Delay pedal/systems recommendations

[petemarko]

Would someoone be so kind to recommend a few delay pedals that would be suitable for getting that elusive "Hanks" sound. I'm thinking pedals that will get me fairly close with out the need to sell my wifes car.

So much great information to read here with so little time. (any pointers to relative theads would be appreciated also)

BTW, I do have an MXR carbon Copy which works reasonably well, I'm considering getting  a second unit to daisy chain? 

Perhaps I should leave it as is? What say you.

I am no expert so any help appeciated, Pete

[garystrat]

Hi Pete,

Depending on your budget it's worth looking at the Strymon Volante, for me it has provided much of that elusive tone/character that I was seeking for a long time without breaking the bank. One of the things that caught my attention was the Class A JFET analogue path prior to the advanced chip power of the digital algorithms, overall it comes together to give the feel of using a vintage unit without the hassle, it also does what it says in being a “Magnetic Echo Machine” that has the potential to cover other echo units and tape saturation effects.

Whilst it's a 4 head Binson design and not strictly early recording correct, there is a head spacing control that provides very credible results as you can hear in the videos below.

Darrell has made several posts in "Members Sound Files" using one, the link below is his recording of Blue Star:

charliehall.proboards.com/thread/26977/kaussa-lancaster-plugin-blue-star

These recordings are done by Dave Robinson and whilst simply recorded, will give an idea of the early number capability:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws4eSHi2H2A

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiaqZ_VYHFs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-huePyuD40

This is is currently priced around £430.00 and here is a link to the website:

www.strymon.net/product/volante/

Hope that will be of help.

Regards

Gary

[darrell12345]

Hi Pete,
I highly recommend the Strymon volante Echo unit.
Early last year I was also looking for a Echo unit that would provide me that exclusive sound ,I have had many Echo units over the years but when Gary and a few others told me about the Strymon volante I decided to purchase one.
I was totally blown away by the tone and sound it produces and I now have that sound we are all looking for.
If you do purchase one myself and Gary would be glad to help you with any settings, I personally use too settings which can be easily achieved for Apache and wonderful land, tge wonderful land setting covers many tunes and by reducing the Echo level and delay you get the results for Dance on foottapper Etc.
Cheers,
Darrell

[bernardj]

Gary, Darrell, others



the level of the heads must be programmed using Midi code because the pedal can only do full power or half power... whereas you have to be more precise to obtain the correct rolling of the rebounds

for this reason several fans resold their pedal
this is regrettable because it allows a good approach in the digital field

app.box.com/s/496crus4mrbe7y3tquq656dleucy2v2l

I hope to do a post soon with my Clone Sep/Meazzi to make a comparison

Bernard from France 

[sandra]

Hi Pete,

If you are only a home player and you have a windows computer or laptop, the program unfortunately doesn't work directly on Mac or Linux systems, then you can get excellent Shadows sounds for free using Christian's VST Host computer program.
You would need a USB interface similar to a Focusrite or Roland, in order to connect your guitar to the computer.

Some users even play live performances using a laptop with the program installed on it.

VST Host Forum

This is Christian playing Apache using the program.

[garystrat]

Hi Bernard,

Your Clone Sep/Meazzi sounds truly wonderful and I look forward to hearing your new sound file postings, but many people simply don’t have either the access or that sort of budget, Pete clearly doesn’t want to sell his wife’s car! LOL

The Volante is an analogue/digital design where the dry signal is never converted to digital and it has a premium JFET analogue front end (this is in the Audio Quality Specification). I recognise what you are saying about precision head level settings on early recording correct patches, but neither Darrell nor I feel that any perceived shortcoming detracts from it being one of the best reasonably priced units on the market for authentic sounding vintage echoes, as reflected in many reviews.

Several fans may well have sold their units and indeed been influenced by particular views, but I would be more concerned about any deep editing that goes beyond the manufactures intended use and the warrantee specifically excludes unauthorised modifications. I knew that I was getting Binson style head modelling with the stated specification and have found a unit that for me personally provides a very satisfying experience. I believe that I qualified expectations in the above post and provided sound file links for anyone considering this to make a valued judgement.

