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Post by glyderslead on Nov 14, 2016 10:12:16 GMT
Hello Mike,
I'm sure Bobo means the 3rd string. Besides, am I the only one that recalls having a wound 3rd that was just a "plain" string with a succession of bits of windings after a good few bends? Of course this was in the old days when strings were expensive and just had to be made to last longer until they were replaced.....!!
Cheers
Mick
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 14, 2016 10:13:26 GMT
Perhaps I should mention that my 'Electric Masters' are Hand-wound in Nickel over a round core. There is also an hexagonal core variant. Apparently the round core gives a 'warm, yet bright tone with the advantage of lower tension to pitch'. Anyway, I like 'em....a lot!
Mike
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 14, 2016 10:22:38 GMT
I think we have pretty much exhausted the technical side of wound versus plain third, although please do feel free to post if you have anything else to bring to the party. Can I suggest we broaden this discussion by discussing what the wound third brings to the table in terms of musicality?
Mike
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Post by andyj47 on Nov 14, 2016 12:11:00 GMT
I agree cruachan !just play the crikey thing !
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Post by shadfan4 on Nov 14, 2016 12:19:36 GMT
I think he was counting from the low "E" so probably a simple error. (But he is still right) I have a long affection for a wound 3rd due to my long associating with Shads music, but they do not work when I am trying to play Santana,Gary More etc, so that's why everyone needs more than one guitar, so show your other half this post if she moans about another guitar..... Mike.
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 14, 2016 12:47:37 GMT
Hi Mike, I think he was counting from the low "E" so probably a simple error. (But he is still right) Ah, my bad. It's so easy to become entrenched by convention. Please accept my apologies, bobo. Thanks, Mike, at long last I have an excuse to justify all that expenditure . Now, I need to think of a convincing way to present my case...LOL! Will need to tread cautiously, however, as have just suffered a failure of one of a pair of graphics cards configured in *SLI and these things ain't cheap (*For those unfamiliar with the acronym, "Scalable Link Interface (SLI) is a brand name for a multi-GPU technology developed by NVIDIA for linking two or more video cards together to produce a single output. SLI is an algorithm of parallel processing for computer graphics, meant to increase the processing power available for graphics." One of my other passions is Flight Simulation which, to work well, requires very capable hardware. Sorry, off topic.) Regards, Mike
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Post by shadfan4 on Nov 14, 2016 13:04:03 GMT
Just off topic definitely, but as you can see from my avatar that is my other extremely expensive and time consuming other activity. Mike.
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Post by peterbower on Nov 14, 2016 13:23:06 GMT
Les, what I have found is the more modern radius necks on later Fenders being 9.5" and some even 12" radius, a flat pole (all even height) seems to give a nice balanced sound, I tried some Duncan vintage flat and SSL6 hot on my US 90's standard Strat, excellent even out put with bog standard 10-46 Ernie Ball strings.I might try this idea on my Classic Vibe 50's Strat as it also has a modern 9.5" radius neck and I did notice a slight uneven volume out put especially on the plain 3rd, it was too loud. I'm sure this is more a pickup problem than a string problem but, its worth experimenting. Its also interesting to note that My Simon Neal has a really nice balanced output on all 6 strings, I wonder if that is because of the hybrid pickups, they are staying put.
Peter
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Post by glyderslead on Nov 14, 2016 19:09:45 GMT
Hello Mike.
I'm not sure if you were telling me off or putting me straight when you posted your "point of information" in detailing the strings you use today following my tongue in cheek comment after Bobo mentioned his experience with wound 3rd strings (or 4th counting the other way) that wear our quickly if they are used for a playing style that uses a lot of bends. just thought I would mention that in no way was I suggesting there was a problem with wound 3rds available today or your brand in particular. I just thought other poor players in the '60's would also recollect using strings to the bitter end in those days by which time the wound third (which was all that could be bought at the time)was truly in a sorry state.
Cheers
Mick
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 14, 2016 21:54:30 GMT
Hi Mick,
Tell you off? I wouldn't dream of it and I'm sorry if it came across as such. Posting in forums can be such a potential minefield as sometimes stuff comes across in ways not intended by the author. I've edited the post so hopefully it now appears less confrontational, if at all.
Cheers, Mike 🍺
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Post by peterbower on Nov 15, 2016 11:31:20 GMT
Good article and diagrams about staggered and flat poles, neck radius's and wound thirds in the Ironstone pickups Web site
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Post by bazmusicman on Nov 15, 2016 16:57:58 GMT
Hello Mike. I'm not sure if you were telling me off or putting me straight when you posted your "point of information" in detailing the strings you use today following my tongue in cheek comment after Bobo mentioned his experience with wound 3rd strings (or 4th counting the other way) that wear our quickly if they are used for a playing style that uses a lot of bends. just thought I would mention that in no way was I suggesting there was a problem with wound 3rds available today or your brand in particular. I just thought other poor players in the '60's would also recollect using strings to the bitter end in those days by which time the wound third (which was all that could be bought at the time)was truly in a sorry state. Cheers Mick I well remember the third wound string 'shredding' in the sixties and bits of the wrap sliding up and down the string! Regards, Baz.
