Pickups used in Hank's Strat #34346

[Johan]

Greetings,

A long shot, but who knows, perhaps someone can help.

After some research into building and winding single-coil pickups, I am, sort of getting a feel for this art. That urged a quest for collecting as much detail as possible about the pickups used in Hank's first Strat, i.e., serial number, 34346. I believe the guitar was a 1959 model, however the pickups might possibly have been manufactured earlier? There are many blanks to be filled in my quest,

===This is what I have at the moment: ===

From a pickup restore/manufacturer as taken from pickups from this period:

1.
1958: DCR=6.20K, 8350 winds of 0.0028" Formwar (#42), handwound.
1959: DCR=5.95K, 7925 winds of 0.0030 Formwar (#42), handwound.

2. It is believed that Alnico 5 magnets were used, the larger 0.197" diameter, sand cast type.

3. Apparently, magnet stagger pattern (i.e., different magnet heights) are also a bit different than whats used in modern pickups.

4. For the period, all pickups had the same magnetic orientation, i.e., NORTH up, and the same winding direction. They did not use RWRP (reverse wind, reverse polarity) at the time.

Q1. I'm still looking for the exact magnet lengths used in the 58/59 pickups.

Q2 Since Fender used A2, A3, and A5 magnets for various guitars in the late 50's,, is it a fact that #34346 used all A5 rods in its pickups?

It has been suggested to me to get a set of period-correct Fender Custom Shop pickups, however, if one look carefully, these modern recreations from Fender are not quite the same as different materials and production methods are used.

Does all this really matter or make a difference? I'm not quite sure, but will find out.

Any further details, corrections, additions, or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Regards.

Johan.

[rogercook]

Hi Johan

I don't know if you may already have seen this from the StewMac site

www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Supplies:_Wire,_cables/Pickup_Coil_Wire.html?tab=Instructions#details

Roger

[Johan]

Hi Roger,

Thanks much for the info. Actually, my first Strat pickup builds were from those Stewmac kits. They are nice and come with a set of staggered magnets but unfortunately, those represent the more generic, later style, thinner diameter magnets, also not quite the true 50's stagger pattern. I suspect I'll have to look for some Alnico rod stock to cut and grind the magnets to spec.

Seems like the sum total of a bunch of little details makes up for the difference.

Regards.

Johan.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Johan,
The magnet tops were also bevelled, probably done by hand. Apparently bevelling focuses the pickup pattern more so than unbevelled ones.
According to "The Fender Stratocaster" by A. R. Duchossoir the original magnets were ca. .192" diameter, unequal length, bass E .684", A .687", D .717", G.718", B .636", treble E .657".
Around 1961 the G magnet was shortened to .712". In late 1974 flush poles were used at .656", and a smaller diameter of .187".
Winding turns were ranging from about 8000 up to 8700 on the early pickups. The resistance was given a + or - 20% tolerance.
I read that Fender Strat pickups were always alnico 5, but that alnico 5 then was different to alnico 5 today, I don't know why that is so, or how these numbers relate to the magnet specification.
I think the earliest Strat pickups were north, then for some reason soon changed to south, possibly some time before 1958/9.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

HI JOHAN ,,, I myself cannot help on this issue ,only to direct you to ,,JOHN in wagga-wagga australia,
In the for sale section of this site is his post on the p/up's he build's & I have a set & they are great!!
JCAUDIO is his site name & I have spoken on the phone to him [AGREAT-FREINDLY-GUY] & A very learnered builder ,HE magnitizers his own alnico rod & has a wealth of information ,He also hand wind's etc,, Please ''PM- him'' from this site ,He also has a web-site ..to brouse ..
I am sure john will help you with your queries...

THE only concrete way to obtain the info you reguire would be to have a dismantled p/up of that era???[not easy to find] ...

I remember many year's ago when ''seymore-duncan'' started I read a write-up from him & he seemed to know a great deal about the very early fender's p/up's magnet diam etc etc ,but the detail's elude-me now ,sorry..!!!!
We must also remember they were strung with very-heavy-guage ''fender-string's'' 14 to 56 etc.. 10ozs steel block's in the trem etc etc???.
WHEN first buiding an electric guitar we here in OZ had little choice of string's ,fender,black-diamond ,is about all & the fender's were very heavy guage as above & I am 70 y/old & was buying string/s at 17-18-y/old!!!
CHEERS johan & good luck on your QUEST for the info .................barry..

[Johan]

Hi Charlie,

Thanks for filling in missing details, its slowly coming together.

I assume the particular staggering used on vintage Strats matched their neck radius, which I think was a little rounder than later models, also, to balance output from heavier-gauge strings, particularly ones with a wound G.

