amps , you can't get your music feedback playing through an app and headphones Thanks Dave, regards Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 17:33:27 GMT
There are quite a few big names are using a laptop and amp sim software straight to a PA now, and they keep an amp on stage to create the illusion. You think modelling amps are good. The topend software on a good laptop blows them away. There are a lot more albums than you'd think made now where the musicians are being recorded direct and fed through amp sims, some aren't even aware that it's being done to them. Of course, the software being used isn't the free download stuff, they're the ones that cost a few hundred quid. Personally, I prefer an amp, but I'm not against good software, when an amp isn't practical. Cheers, Julian Thanks for that Julian, I know your right, So much of the music I can't tell if it is played through an amp or not. regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 17:43:44 GMT
Been using Pod 2 from when it first came out, was so impressed with it I bought the Rackmount Pod Xt Pro which is the mainstay of 99% of all my recordings/posts. I do have a superb Vox AC15 HW TV1 Heritage, but even being lucky to live in a large detached house the noise is too much unless my house is empty. With the facility to output the Pod to power amp or PA it is so versatile that we know they are often used on stage as well as in the studio. I also use software sims Amplitube/Guitar Rig but they are usually for me learning a piece on my laptop. Mike. Hello Mike, this is where things get a little confusing for me, I have only recently realised that we don't necessarily need an amp any more, what I am finding difficult to understand is how the soft where can ape so closely these quality amplifiers so closely.? Thanks for your thoughts, regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 17:50:15 GMT
Hi Mel, My line-up for playing and recording at home is:- Guitar->MagicStomp->LINE6 Pod HD (set to AC15)->iPad Mini->Powered speaker monitor My iPod Mini has the MultiTrack DAW recording APP loaded on it and also my BT's. In MultiTrack DAW I load one track with a BT and record myself to another (and another and another if required). The recorded sound also comes out of the powered speaker monitor. The recorded tracks can then be mixed/processed and exported to email, soundcloud etc. If I choose not to record, then I just arm the track and the sound comes out of the speaker monitor as normal. I find that using this method instead of a mic'd amplifier gets around the accidentally inputted noise problem like dogs barking or doors slamming. Also helps with neighbour relations as headphones can be used instead of a speaker monitor. I have used this system for my recordings for over a year and a half now and it works perfectly for me. I dare say that there are many other iPad APP's that will do very similar things. No way back for me. Kind regards Roger Hi Roger, many thanks for this, just goes to show how far behind the times I am, perhaps you and I can have another word about this on Sunday at Tiddington? thanks for your thoughts, regards Mel. |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 17:52:54 GMT
I still prefer very good vox or the KCP amp for shadows music and certainly for gigs. As I am fiddling around with computers and software all day long professionally, I am keen on all the valve amp aspects like the glowing tubes and the smell of a driven amp (Software does not do all this) and after all the sound. regards Shadowkarl Hi Karl, yes, I can understand your point of view. Regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 18:02:13 GMT
The real test will always be, can you tell from a post whether it is simulated or real? Not many will be able I bet. Mike. Your right on the button Mike, I can't tell. Regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 18:07:30 GMT
I saw some great bands,and no amps.Maybe in some years we have a software-and you dont need to buy a guitar.Only enter-and you have a 3D guitar ,and can play on it.I need the illusion ,and I will have the dream: I m a shadow.I like the amps,the sound,and a little hum. Yes Istvan, and you make them sound so very good. Kind regards, Mel |
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Post by Rick on May 13, 2014 18:15:43 GMT
There is something about a valve amp as many of us have experienced over the decades.
There is something about the smell of a working valve amp & the heat shimmer coming through the top grills,not to mention finding the sweet spot on the amp & really going to town.The valve amp is almost alive.
One digital effect that i use is as cold when the gig is finished as when i switched it on two or three hours earlier.It works very well but,it seems so sterile.
The problem that i am finding with valve gear these days,is lifting & placing it all.twenty years ago lifting weight like that was no problem !