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Post by Simon Underwood on Nov 16, 2016 13:29:04 GMT
Just to stick my few pence worth in:
I tend to stick to 10-46 for most things. I tried a wound third on my CS 56 NOS Strat, but I actually found it was too quiet. For this gauge set, the correct wound third is an 18, but I think the inner steel core is much too thin to give enough output from a vintage stagger pickup. With the heavier gauges, this isn't a problem, as it's these gauges that the pickups were designed for. I also find the top E is too quiet. What I do is to change the top E for an 11, and the G for a 16, which seems to do the trick.
Simon
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 22, 2016 20:42:59 GMT
First Impressions
1. The core of the wound third (0.018") is significantly thinner than the plain 3rd (0.017"). Does this, I wonder, make it more at risk of snapping during bends? 2. The nut slot of my Standard accommodates the 0.018" gauge with ease and no binding has been detected. 3. Tuning to pitch and intonation (see Roger's post immediately below) is much easier and with greater stability than with the plain third. 4. String noise is audible at times during slides - not a huge issue, just different. 5. Playability is good and chords show good balance of sound output across all six strings. No string predominates. Harmonics at the 7th and 12th frets sound great! 5. Output from the string picked up by the CS Fat 50s staggered 3rd pole seems well balanced with the other strings. 6. The current setting of the heel of the floating bridge (8/64" off the deck) does not allow an upward bend beyond 2 half tones compared to 3 half tones (minor third) with the plain 3rd. 7. Many have stated that bends are more difficult with a wound third. I can confirm that this is true, but only in the sense that the string has to be pushed much further to achieve a full tonal difference in pitch. Again, I wonder if this would place the string at risk of snapping if done too often. Bending, however, is easier as the string feels to be under lighter tension than the plain third. However, effectively bending is limited to half tones. I am finding that I need to use the whammy bar to pull up a full tone which is far from being ideal and requires an adjustment to my playing technique.
So, on the whole my initial impressions are quite favourable, but with some minor (?) reservations relating mostly to string noise and performance during bends. It wouldn't be fair to issue a verdict at this very early stage. It needs to be tested under proper playing conditions and my next jamming session comes up in a couple of days time.
Mike
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Post by Roger... on Nov 23, 2016 7:10:02 GMT
Hi Mike,
Your observations are spot-on. In the three years that I have been using a wound 3rd, I have never had one break (I use D'Addario 10-46's with a 0.018 wound 3rd). I change my strings about every two months or so. The other thing to mention which you have probably already found out, is that with the wound 3rd the bridge saddle has to be moved forward (towards the neck) to correct the intonation.
Kind regards Roger
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 23, 2016 10:02:59 GMT
The other thing to mention which you have probably already found out, is that with the wound 3rd the bridge saddle has to be moved forward (towards the neck) to correct the intonation. Hi Roger, Yes, you're absolutely correct, I knew there was something else nagging at the back of my mind that I'd forgotten to mention. Thanks very much for reminding me. Once that small correction was applied, the string intonated with ease. Kind regards, Mike
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Post by bor64 on Nov 27, 2016 19:56:10 GMT
On my 58 strat dedicated for the old tunes I use a 32w as G string....it works like a dream in the set! 14-17-32-42-52-62 very well balanced and the sound is great. The guitar is strung like this at least two decades without a problem...
Cheers Rob
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 28, 2016 19:16:48 GMT
Hi Rob, Yours: 14, 17, 32, 42, 52, 62 Mine: 10, 13, 17, 26, 36, 46 Wow! Apart from having to enrol with a gym to strengthen my left hand, this string gauge combination would, I suspect, have so many implications for the guitar's setup! With immense respect and admiration I think I'll decide to pass on this one To me, these are more like cables rather than a 'normal' 6 String guitar string set and without a bucket load of spinach I certainly wouldn't be able to cope with them...LOL! Honestly I wouldn't have believed that you could purchase such a heavy gauged set until I came across these: (11, 14, 18, 36, 52, 70) www.stringsdirect.co.uk/strings-c1/electric-guitar-strings-sets-c189/6-string-sets-c303/ghs-ghs-boomers-gbzwlo-nickel-plated-steel-electric-guitar-strings-11-70-zakk-wylde-p2544Shows how much I know These may appear to be heavy, but strings 1-4 are, in fact, much lighter than yours, but still heavier than I could manage to play comfortably. I am assuming your choice of individual string combination on your 58 Strat is a very personal customised one and each string is purchased separately. Regards, Mike
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Post by bor64 on Nov 29, 2016 17:11:17 GMT
Hi Mike,
The heavy set is indeed composite by myself...the standard set I use is 11-14-17-32-42-52 also put together by myself...so in fact I just left the 11 out and placing each gauge one position lower on the neck and ad a 62 on the low E position.... Playing these strings is just a tat marginal heavier, remember Hank did also the MOM bend on kinda the same gauges.... It's just practising and again and again...I bend also my Bass VI strings....and I'm no hercules for sure, so if I can...so can others....
