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Post by localhero on May 20, 2015 19:44:10 GMT
I recorded this today with the aim of getting the guitar to sound as close to the record as I could using this tiny little amp. Charlie helped enormously with the EQ and I used some reverb and the 29.5ms delay to double track the lead guitar, as it appears was done on Hank's original. No Vox will give you this sound without a lot of EQ help. There was something magical about Abbey Road's parametric EQ box. Of course the Hall & Collins provides the main echo and adds that Meazzi feel. FBI soundcloud.com/robbo47/f-b-i-remix |
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Post by grip on May 20, 2015 20:42:54 GMT
Hi Dave,
Well played. The sound has the right characteristics, but to me sounds a little over processed...however, I don't think your going to get it any closer with your "toy" amp.
Kind regards,
Chris
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Post by localhero on May 20, 2015 21:30:10 GMT
It don't think it's over processed any more than the original, it's a fact that FBI has a sound that people consistently fail to produce, so Charlie and myself investigated why and he came up with answers which so far are in the right direction. We hope to find the 'tone' over the next few days and show that it can be achieved. It's a fact that one thinks they remember how it sounded - until you listen to the records again.
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Post by frankmarvin on May 20, 2015 23:00:38 GMT
sounded top class to me,
Frank
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 10:23:06 GMT
Have to say, it sounds a bit like the sound coming from inside a metal drum, very compressed, weird...
Jim
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 21, 2015 10:58:29 GMT
And the original doesn't?
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Post by garyallen on May 21, 2015 11:53:41 GMT
Hi Dave,I think its a great sound, Should the melody be played on the bridge as in studio version ? as this leans towards the crackerjack version,depending on what the goal here is ! regards gary
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 15:13:43 GMT
Yes the original does sound somewhat compressed, but I think Soundcloud compresses all sound files anyway so that's what is probably making this sound even more compressed. Would be good to hear the recording away from Soundcloud and I am sure it would sound really good...
Jim
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 21, 2015 15:32:49 GMT
Hi Jim,
SoundCloud does compress all files as far as I understand, but one should be careful to not confuse sound compression with the loss of quality associated with file compression.
It might take a day or two as we are rather busy right now, but would you like me to try to arrange an mp3 that has not been further compressed by SoundCloud?
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 15:35:38 GMT
Yes please Charlie, that would be great, thanks....
Jim
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Post by bor64 on May 21, 2015 20:32:47 GMT
The Link doesn't work for me....pity
Cheers Rob
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Post by George Lewis on May 21, 2015 22:35:10 GMT
Hi Dave, Charlie (and Jim),
Indeed tough to get the recorded sound which is also influenced by the exuberant attack Hank used, particularly on the opening verses.
Getting pretty close though and the playing, including the little variations, certainly conveys the joy and spirit of the piece. I think Dave it must be one of your favourites.
As for Soundcloud .. to quote from their FAQ's.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't modify original audio files that are available for download. For streams, we convert the original into MP3 Joint Stereo for streaming.
Sometimes our transcoding system can create audio artifacts, as we transcode all tracks to 128 kbps mp3 for streaming playback.
We recommend uploading a lossless or high-quality lossy file to reduce these artifacts to a minimum, but unfortunately there's not much we can do for the handful of individual tracks that are still affected.
As a workaround, you can make your track downloadable. This allows your listeners to download your track in the exact format that you uploaded, without any transcoding.
To make your track downloadable, please go to the track's edit page (through the pencil icon underneath the waveform).
In the 'Permissions' tab, please click to make downloads enabled like this and click Save:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So any already compressed file will be re-compressed ... not good.
Making the track downloadable would at least offer the original uploaded quality for those who download rather than stream it.
regards
George
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Post by istvan on May 22, 2015 4:54:28 GMT
Very good!I like it!
Regards
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Post by grip on May 22, 2015 8:59:19 GMT
Hi Dave,
The remix is a lot better it's lost it's "synthetic" feel now, much closer sounds, and well played.
Kind regards,
Chris
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Post by localhero on May 22, 2015 12:45:04 GMT
Thanks everyone for your time and input.
