50th Anniversary Shadows Stratocaster.

[bor64]

A friend of mine asked me last week, which strat of mine has the same or nearest pickup "strength" as the 34346 strat...
As far as my knowledge goes has nearly every pre-cbs strat different pickup windings turns and therefore it's almost impossible to know what the famous strat has under the bonnet.
I can imagine not a lot of folks, are into the know about the red old lady, so my thoughts go out to the 50th anniversary strat.
It seems that Fender did go to great length to copy this iconic guitar in detail.
So I've a humble request...Would somebody, who owns a sample of this fine guitar or knows the actual facts of the original holy grail strat pickups facts, like how much kilo Ohm etc....please be so kind to inform me? Perhaps in PM or here.

Thank you!


Cheers Rob

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Rob,
If it helps, on 34346 the G magnet poles are lower than the usual 50s staggered pickups, like on early 60s pickups. I don't know about the windings but I am not so sure Fender would have copied them exactly even if they had the details.
Regards,
Charlie

[bor64]

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for your swift reply!
I've saw that the third time, I held the 34346 in my hands.
The first two times I was to nervous to notice....
The G pole is as low as the high E string pole.
There are some 59 strat pu's off factory with a "pushed though"...I saw 3 sets...two on a slapboard and one set for sale...
Errr I didn't wanted them at that time ('81), because I thought they were dodgy...
Whatta mistaka da meka...(Lieutenant Burtorelli, Allo' Allo')

Cheers Rob

[philc]

Rob,

As you know, early Strats were produced with what was available at the time, there was no standard magnet hight pattern or windings, my 63 is different to my two 62's which have a different setup as the 3rd magnet is a lot lower on the later one, so low in fact that a wound third is very quiet, it's ok with an un wound however.

I know that Paul has said that when he played 34346 it was very thin sounding.

About time you bought a few more "vintage"

Phil

[peterbower]

There is some very well researched info on Fender pickup specs in A.R. Duchossoir's book 'The Fender Stratocaster'

My own favourite sound was from Hank's large head stock Strat he played in the 70's, His live stage performance with his black large head stock Maple finger board Strat was to my ears superb. they were stock 70's pickups so I'm told, they were not overly warm and had a very Fender twang and outstanding clarity without being glassy, mind you all the other components in the mix obviously had a part to play.


Peter B

[philc]

I have that book Peter, it's very informative but it's pickup spec is very basic, it also mentions that there are lots of variants regarding magnets, winds etc. so, nothing hard and fast!

Phil

[bor64]

Phil,

You're right about everything you wrote, with the knowledge we have now it's easy to reflect...
But back then even after buying two pre-cbs strats...my knowledge was very small about that subject in compare with now.
Apart from the very basic Ken Archard book, there was nothing about Fenders published regarded details on Fender guitars.
Nowadays when I look at my bookshelves I see 15+ feet of guitar and amp books...and what about the net...
Vintage...well bin there done that and got multiple T-shirts
I've bought in this year alone, 5 new strats (no Fender,2 HB and 3 MP lower budget guitars with surprisingly hi quality)and 1 kind of Jazzmaster(Revelation)and at the moment, I'm just spraying the headstock of a self-build strat in British Racing Green with ToneRider pu's.

Peter,

I have the exact same guitar as you wrote about...
You love that sound you wrote, well that black strat of Hank has changed pu's many times.
First few weeks the original single coils.
Then a Fender and Gibson humbucker in neck and bridge position and vice versa after a re-spray in black.
Then some FS1 Dimarzio and at the last SD SSL 1....
So which sound you revere, is difficult to pinpoint.
The AR Duchossoir books (all 3 editions are great for there time, but tons of more genuine info is surfaced later, pity they stopped publishing these.)

Cheers Rob

[philc]

Rob,

My first Strat was acquired via a swap, a guy I was teaching to play back in 1966 had a 63 Olympic White Strat, I had a 61 SG Special, I more or less convinced him that my guitar was better than his, but I was looking for a change and we swapped...I was a bad boy but I yearned for a Strat

In those days, there wasn't really vintage guitars and a Strat was just a good guitar, so, my guitar was at one time painted over the white with flowers, it has beed stripped and the wood stained and lacquered, the neck, re-profiled, fret board scalopped, extra wire added to the pickups, pickup switches added, a power booster fitted internally and probably a few more thinks done that I have forgotten!!! If only we knew

About ten years ago, I put the guitar back as close as I could to original...and it won't be touched in that way again! The good news is, it still sounds as it should

Phil

[scanners]

I have a 60th anniversary strat and picks are thinner than my Mexican 50s strat
Matthew

[bor64]

Hi Phil,

Yes indeed if we knew back then!
Don't forget you added a massive copper disk to boost the sustain
A previous owner of my 58, bevelled the pick-guard( maybe to go with flow with the later 3 layer bevelled guards)so the 1 layer white 1.6mm guard looks much thicker, even more as the 2.1 mm replica/reissue guards Fender sells now.
They added a 5 way switch in the late 70's and patch up the paintwork at places....
Well a old original period correctly 3 way is re-installed by me....

