Muted Notes

[Roger...]

Hi Folks,

A bit of advice please.

How do i get my muted notes to have that 'mellowy/hollow' sound, rather than just a bright click (plus echo) when using the bridge pickup.

Equip:
1979 USA Strat
9 - 46 Hybrid strings
Roland Cube 30X Amplifier
MagicStomp Mk2
Charlie's patches

It sounds very good on the neck and middle pickup, but not on the bridge.

I have tried moving my hand slightly, also experimented with hand pressure etc., all to no avail.

My Bass, Middle, and Treble amplifier controls are set to 50% ( I have tried different combinations).

I have noticed on YouTube, and other videos that I've watched that the sound on the muted notes has a nice mellowy/hollow effect.

Any ideas?

Best regards
Roger

[tonybiker]

Hi Roger.

There is no hard and fast way to approach muting or should I say no one way that works. I have trouble with the vintage trem saddles due to the screws but fine with the flat style standard trem saddles. A member did suggest shorter screws to ensure only the string is touched.

Practice is the key to prefect it. It does sound better on the middle or neck pick ups, and if your finding that then your on the right track. On Atlantis I think Hank used the middle on the muted parts but the bridge on the rest, but changing from middle to bridge is almost impossible to do live.

I have more recently over-come the problem by cheating. I use a Behringer CS100 compressor/sustainer pedal on the muted parts, this also helps by increasing the volume which is lost when you mute.

How hard you pick, the pick you use and how hard your press with your palm do make a difference.

So no quick fix just practice. When you start to relax and accept it then you find your doing it!

[peterbower]

Roger
I don't profess to have all the answers, but Hank i believe played a lot more tunes on the middle pickup than we have given him credit for. Thus, muted playing on this pickup may be the answer.
Hank often switched to the neck pickup for the muted sections of a tune, not always but quite often.

This may be how he achieved those mellow/hollow muted tones just by simply using these 2 pickups rather than the bridge pickup. Of course, the muted technique its self is some thing you will have to perfect. What i do know is that Hank did not rest his hand too hard on the bridge as he never really had a completely 'dead' note, it was as i call it semi dead muted note which allowed a little brightness to the note rather than a 'thud' which is just repeated by the echo chamber.

Hope this helps a little.
Peter

[Roger...]

Thanks Tony and Peter.

Peter, I know what you mean by semi-dead, by resting your hand on the bridge very lightly. That is the way I have tried to achieve the sound I want. I think I'll have to persevere more.

Many thanks.

Best regards
Roger

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Roger,
It may be that you simply need to reduce the treble when using the bridge pickup. I came to this conclusion when you said the middle and neck pickups sound OK.
Regards,
Charlie

[Roger...]

Hi Charlie,

If I reduce the treble, then I lose some of the 'attack (bite, punch)' on the low notes. I'll just have to compromise I think.

Best regards
Roger

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Roger,
It is usually necessary to EQ the amp differently for different Shadows tunes, especially those played on different pickups. Also for earlier Shadows tunes you need less bass than for the more modern Shadows tunes. A lot also depends on how your amp responds with EQ changes. The bite of lower notes is a lower frequency than the stinging treble that can cause what you are experiencing. Perhaps some increase of mids would help to retain the frequency that the lower notes need.
Regards,
Charlie

[grip]

Hi Roger,

I have noticed that muting is easier/cleaner with the pressed steel saddles on my Highway One than the solid stainless steel saddles used on the American Standard, so I guess there is a bit of a trade off there with regard to sustain.

Kind regards


grip

[Roger...]

Hi All,

Many thanks.

I think I've exhausted all the combinations. Maybe I'm expecting a little too much from my limited setup.

Best regards
Roger

[sheendigs]

Hi Roger
My technique is different..
I use more volume than normally..
I play softly and the muted parts come out nice..
If need arise..I can strike with more force on the strings.
At Toronto Shadowmania in 2001, I saw and heard a group there from the USA and the soloist told me that he preferred to 'whack' his strings with more gusto...! ;D
I forgot to say that my bridges are the flat stainless ones and so that the screws do not hurt me..I have flattened them..
Sheendigs

[Cruachan]

Hi Roger,

I realise that this probably isn't going to be much help to you, but before I discovered that Hank was in fact palm muting I achieved 'that sound' by muting each note with the playing fingers of my left hand. Indeed the sound was so convincing that I believed this was how Hank was in fact doing it. Unfortunately this does require a fair amount of accuracy to hit each fret at just the right point to stop the note from sounding unmuted or worse, partially muted.