Cheers Rob
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Post by Cruachan on Nov 29, 2016 20:43:00 GMT
Hi Rob,
I understand what you are saying, but......
Do you prefer a low or high action? Thinking of my current setup the 6th string is set higher than the 1st largely because of the greater tendency for the thicker gauge to hit the adjacent higher frets resulting in fret buzz. Does this mean that your action is set higher overall when compared with a standard setup? If this is the case then that would be another reason why I don't think I would be able to manage to play a similar string gauge set.
Bringing this thread back towards topic you will be aware that I have been trying a wound third. The gauge (0.018") is slightly larger than the plain third (0.017") yet I am finding it just as easy to play (I presume this is because it has a thinner core) tunes to pitch with very little effort and the sound produced is quite pleasant on the ear. However, I still have some reservations about not being able to achieve a full tone upward bend without pushing the string so much further than I needed to do with the plain. I note your third is twice the diameter and I have to wonder what it must be like to bend without resorting to using the whammy bar.
Regards, Mike
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Post by bor64 on Nov 30, 2016 20:11:13 GMT
Hi Mike,
When I bend my plain strings on the 11-52 "normal" set I do it most of the time only with my ring finger. When I bend the 32w G string I use two or three fingers to get the a result, of course the 32w can't be bend as high as a plain 17 or 18... I don't use my trem for up bends...
The action of my guitars with the 11-52 is pretty low, the 14-62 is higher, the part about the low E string is thru...because "hard waking" the string involved quite a wobble ...
Cheers Rob
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Post by ALopez46 on Nov 30, 2016 21:46:33 GMT
Hi The third winded G has solved the problem of the high volume I had with the third flat G. There is now volume balance on all strings. My guitar is a Fender American Standard Stratocaster with FAT-50 pickup bought this summer.
Greetings.
ALopez46 my canal on YT.
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Post by bor64 on Dec 1, 2016 6:32:18 GMT
Hi 130946, or (the name you use on YT) Antonio....
The FAT-50's are a derivative of the originals developed in the early 50's, back then it wasn't normal practise to have a plain G....so no wonder you have a good result with a wound G.
Cheers Rob
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Post by Cruachan on Dec 1, 2016 19:24:06 GMT
The FAT-50's are a derivative of the originals developed in the early 50's, back then it wasn't normal practise to have a plain G....so no wonder you have a good result with a wound G. ...and that, I believe, nicely sums up why many consider it appropriate to use a wound third with the Custom Shop Fat 50s. I think I'll leave the wound third on my American Standard but will stick with the plain third on my American Deluxes. Thanks Rob! Regards, Mike
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Post by philmcg on Dec 1, 2016 19:47:35 GMT
Hi Mike, Just found this ! what a long thread. Just a quickie from me for what it's worth. Prefer plain 3 string on electrics, why because the tone changes when you go to wire wound. A lot of solo's use the top 3 strings and you dont want to hear the difference if the 3rd is wound. keep em guessing.
On acoustics a different story need a wound 3rd to give more power. Plain 3rd's are weaker on acoustics.
Just my opinion... Elixir have got it nailed.
Cheers Phil
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Post by ALopez46 on Dec 1, 2016 21:58:47 GMT
Hi Rob Many thanks. My YT channel is ALopez46.
Greetings Antonio
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Post by Cruachan on Dec 1, 2016 23:00:46 GMT
Prefer plain 3 string on electrics, why because the tone changes when you go to wire wound. A lot of solo's use the top 3 strings and you dont want to hear the difference if the 3rd is wound. keep em guessing. Hi Phil, Thanks very much for your input. It's good to have options and for those of us lucky enough to have several guitars each can be strung to allow a quick switch as the choice of tune demands. I haven't tried a wound third on my Am Deluxes but I suspect it wouldn't work as these pickups would not be a good match - both sets noiseless, one samarium cobalt and the other N3 Alnico. The object of this exercise, I suppose, was to try to recreate those sounds of the 50s and the choice of instrument/strings forms an important integral part of that equation. That obsessive compulsion continues...LOL! Regards, Mike
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