Having said all of that,at home between gigs,i plug Guitars,mikes,& backing tracks into a mixer & use the little 50X50 Prosound power amp & use the left side for Guitars & the right side for mikes & backing tracks with the left & the right side going to two different speaker cabs.Definately no drooling name dropping there i know but,it works surprisingly well & gives the valves a rest.
Best wishes, Rick.
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Post by meladdison on May 13, 2014 18:26:39 GMT
There is something about a valve amp as many of us have experienced over the decades. There is something about the smell of a working valve amp & the heat shimmer coming through the top grills,not to mention finding the sweet spot on the amp & really going to town.The valve amp is almost alive. One digital effect that i use is as cold when the gig is finished as when i switched it on two or three hours earlier.It works very well but,it seems so sterile. The problem that i am finding with valve gear these days,is lifting & placing it all.twenty years ago lifting weight like that was no problem ! Having said all of that,at home between gigs,i plug Guitars,mikes,& backing tracks into a mixer & use the little 50X50 Prosound power amp & use the left side for Guitars & the right side for mikes & backing tracks with the left & the right side going to two different speaker cabs.Definately no drooling name dropping there i know but,it works surprisingly well & gives the valves a rest. Best wishes, Rick. Hi Rick, Isn't this interesting, we all do things differently and yet we are all aiming for the same end product, I certainly know what you mean regards the all valve amp as that is exactly what I have and love it. However, I feel I am being left behind and need to update if you like by at least knowing what is going on. I agree with you over the weight of the amp too. Thanks for your thoughts Rick, regards, mel |
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Post by shadowkarl on May 14, 2014 8:30:38 GMT
Hi Rick
nearly poetry in your comments about valve amps.Could not have nailed it down better. Fully agree to that and exactly feel the same.
... and when it comes to "transporting/lifting" these Monsters, you still could use a trolley for most of the occasions, and a help if needed for the stairs..(or the piggy back versions)
regards
shadowkarl
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Post by somebodyelseuk on May 14, 2014 8:33:05 GMT
The thing with a valve amp that none of the amp modellers - that is things like the Mustangs, Valvetronx, Line 6 etc etc - have done yet is simulate how a valve amp reacts to different dynamics. It's probably less obvious with clean Shadows music, but when you really drive a valve amp, you get a natural compression etc etc... At the momemnt, the modellers just simulate how the amp sounds - you put a tubescreamer in front of a Valvetronix set up like an AC30 and I promise you, what comes out of the speaker will be a million miles away from what you'd get from a real AC30.
The best amp sim software is now modelling how the components interact inside a valve amp, but it's very processor heavy - it'll be five-ten years before an amp/multi FX box has the power to use this kind of software - but even then, when it comes to anything where your analogue signal is converted to a digital signal before being processed, the tubescreamer scenario is impossible to replicate starting outside of the box.
Personally, ignoring the dynamics part, I prefer the amp for the same reason I prefer to play in a band - I don't like playing on an empty stage. I want a drummer behind me, a bassist, singer and another guitarist to 'play around with' - it's part of the entertainment. For me, visual is as important, moreso even than the sound... and the amp is anothe visual.
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Post by istvan on May 14, 2014 8:52:24 GMT
Totally agree. I saw Toto,and Foreigner on the stage.No amps,it was empty.Then ZZ Top has only some I dont know what-like metall scenery,and behind a movie.For me is important the amp,but everybody can do what he likes!I have a Line 6 modeling guitar,but I never play.It is for me stranger.It is for me a feeling play on my valve amps!
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Post by philc on May 14, 2014 9:06:38 GMT
It's very difficult if not impossible to tell an amp sim from a real amp, in most cases that is, but, if an A/B is made of the both then that's a different ballgame, but still relies on the settings being right.
Phil
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Post by George Lewis on May 14, 2014 9:07:53 GMT
Hi Mel,
These Jaguar XJ6 Classic, versus Toyota/Honda/Hyundai Coupe discussions are always so interesting.