I found I was having good days and bad days using this technique and I needed to find a method that produced more consistent results. Now I know that palm (or, more strictly, that should be edge of palm) muting is the way to go I, like you, am faced with having to practice the technique until I get it right. When you have plenty time to place your right hand in the correct position then it's usually okay, but time is rarely a luxury in the middle of a number.

My instrument is an American Deluxe Strat and it has a flat stainless steel bridge (Deluxe 2-Point Synchronized Tremolo). Palm placement does feel relatively comfortable although it can be difficult to judge how much fore and aft to use without the pick hitting the middle PU. I find that I have to have my little finger relatively straight and following the line of the palm edge that is doing the muting.

The guys have been offering some helpful advice in the Techniques forum and I am fairly confident I'll get there in the end. I think it's all down to practice and muscle training until it becomes second nature. I hoped for a shortcut solution; sadly I don't think there is one. Even the VML Easy Mute arm didn't help me as I found it was loose and wobbled slightly in the hole - mine is a snap-in fit rather than the screw-in variety.

I use D'Addario XL 10-46 strings
Magicstomp Mk2 with Charlie's EFTP patches
BOSS CS-3 and DD-7 (on analogue setting)
Fender Blues Junior Amp

Regards,

Mike

[Roger...]

Hi Sheendigs,

Unfortunatly, I already play with a soft technique, but I do know what you mean.

Hi Mike,

I have never heard of using the left hand before. You must have mastered it very well. I have been playing Shadows music for about 50 years and I have tried different palm techniques along the way. I think for some years now I have found about the closest to sound that I am looking for. Unfortunatly, its still not as close as I would like. I think the answer lies in the 'tonal' setup of my equipment. Perhaps it needs a BOSS GE-7 EQ or something in there.

Many thanks for the replies.

Best regards
Roger

[sheendigs]

Hi Roger
There are tons of exercise to learn about palm muting.
An example here:
www.start-playing-guitar.com/palm-muting.html
Else just type 'palm muting' in google and you will see what I mean..Good Luck!
The site also explains the difference about different muting:

Palm muting is any technique used to place part of your strumming hand on the strings, usually at or near the bridge. This technique creates a sound some call 'percussive', others refer to the sound as thumpy, crunchy, "chucka-chucka" or some similar descriptor.

Chord muting is usually used to quickly dampen a clean-sounding chord, cutting short a burst of sound.

Sheendigs

[Cruachan]

Hi Roger,

Just to be clear, in case you wish to give it a shot, I'm not talking about 'chord muting' as that link provided by sheendigs also describes.

When I come to a muted section I play the notes as normal, but instead of placing the playing finger just behind the fret it is placed on top of the fret. I discovered that if I applied just the right amount of pressure it would produce a nicely dampened sound. Sounds great for stuff like the Atlantis and 1861 intro sections and the muted variation in Wonderful Land.

But, as I said, the down side is having to place each finger accurately and not press too hard or the string will ring out. Great if you get it right and I usually find myself relaxing back into the rest of a number once that section has passed. The trick I find is to use a generous area of finger pulp while applying gentle pressure down onto the fret.

Try it. Even if you don't use it routinely it could prove to be a nice additional string to your bow.

Best regards,

Mike

[grip]

Hi dyker124,

Theres a good close up of the Ventures doing palm muting at 1 minute into the vid (link posted by sten here charliehall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2637)

Kind regards

grip

[Roger...]

sheendigs, Mike, and grip, many thanks.

grip, I am having a problem getting the link to work, any ideas?

Best regards
Roger

[grip]

Hi Dyker124,

try the direct link to the clip

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-99rM8Mrfs

Kind regards


grip

[Roger...]

Many thanks grip, the link works ok now.

Best regards
Roger