Just for comparison, the Stewmac magnets are 0.187" diameter and staggered as follows: Bass E 0.671", A 0.671", D 0.710", G 0.710, B 0.650", E 0.671". The differences are small, but its all part of those little details that may add up in the end.

Right, I have read about the differences in current A5 material out there. Apparently, one need to look for old stock made in the USA as that probably was what Fender used. The differences in A5 composition shows up when magnetizing pickups. I magnetize my own pickups and use a magnetometer to check magnetic fields of the finished pickups, just to make sure the magnets are properly polarized and of proper strength to ensure things come out in good balance; tone and output-wise.

Barry --- That would be great to have a real 59 pickup to work off, but probably way out of reach of my R&D budget. Do you have one we can have a look at?

Thanks much for the help.

Regards.

Johan.

[rogercook]

Very interesting. As Johan says it seems the small variations all add up. There are usually some 5mm Alnico magnets listed on the well known auction site UK. I need to have a careful look at the specs

Roger

[asimmd]

A very interesting thread and one which has raised a question in my mind.

The Oasis £5000 Strat has been much lourded over in the past few weeks,and much has been made of it's tone.

The guitar has pickups supposedly wound by the legendary Abigail Ybarra specially for this guitar,and from sound file examples of the guitar,it is not a million miles away from from the original Hank Sound.

My question is,if the pickups made for this guitar sound the way they do,what is so different about their construction,and why can't this construction method be used on pickups for other Fender Guitars?

I am thinking specifically about my own Custom Shop NOS56 which has Fat 50's.
I can't help wondering how it would sound with a set of Ybarra's.

Alan

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Alan,
I didn't know the 56 came with Fat 50s. They are my favourite pickups of all the Strat pickups I have purchased.
Regards,
Charlie

[asimmd]

Hi Charlie

I think it was scouserjoe who told me,I had removed the original pickups and replaced them with Bareknuckle Apaches then posed a question about Ybarra Pickups.

I soon put them back and now I am a very happy bunny,it sounds great again,but I still wonder about the Ybarra's.

Alan

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Alan,
Can you describe the difference in sound that came from the Bareknuckle Apaches? This is interesting because many people have said how good they sound. I haven't heard any myself as far as I know.
Regards,
Charlie

[asimmd]

Charlie,don't get me wrong,the Bareknuckle Apache's are excellent and I love them.

I think the main difference is that the Fender's have a more pronounced low end bite,whereas the Bareknuckles are slightly smoother.

Dig into the Fender's in the middle position,and you get what you pay for,a superb early Hank sound.
I used them through the Tonelab on the AC30 Top Boost model.

I had to play around with the tone controls but it was obvious the sound was there.

Alan

[solidlg]

Morning all,

I think I mentioned on a previous thread that the original Strat was used to create the latest beast for 5 grand, and I was told that the pickups were in fact 54's, which were somewhat warmer than the 57/62's, and as I am not a technically capable individual perhaps those who contributed to that last thread ( short term memory fading ) could chip in a bit.

Steve

[martyn]

Just to pop my nose in with a quick query to Charlie: you've mentioned before how you like the Fat 50s so is it possible to put into words how these differ from the CS54s and 57/62s - what were they designed to do that would make you change to these and would I notice a major difference with any of them compared to my standard US ones on my 2007 mex strat?

Cheers,
Martyn

[knockoutrock]

Hi !

Maybe this could be useful:
www.provide.net/~cfh/pickups.html

Regards Leif

[Johan]

Hi Leif,

Thanks for the helpful reference. I keep a printed copy in my files.

Interesting comments about different pickups. Just from a purely technical perspective, Hunter's book ("The Guitar Pickup Handbook"), page 93 gives an brief overview of some Fender CS features, in short:

--Fat 50's captures the vintage Strat tone. Being wound a bit hotter, tempers down some of the overly bright highs. Typical bridge would be around 6.2K.
--CS '54 is similar but has greater disparity between bridge & neck/middle. Typically, bridge 6.4K with 5.9K neck/middle.
--CS '69 are wound weaker, like 5.8K on all positions. These were used a lot during the Hendrix era and often wound by Abigail Ybarra who worked for Fender since the late '50s.

Regards.

Johan.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Alan,
Thanks for letting me know about the Bareknuckles sound.
Hi Martyn,
It was in fact already answered by Johan, I had heard about other players using them and liking them and I liked the idea of retaining the vintage sound but with a little more fatness. The middle pickup sounds great for the quack tones when digging in.
Regards,
Charlie