|
|
Post by George Lewis on Apr 9, 2015 12:45:58 GMT
Came across by accident, this interesting couple of videos testing and comparing different types of SAME VALUE caps and whether there is any significant difference in sound.
The results of his survey are here.
He also has a series of 6 videos on other topics such as volume control values, treble bleed, tone controls etc.
Regards
George
|
|
jay
Member
Posts: 233
|
Post by jay on Apr 9, 2015 17:09:00 GMT
....if there was any difference in the studio, by the time the sound came via YT and my laptop it had totally disappeared!
|
|
|
|
Post by philc on Apr 9, 2015 18:58:39 GMT
I thought the difference in tone (when it could be heard) was so minute that it would be a total waist of time stripping a guitar down change one!
Phil
|
|
|
|
Post by George Lewis on Apr 9, 2015 21:50:37 GMT
I also couldn't hear any difference except for the last one. Interesting that he only included "qualified" survey answers, ie those who correctly identified the final test where there was a significant difference which even I could hear. Of the roughly 70% who got the final test correct, more than half in each test could not detect any difference and the "odd man out" capacitor was hardly ever nominated correctly. None of this surprises me but many are convinced changing things like caps, wiring, wood, paint etc makes a tonal difference and then put the signal through distortion, sustain EQ etc effects pedals and amps.  George |
|
|
|
Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 9, 2015 22:04:58 GMT
Much would depend on whether the signal is passing through the cap or whether the cap is shorting some of the signal to earth. These two conditions are pretty much the opposite of each other. In typical guitar tone circuits, the cap is shorting some of the signal to earth. Actually it is even a bit more complicated that that when the cap reacts with the resonant frequency of the pickup(s) but it isn't really necessary to consider it for the purpose of making this point.
Consider a cap that has a certain value of ESR. In a guitar tone circuit with the tone pot to zero, the ESR would stop some of the highs being lost to earth and soften the resonant peak a little too. Some caps have more inductance than others too. Such characteristics could have more effect than the type of capacitor in these tone circuits, although it can also be argued that the type of capacitor is precisely what makes the differences mentioned. I doubt I'll be getting involved in any argument though!
Regards,
Charlie
|
|
|
|
Post by garyallen on Apr 9, 2015 22:05:12 GMT
I remember finding this subject interesting a few years back,after trying different caps/pots/wiring I thought there was little to be gained on a strat with single coils,infact I thought the middle and neck sounded better without a cap. still..it was interesting. gary
|
|
|
|
Post by scanners on Apr 10, 2015 1:33:24 GMT
I had the 2 bright ones changed in my AC30 it was way too bright especially on the normal channel for Shadows tones, I read thats how they originally were but somewhere along the line they made them brighter?
Matthew
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 5:46:32 GMT
The biggest thing that affects tone is the state of your ears....especially as you get older and how many gigs you've done onstage with the volume wound up and driven home with the warm hiss in your ears and that amazingly silent car....Paul....
|
|
|
|
Post by philc on Apr 10, 2015 7:16:48 GMT
I doubt I'll be getting involved in any argument though! Regards, Charlie Good decision...not worth the trouble Phil |
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Apr 10, 2015 8:10:21 GMT
What are the values? Did he take the values stamped on them as gospel? What are the tolerances? Did he remove the caps that were inside the guitar - will make a dramatic difference to the "test"? What are the amp settings? Does the microphone have enough sensitivity to cover the range the caps affect? What post production tweeking did he do? Is what you are seeing the same as what you are hearing or is it overdubbed?...
You can prove/disprove anything with youtube when it comes to sound.
Cheers, Julian
|
|
|
|
Post by George Lewis on Apr 10, 2015 9:17:01 GMT
Hi Julian, I think you would find it interesting to watch the videos as he has put together a reasonably well thought out test ... in fact 5 different scenarios, and coupled it with a survey. As far as I can see, his business doesn't sell "special" capacitors so he appears to have no particular vested interest in the outcome. It's not like he's selling pickups by using a concrete block guitar body.  The aim was to compare the sound using different types of caps with the same measured value (except in two deliberate cases), at different settings of the tone control ... with the same setup. So, factors such as amp, mic, guitar innards, player etc are more or less constant and not significant. Seems to be info for those who buy an expensive "vintage", "Orange Drop", Bumblebee, or Russian Military capacitor hoping it will enhance their sound. cheers George |
|
|
|
Post by somebodyelseuk on Apr 12, 2015 8:08:05 GMT
Apologies George.
I didn't read what you wrote initially, properly.
You know me by now. I don't buy into all the cr@p where people believe the slightest little detail makes a big difference. The thing I find interesting is that guitarists are gullible (or arrogant, maybe) enough to believe that they'll be able to hear a difference over a youtube clip. IF there is a difference between how they sound, you'd be hard pressed to hear it if you were in the room with them, so you have no chance of hearing any difference from a mediocre quality sound file.
All of these little tweeks and mods that make subtle differences at best, can be easily achieved by just not bothering and setting up an EQ module on their multi effects units... and 99% of them are rendered redundant as soon as the signal passes through the processing that the vast majority do to their signal, anyway - fitting CS54 pickups, hacking the top and bottom end off and then trying to boost the midrange. You're removing the very thing that gives that pickup it's characteristics and trying to boost the area where it is weak. That's like giving Marilyn Monroe surgery to make her look like Whoopi Goldberg.
To their credit - the guys who do these type of youtube experiments - at least they're not hiding behind the old '50 years experience' argument. Doing the same thing for 50 years is not 50 years experience. It's 5 minutes experience repeated over and over for 50 years. Experience is trying different things and drawing unbiased conclusions on what works and what doesn't.
A friend of mine says, the problem with guitarists and guitar builders is that most of them aren't scientists or engineers. What I've noticed is that even those that are seem to lose the ability to use their brains when guitars become involved.
Cheers, Julian
|
|
|
|
Post by garyallen on Apr 12, 2015 10:16:18 GMT
Another funny one I remember is a guy in the guitar shop trying to sell me valves for an amp using the pitch that russian military jets use them. I replied " does that mean the pilot has a great sound " ?? gary
|
|