Whilst I respect your knowledge and dedication in seeking perfection, your post seems intend to dissuade people who might otherwise find the Volante suits them very well indeed. Many of us have been on a journey trying to find that elusive echo over the years, for me and I believe Darrell, we have stepped back to using modern technology to get the hyper advanced modelling and feel of the viable vintage units of the day, in doing so we have found motivation and a really enjoying the experience!

Regards

Gary

[bernardj]

Hi Gary

yes the Strymon has all the qualities you are talking about 😀

my reservations are explained by the fact that some Fds on the forum in France have resold their unit which is very unfair for this machine

I had made for us some small private videos and several telephone interviews to guide the programming work...despite this, discouragement prevailed for these fans and this is the reason for my lucid warning to avoid sadness and disappointment

but all this does not detract from the great qualities of the strymon and I want as proof that those for whom I was able to make the adjustments on their unit in my studio have to this day a real pleasure to play😀

my unit is always on my pedalboard with the Eq2 and when I want to save my Clone Sep/Meazzi I work with joy by plugging it into my Vox

to go along the lines of what you are saying Gary we are going to make a comparison with the My Resistance is low that everyone was able to listen to here with Sep/Meazzi and I hope so 🤞a TVs 3 that they should lend me.
all this requires organization to be done correctly and honestly and I ask you for a little patience because you can imagine that for me too the excitement is very great😀

the subject that Sound remains a magnificent hobby and for my part I work on it with all humility accepting all the criticisms which help me to progress

I understand, however, that everyone seeks and finds their personal approach based on multiple parameters (available time, material resources, technical skills, etc.)
An excellent solution that many practice here and in France is the VSt system which, with a "click and play" formula, has made it possible to obtain great satisfaction by "hearing" a controlled sound universe which allows not only the sharing of patches but also to avoid the difficulty of traditional recording

For my part, being a composer and sound engineer, I need to “understand” to fall asleep peacefully in the evening😀

regards
Bernard from France et Google trad🎸

[darrell12345]

Hi Bernard,
Just out of interest what adjustments did you make on the Strymon volante and would you be able to share this with us.
Regards,
Darrell

[garystrat]

Hi Bernard,

Thank you for your kind reply, I'm certainly aware of Christian's VST system, but I run an Apple Mac system so was unable to try it.

Regards

Gary

[bernardj]

Hi Darrell

to share effectively you need to be able to adjust the level of the heads.

as I have already explained when we act with the pedal the heads only work at full power or at half power

to have something more precise as we hear for example in Wonderfuland you need the right levels at the heads so that for example the pattern plays the right “groove with the right supports”

the best possibility is then to connect the Strymon via MIDI with a Cubase (or other midi software capable of sending Continuous Controllers -CC#-)

the manual tells us which controller numbers to use to give the correct levels to the heads:
PARAMETERS CC#
CC 24 Head 1 Level
25 Head 2 Level
26 Head 3 Level
27 Head 4 Level
RANGE 0-127

the 2 other important parameters to adjust from the pedal are the Recording Level and the “spacing” dosage to find the right “unevenness” in the rhythm of the beats.
these last 2 parameters can be adjusted “by ear”

to conclude,

1) the first stage from the pedal can be reached as shown in some videos on Youtube : 
youtu.be/GabajNsh16k?si=unHuvU-gbgUy02ae

2) to program the pedal at the 2nd stage and be close to my version of rebounds as we hear them in My resistance is low it is imperative to use MIDI with mastery, Strymon reacts perfectly to this language.

If you can manage these operations without difficulty, I could of course pass you a few MIDI containers to adjust the level of the heads.

but I come back to my point with Gary : without mastery of Language Midi disappointment is assured and it is wiser to operate from the pedal which will in any case give its beautiful sound qualities

regards
Bernard from France ....and Google trad😀

[darrell12345]

Hi Bernard,
Thank you very much for your information much appreciated.
Cheers,
Darrell

[petersh]

Hello Pete,



Do you want the same one as Hank?