Whoops, had another look and sorry, wrong forum. This one is Valve Amps versus Simulators.
Another interesting forum is the disposable safety razor versus cut-throat razor with leather strop and ivory handle shaving brush.
We baby boomers are unique in living through the transition from items that have the unmistakeable organic feel of "made by living humans" to reproductions designed and produced via perfect "simulations".
Hang in there all those who champion real valve amps complete with authentic "valve" sound, smell and fitness benefits.
No question they can (though not guaranteed) give the real feel.
Personally I have long since capitulated to "progress" and now always use amp simulation through a decent PA .. for live work a Bose L1.
Cheers
George
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Post by meladdison on May 14, 2014 10:03:48 GMT
Hi Mel, These Jaguar XJ6 Classic, versus Toyota/Honda/Hyundai Coupe discussions are always so interesting. Whoops, had another look and sorry, wrong forum. This one is Valve Amps versus Simulators. Another interesting forum is the disposable safety razor versus cut-throat razor with leather strop and ivory handle shaving brush. We baby boomers are unique in living through the transition from items that have the unmistakeable organic feel of "made by living humans" to reproductions designed and produced via perfect "simulations". Hang in there all those who champion real valve amps complete with authentic "valve" sound, smell and fitness benefits. No question they can (though not guaranteed) give the real feel. Personally I have long since capitulated to "progress" and now always use amp simulation through a decent PA .. for live work a Bose L1. Cheers George How very interesting George, you are right, all these changes and we hardly recognise them happening, but instead just go with the flow. I was in a large guitar shop yesterday, it was packed with almost ever make of amplifier available some costing thousands, surely these large stores must feel the loss of business as people change to new forms of amplification? Perhaps it will soon be time to get a deal on a top notch amp? Thanks for your thoughts George. Kind regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 14, 2014 11:18:10 GMT
There are quite a few big names are using a laptop and amp sim software straight to a PA now, and they keep an amp on stage to create the illusion. You think modelling amps are good. The topend software on a good laptop blows them away.m finding this a really interesting subject so a There are a lot more albums than you'd think made now where the musicians are being recorded direct and fed through amp sims, some aren't even aware that it's being done to them. Of course, the software being used isn't the free download stuff, they're the ones that cost a few hundred quid. Personally, I prefer an amp, but I'm not against good software, when an amp isn't practical. cheers, Julian Hi Julian, thanks for your thoughts, when you talk about Top End software are you referring to the likes of Line 6 effects pedals or perhaps Charlies new Hall and Collins Unit or have I got this wrong? I find this so interesting as I know so little about it - thanks. Regards, Mel |
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Post by meladdison on May 14, 2014 11:23:33 GMT
The thing with a valve amp that none of the amp modellers - that is things like the Mustangs, Valvetronx, Line 6 etc etc - have done yet is simulate how a valve amp reacts to different dynamics. It's probably less obvious with clean Shadows music, but when you really drive a valve amp, you get a natural compression etc etc... At the momemnt, the modellers just simulate how the amp sounds - you put a tubescreamer in front of a Valvetronix set up like an AC30 and I promise you, what comes out of the speaker will be a million miles away from what you'd get from a real AC30. The best amp sim software is now modelling how the components interact inside a valve amp, but it's very processor heavy - it'll be five-ten years before an amp/multi FX box has the power to use this kind of software - but even then, when it comes to anything where your analogue signal is converted to a digital signal before being processed, the tubescreamer scenario is impossible to replicate starting outside of the box. Personally, ignoring the dynamics part, I prefer the amp for the same reason I prefer to play in a band - I don't like playing on an empty stage. I want a drummer behind me, a bassist, singer and another guitarist to 'play around with' - it's part of the entertainment. For me, visual is as important, moreso even than the sound... and the amp is anothe visual. Hi Julian, Yes, I think most people would agree with all you have said particularly the visual aspect - thanks. Regards, Mel |
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