Understanding the music behind the songs

[Steve Reynolds]

Hi All

This is going to be a bit of a random post but for a long time as a self taught guitarist i have played by ear and with tabs etc with the most basic of musical theory. However recently i have been trying to learn more about what is going on in musical terms in some of the songs I play and this now leads me on to the point of this post.

Apache is in the key of Am and looking at the notes they seem to fit the natural minor scale however the use of the D major chord doesn't tie in to the theory at first glance.

Below is the chords from Aminor as taken from the internet.

i iidim III iv v VI VII
Amin Bdim Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj
Amin7 Bm7b5 Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7

Am i making any sense to anyone? If so can anyone tell me what i am missing and how the D major chord fits?

Thanks in advance

Steve

[shadfan4]

Well as Am is the relative minor to key of C, (the same notes) therein should be an answer......

Mike.

[Steve Reynolds]

Hi Mike

Thanks yes i was aware of the relative minors but the chords in the key of C are the same just in a different relative order as below? It makes the F# of the D major chord not fit in my opinion and yet it does?

I ii iii IV V vi vii
Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bdim
Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bm7b5

[shadfan4]

Well I do have a pretty good idea of music theory but still cannot give a definitive answer. Maybe the different scale modes might have a clue ie: the blues scale is usually pentatonic.

Lydian (Starting Mode)
Ionian (Lydian with natural 4)
Mixolydian (Ionian with b7)
Dorian (Mixolydian with b3)
Aeolian (Dorian with b6)
Phrygian (Aeolian with b2)
Locrian (Phrygian with b5)

Mike.

[sandra]

I have no idea of why it is like that Steve but I do remember hearing many years ago, when the Beatles were just becoming popular, someone saying that it was obvious that neither Lennon nor McCartney knew anything about music as you can not follow such and such a chord with the one they did

So I guess it's a case of it works and sounds right then it does not necessary have to stick rigidly to the formulaic methods.

[rogercook]

I think the scale for Apache may be A melodic minor. The IV chord of A melodic minor is D major!

www.basicmusictheory.com/a-melodic-minor-triad-chords

I like to think of the theory as a useful guide, eg working out and understanding chord progressions and how they fit together (I, vi, IV, V etc) but not strict rules, after all rules are there to be broken!

Thinking about FBI, the melody derives from A min but the chords are from A maj.

[ALopez46]

Hi Steve.

There are 3 minor scales, the lowest natural, the lowest harmonic and the lowest melodic.
In the minor harmonic scale the 7th grade is altered 1 semitone above and in the minor melodic scale the 6th and 7th grades are altered.
In the Am-melodic scale we have the notes A-B-C-D-E-F#-G#. Hence the notes D-F#-A of the major D chord.
At a certain point it changes from natural Am to melodic Am and returns to natural Am.

I hope you have understood.

Cheers /Antonio

[Steve Reynolds]

Thanks Roger and Antonio that makes perfect sense now.

Sorry for the question but it's the engineer part of my brain. I like to know how things fit together including music. Makes a lot of sense now

[scanners]

I'm confused how that works, some solos swap between keys, the smoke on the water solo swaps between C major and G minor I think
Matthew

[scanners]

Don Felder talking music keys here www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLcL4MkpJQ4
Matthew

[rosemary]

Hi Steve
Like others I have basic music theory which ties in with much of what has been said above with relative major and minor keys (as also seen in the key signatures in musical notation (e.g. the number of sharps or flats the song has e.g. A Minor and C major have no sharps or flats).The beauty of music and what makes interesting music though are the modulations from key to key and often the departure from the rules as song writing has no rules. The Beatles were brilliant at modulating to different keys. Another interesting jump to an unexpected key is Davie Bowie's Life on Mars. It's really interesting following the chord progression of different songs and nothing has to fit to the rules if it sounds good. One little note added to a chord can lead to another key - or in musical notation an accidental is a note that isn't part of the key the song is in but enhances the melody and makes it more interesting if used wisely.
Best wishes
Rosemary

[rogercook]

The Shadows tune Sweet Dreams has a great chord progression (chords available from http://goran.tangring.com).

[kipper]

Feb 3, 2017 14:46:52 GMT sandra said:

I have no idea of why it is like that Steve but I do remember hearing many years ago, when the Beatles were just becoming popular, someone saying that it was obvious that neither Lennon nor McCartney knew anything about music as you can not follow such and such a chord with the one they did

So I guess it's a case of it works and sounds right then it does not necessary have to stick rigidly to the formulaic methods.

hi Sandra I remember being told or reading that at the time. just goes to show if you never try anything new everything stays the same.. good job nobody listen during that era. peter

[baz]

Hi Steve.......music theory will give you the intervals and notes of a scale........any others are passing note but if they are not dissonant can be used.
Chords can have extensions formed by adding notes which are not in the key/scale of the chord they are used in. Take the classic "Purple Haze" E7#9.

Play through the chords of Sleepwalk in C........the Fmin is not in the C major chord sequence ...........but doesn't it sound sweet?

Modulating (as compared to a simple keychange of a semi or whole tone) from one key to another during a song is widely used.......Revisit some of Brian Wilsons clasics...God only knows: Warmth of the sun (exquisite)etc and Nick Kershaw uses modulation to great effect.

Regards

Baz