Sell ​​your wife's car and yours and buy a TVS3   (if they are still made)



Are you technical and do you like to set up a lot each time with the associated headaches? 
Sell ​​your wife's car and buy a Strymon Volante. 


Do you prefer to plug in, play and have fun?

Find a used delay equipped with EFTP from Charlie Hall

Such as: Yamaha Magicstomp - Zoom G3XN - Alesis Q20 - Alesis Quadraverb.

the Blue Nebula from StanlyFX is not a bad choice either.



Christian's VST Host computer program is very good, but it took me some effort to install, I'm not a computer geek.

It's easy, connect my guitar via a 'Focusrite solo' interface on the laptop and

can play directly along with the backing tracks.

I also use a Yamaha Magicstop and the Hall & Collins delay. 


The specialists here among us will probably disagree, but in practice

it turns out that you usually don't use more than 3 or 4 settings.



Good luck, keep playing and have fun,



Greetings, Peter

[bernardj]

Hi Pete

« I do have an MXR carbon Copy which works reasonably well, I'm considering getting a second unit to daisy chain?

Perhaps I should leave it as is? What do you say? »

it's an interesting point of view to make a chain with 2 units
I practiced this for my recording of Sleepwalk on Youtube :

youtu.be/70Sx6xLd-g0?si=Fj9uu0cZIo-rowzE

my Hall & Collins plays the first 3 bounces and a Quadraverb plays the 4th, “grinding” everything. This combination is quite consistent with what happens inside a Meazzi/vox echo and provides this “rosary” characteristic of the Wonderfuland pattern...

regards 
bernard from France and....... Google trad😅

[sandra]

Hi Gary,

I do not have a Mac and have only actually used one a couple of times at a friend's house to install Reaper on it for him, but someone on Christian's forum has said that he is running the program on his Mac using Parallels Desktop.

I think it must be something like a Virtual Machine is for windows, that allows you to run Linux and other versions of windows OSs from within the installed windows OS.

If you have the time, it would be interesting to see if you could install it and tell us what you think about it.
The latest version, V6 is getting excellent reviews, as was the V5 version, but Christian has tweaked it a little more so that it now includes backing tracks for the patches that he has done so far.

[petemarko]

Thankyou to everyone for taking the time to provide so much information, all the information has been super helpful.

I am now going to read it all again, make some notes and research, I will report back.

[petemarko]

Thanks Darrell, I may take you up on that offer. From what I have read so far, the Strymon Volante maybe just what I'm look for.

If I proceed, I will probably sell my MXR carcon Copy, I doubt there would be much to gain by keeing it.

[petemarko]

The videos by Dave Robinson sound very good.

[petemarko]

I play through a Focusrite into my PC and record using StudioOne. My aim is to record most of the Shadows hits for my own amusment and or friends and family.

The link is my first attempt at recording so far, I need to do it, I muffed the into

Theme for Young Lovers

I said all of the above to clarify what I'm trying to do

[petemarko]

Great job on "Sleepwalk " on you tube bernard from France 

[garystrat]

Hi Peter (Peterh),

Well ... I'm afraid you are wrong when you say you have to setup the Strymon Volante every time, it has 8 on-board presets that can be over written with your own preferences and can handle another 300 via MIDI, because many of the settings only require a slight tweak the on board ones will probably cover most numbers for the average user (we are probably close enough to agree on that one!).