Cheers Rob

[philc]

Hi Rob,

In the 70's I was playing Purple, Heap etc. heavy stuff, the trend then was brass for sustain, I made a brass nut and also a complete bridge unit, no idea where it is now! Also, if you remember, one of my 62's had a modern 5 way switch, the original was in the case broken, but I repaired it, much better to have original!

Phil

[peterbower]

Hi philc, Fender build guitars to a tried and tested specification, but its not an exact science, there will always be variations, perhaps only small in the sound a Strat produces even from the same production run. Pickups have always been a bit of a mystery to me and although I know the basic construction, but any subtleties in magnets, wiring, etc are out of my knowledge area. Over the years I have read and seen claims by many after market pickup makers that this pickup or that pickup will have the sound you are looking for, my answer to that is 'Maybe'

Peter

[philc]

Hi Peter,

When someone copies say a 1956 pickup, then they are copying an example they have viewed and tested, however, as you have mentioned, there are many variations, so I would imagine that in that production line, the spec would be the same, but this could change at any time as a new batch of pickups could be totally different. The good thing is, we have early Shadows recording to base the sound on and that's usually what we are after, Paul with his tests and Chris Kinman for example have come up with a close as possible copy of the early sound that Hank had back then.

Phil

[cockneymike]

I notice on the Oasis Music website they have one of the 50th Anniversary limited edition stratocasters for sale....number 27.

"Presented in collectors grade immaculate condition", so whoever owned it probably did not play it much.

[philc]

I wonder how close the sound really is compared to the original?

Phil

[fenderplucker]

I compared it directly with 34346 during the Perth rehearsals for the Australian leg of the Reunited world tour and they are very similar. Probably within the normal range of variation of those early Strats.

Paul.

[bor64]

Hi Paul,

Any change, if possible.... could you please be so kind to provide me with the measurements of the 34346 or the 50th anniversary shadows strat pickups please

How many kOhm and gauss, henries perhaps for each pu?

If so, would you please be so kind to pm me?

I'll would very grateful!

Cheers,

Rob

[fenderplucker]

Hi Rob,

I only played the two guitars, I didn't take any electrical measurements.

Paul.

[bor64]

Hi Paul,

Pity that could have bin an excellent opportunity


Cheers Rob

[andyj47]

hi shadfans,been reading your thoughts on how special the pickups on this guitar and the famous 34346 vary.im probably in a minority on this site with this thinking,but i think there isnt a whole lot of difference in any fender strat pickups,certainly not noticable to any audience not particularly into the shads.there was nothing magical about 34346,it was just a good fender in the hands of a very talented young man !!i should think if we could compare it with a modern strat in a guitar plugged straight into the amp test, that is no effects at all there would be very little difference.the great sound is from hanks hands,abbey road and the convergence of the vox and meazzi. ok ive put my tin hat on,anybody think like me ?

[bor64]

Andy,

Your thoughts are right, the 34346 is no magic stick.
This quest is not to get the last drop of that sound out of the bottle
The thing is, a friend of mine ask me, which one of my strats has the same pickup strength as the 34346.
So that got me thinking, nothing more nothing less....and to get to know that I have to connect the dots.
Here at home I have the sound I want.
I've seen and hold Hanks guitars and I still sounded as myself, although I use exactly the same stuff as Hank at Home...he will always be the missing link in every chain imaginable!

Cheers Rob

[philc]

Rob, it would be good to find out if one of your Strats has the same pickup spec as that oldie, but unless someone publishes that spec it looks like you/we will never know?

You are of course right in mentioning that Hank is the missing link, it looks like these days he is taking more interest in the sound he originally had re- Kinmans etc, for live work I think this will please his fans, however, he is in the same position as all of us regarding Abbey Road's magic, there again, back in those days, it wasn't regarded as "magic" it was just the way things were done!

Phil

[glyderslead]

Hello Phil,

Well I’m not the missing link either..........according to my Ancestry DNA results I have a very low Neanderthal count...........though the wife may not agree with that!!!

I’m sure many of us have found that the H&CSE has helped us to get closer to the early sound produced by Hank, so it would be interesting to hear 34346 played through that unit next to various other Strats with similar pickups.

Can’t wait to get the new unit Charlie has designed which may prove to be the missing tone link for many of us.

But that said, I hope Rob is able to succeed in his quest for pickup details and thereby enable members here to check out their own pickups as they search for those wonderful early sounds.

Cheers

Mick

[bor64]

Well I'm looking forwards(it can take some time) to receive the measurements of the genuine 34346 and 2 50th anniversary strats.

So I'm very grateful to the folks who helped out and will help in the future in my quest.

I'll keep you posted, although I don't know yet, if I will be allowed to share the findings.

Cheers Rob