One mustn't lose sight here that the object of this was to demonstrate that a close match could be achieved to the very strange sound of the original using the tiniest, probably cheapest amp in this genre. We do intend to go through various low budget amps at our disposal as well as the exact amp we believe it was recorded on, but never have I heard anyone, including Hank himself, get the same sound for FBI that we hear on the record and that is primarily what Charlie and I set out to do. Charlie gave me a bunch of frequencies to cut and boost on the mixer and I'm gobsmacked at what a difference it made. I know it isn't yet perfect, but I have let some other guitarist friends who I trust, some very close to the Shadows who are raving over the actual closeness of the tone, Dick Plant is one of them and as he spent many years as the Shadows and Brian Bennett's sound engineer I trust his opinion beyond doubt.
I mention this because it's easy to be put off by opinions of folks who haven't listened to the originals and you begin to doubt your own ears. We are running the original track along side our own and doing A/B comparisons all along the track. There are hundreds of 'variables' to consider, from the exact type of string to a nineteen year old's aggression and attitude in the picking technique along with the adrenalin rush created by the excitement of the moment . All these things make a difference and when listening again it becomes very clear. Re-producing it though is a different matter.
As far as choice of pickups go, I believe on the recording it's the middle pickup for the first two verses and middle eights, then the bridge pickup for the lower verses and tricky solo, though I normally always use the bridge pickup throughout the whole tune.
Regarding the comments made by Chris (Grip) I'm even more confused now as it's the same track, I haven't re-mixed it and never said I did. it was called FBI remix from day one.
I do feel that when we have a go with the 'proper' amp we will hear a big difference. Thanks again for your comments.
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Post by grip on May 22, 2015 13:15:15 GMT
Regarding the comments made by Chris (Grip) I'm even more confused now as it's the same track, I haven't re-mixed it and never said I did. it was called FBI remix from day one. I do feel that when we have a go with the 'proper' amp we will hear a big difference. Thanks again for your comments. I can only think that there was a playback quality issue when listening the first time...some observations...I note that for Bor64 couldn't get the link to work suggesting it may not have been there at the time, and the file still shows as 1 day old which would make it posted on the 21st. and when I listened to it 2 days ago it was the 20th.  Kind regards, Chris |
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Post by localhero on May 22, 2015 14:13:29 GMT
Who knows Chris, some of these sites are a law unto themselves. The track was made new by me on Wednesday. I sent Charlie three versions, the first was just FBI, the second was FBI revisited and the final one was the one on this thread, FBI remix. We did a bit of tweaking each time having heard stuff on the original that we felt could be achieved.
Thanks for taking the trouble to listen, I do appreciate you doing it.
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Post by garyallen on May 22, 2015 14:35:53 GMT
Hi Dave,Apart from (maybe) the overdub,Im surprised you believe the middle pickup was used on the studio version.A few years ago I spent a few days trying this tune with 2 Q2s, patch 03, and Abbey road, (one of the levels reduced to make the reverb about 50% wet,also making the echo pattern hard to distinguish/hear. best regards gary
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Post by philc on May 22, 2015 15:47:34 GMT
I posted FBI some weeks back, the thread is called "FBI (Another step closer +A/B)" I originally recorded it a few years ago but after learning more about Abbey Roads studio techniques and echo chamber sounds I re-mixed it.
Many hundreds of hours were spent on the lead and bt, experimenting and deciphering it. The lead is played with the bridge pickup throughout, the right amount of echo and the right amount of overdrive is very important also the right amount of reverb, but the reverb has to have the correct amount of pre-delay which works similar to a slapback, also the reverb has to be eq'ed right and not straight out of the box this is also very important.
The lead is not double tracked or ADT'd but there is double tracking with the A/E notes which the bass plays and also the muted parts.
Bruce's rhythm picking is also double tracked from Hanks high adlib to the end but not picking.
There are other things going on with the original but that another story.
Phil
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Post by localhero on May 22, 2015 23:20:11 GMT
Interesting stuff Phil, I'll be re-recording it soon with a big Vox so I'll remember what you have said.
Gary, I'll stick with the Bridge pickup and see what we come up with, I appreciate your thoughts.
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