The suggestion seems to be that you haven’t actually tried one, so it’s extremely unlikely you will have to suffer with headaches or downsize the car, but you might just miss out on having a certain smile on your face! LOL

Below is a link to a review in Guitar World, you might find the first paragraph under “Performance” interesting:

www.guitarworld.com/gear/review-strymons-volante-conjures-a-variety-of-echoes-from-well-worn-to-modern-and-everything-in-between

Regards

Gary

[darrell12345]

Hi Pete,
Well played on theme for young lovers.
You won't regret buying the Strymon volante if you decide to get one.
Cheers Darrell

[garystrat]

Hi Sandra,

You are correct, Parallels software now allows Mac users to setup and run virtual machines without re-booting, it also requires that you download and install Windows (they currently state version 11 in the Mac store). Unfortunately, this is not software that I have any use for and by its very nature probably requires low level access to the OS.

Therefore, it’s certainly not something I would install on this type of experimental basis, so I'm afraid on this occasion I will have to decline.

Best regards

Gary

[petemarko]

Thanks Darrell

[darrell12345]

Hi Pete,
Here is wonderful land using the Strymon volante.
Cheers Darrell
Listen to wonderfull land.mp3 by darrell12345 on #SoundCloud
on.soundcloud.com/kgWtZ

[sandra]

As you already have a Focusrite and a windows PC and DAW then you may as well try Christian's VST Host program Pete.

It will cost you nothing extra, other than a little time, and it will probably be quicker and easier to start using to get the sounds that you want than from any hardware setup.

[garystrat]

Hi Pete

I listened to TFYL and your playing is fine and you have a pretty good DAW, if you keep the same setup it doesn't matter if you muff the intro because the DAW is a tool where you can record just the intro part again with doing the whole number!

I've recorded quite a few players and they often find recording introduces more pressure and parts do get fluffed, if the mistake happens in the middle of the recording look for a tool called "auto punch", what happens is you mark up a section of the recording and active this, just before you get to that point start playing again with same setup and it will replace the recording in the marked up section only:

Here is a video that demonstrates this in Studio One:

support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210041883-Episode-39-Auto-Punch

If I may make a suggestion, it may be worth trying a low cut between 90 and 150 Hz and a further high cut about 10kHz, this removes frequencies at either end of the spectrum, it helps with any muddiness in the lows (bass) and removes some of the unwanted noise/hiss from the highs (treble), your Daw probably has an EQ plugin and this is on the guitar track only!

Best regards

Gary

[petemarko]

Hi Gary, thank you for providing all that information, I have been away from the daw for some time doing other things. I am now relearning the DAW, and setting up all the Shadows songs I hope to record. 

Yes, I know about "auto punch' but that was after I recorded "Theme for Young Lovers" which was some time ago. It has occured to me about recording the intro again and combining it with the finished track? 

BTW I am using UB Hank as backing tracks.


"If I may make a suggestion, it may be worth trying a low cut between 90 and 150 Hz and a further high cut about 10kHz, this removes frequencies at either end of the spectrum, it helps with any muddiness in the lows (bass) and removes some of the unwanted noise/hiss from the highs (treble), your Daw probably has an EQ plugin and this is on the guitar track only!"

Thanks for the tip above, I have seen lots of tips on Youtube and I remember seeing someone demonstrating the technique above.

I have a lot to learn, so all one day at a time

[garystrat]

Hi Pete,

Trying to cut in a new recorded parts later can be a bit tricky in matching the original settings so that the patched in sections blend convincingly.

Regarding the high and low cuts the idea is to keep all the instrument frequencies within the instruments normal range as a starting point, below is a link that has an instrument frequency chart that will give you the general idea:.

www.audio-issues.com/music-mixing/all-the-eq-information-youll-ever-need/

Plugins and IR's can also often have frequencies outside the range of the hardware, so I tend to look up the hardware specifications and limit them to that and find it does make a difference to perceived authenticity!

Best regards

Gary

[petemarko]

Hi again Gary,

Thanks for the info, I think I may be burning the midnight oil for some time

Its very interesting, I'm looking forward to the challenge of understanding the principles involved and making good use of the information

[bikesforme16]

Hi Gary very interested in getting the Strymon at moment I use the Yamaha magic stomp with Charlies patches but it's getting on so looking for something present.
Is there a list of settings anywhere for the shadows songs with the Strymon. Many thanks