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Post by tony on Oct 31, 2009 12:00:09 GMT
Hi all..
I am new to the site and just starting out in the world of guitar playing.... which is why I am so glad I have found this site... as you guys have all the knowledge I am looking for... I have read a lot of the threads and listened to some of the sound files... which are awesome... and in time I hope I will be half as good as some of you guys... but for now... I need some help .... I don't understand how to get the sound that you guys have... I have been looking at several different amps... and driving the local music shop guys mad... so the question is... which amp on a limited budget should I be looking at... and what settings should I be using to get that bell like tone, also how do I get that echo effect... I know this sounds thick... but if someone could explain that would be great ... and if anyone lives near Leicester and fancies giving some lessons that would be even better... thanks in anticipation... Tony
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Post by rjdupe on Oct 31, 2009 12:31:39 GMT
Hi Tony, I am relatively new to this site as well. I can give you a little information. The amp and guitar are of course important and many people like valve amps which are of course more expensive. The main point to get that 'sound' you need authentic echo which is difficult to achieve off the shelf with the units out there. However the secret is to purchase Charlie's patches which are available for a number of echo units. Ones currently on the market like the zoom G2 are good. A lot of the members here use units like Quadraverbs which are no longer made but can be purchased secondhand. A quick point of warning here, many of the units offered with the echos are in fact pirate copies of Charlie's original work. If you go down this route you need to check out the serial number with Charlie before you buy. You can of course buy a Zoom G2 and programme the patches into the unit. ( Charlie would provide all the information on this). You don't want to get an illegal copy as you will find it difficult to get back up, Back now to amps I bought a Vox AC 30 ( valves) which went wrong after 6 months as is still being repaired. I then bought my self a little Fender 25R which is good for practice and only cost about £80-90. Everyone will offer different advice about amps but the best thing is to go to a large shop and try them. I don't know where you live so I can't advise on the best shops. I live in Surrey and Andertons is a huge shop where you can try before you buy. I initially fell into the trap and bought off the internet, this is fine until something goes wrong and I had to send the first amp I bought this way back as it was useless and was a lot of hastle. With respect to guitars if you want that classical sound, a Stat will usually provide this there are some excellent Vibe 50's models out there for about £250 without going the whole hog and buying a top of the range Strat. Again it is best if you try several before youy make a decision. Anyhow I have rambled on long enough, but Charlie will help you with the echo effects which I personally believe is one of the most important aspects of achieving the classic 'old sound,
Regards,
Robert
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Post by Roger... on Oct 31, 2009 12:44:42 GMT
Hi Tony and welcome.
I am relatively new to the site myself, but I will try and answer your questions.
If it is The Shadows music that you want to play, this is the place to ask. There are very knowledgeable people on here that are more than happy to help you.
I am very much on a budget, so here is my kit:-
1979 Fender Stratocaster Roland Cube 30X amplifier Yamaha MagicStomp Charlie's patches UB Hank Backing Tracks iPod
Guitar - Any Strat or decent copy will do (or other guitar of choice).
Amplifier - Mine was under £200 and is really good for home use.
MagicStomp - Effects Unit for echo sounds/tones etc (not now manufactured, available from the well known auction site, approx £100).
Charlie's patches - pre-programmed echo software programmed into MagicStomp.
Backing Tracks - (purchased) Shadows backing tracks. I converted mine into mp3 format and put them in my iPod. I then play my iPod into my amp (aux in) and the play the 'lead' over the top of it.
iPod - for playing backing tracks.
If you have more to spend then the world is your lobster (as they say), such as a Vox AC30, Quadraverb effects unit etc.
Hope some of this helps.
Best regards Roger
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Post by tony on Oct 31, 2009 12:49:05 GMT
Hi Rob...
Thanks for that... I was thinking about buying off the internet... but I never thought about back up etc... so sound advice... I have looked at the AC 30's but again there seems to be loads of variations... what I don't want to do is spend a load of money and buy the wrong stuff... I have been looking at the AC15H1TV which is all valve and has two different inputs one has tone boost which seems to give it the shrill like treble... but like you rightly say it still misses something... it must be the echo that makes all the differnce...
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Post by tony on Oct 31, 2009 12:55:37 GMT
Hi Roger
Yes it is the shadows sound I am after... I have splashed out and bought a second hand Strat... its fitted with Kinman VHMS pick ups ... and the bridge has has been altered by VML which is I believe the same as Hanks... it sounded great when the guy I bought it off played it... not quite as good when I play it... but with practice and a lot of help ... I am forever hopeful... but its the amplifier and settings that I just don't understand... so thanks for the reply..
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Post by tonybiker on Oct 31, 2009 12:56:20 GMT
Hi Tony.
Robert has given you some good tips. You do not have to spend a fortune on gear. Many fall into the trap with buying anything and everything that Hank Marvin used or uses. A listen to the tracks on here defeats that method when you see they are played on a range of guitars from Squires to Custom Shop strats, and with delay/echo from Zoom to the mighty expensive TVS. Take it from me, what you buy today you will change next week! You can get set up for £300. A good used Squire with a £40 set up can play better than a £900 USA strat out of the shop. If your new to playing and still finding your way, then it may be the way to go, better to wear a Squire out while doing so plus a practice guitar is always a handy thing to have. I had until recently a Zoom 508 which was excellent. You will find many opinions.
In the 1990's, the UB Hank Club started. No internet those days! One big advantage was the 'get togethers' and that gave the chance to meet others plus see, hear and play all the gear what members brought. I remember arriving at the Holiday Inn Ellesmere Port armed with an autograph strat and a Matchless DC30. We plugged into everything that was there, Vox and Fender amps, Alesis, Atlantis, tape echos etc etc. Did any of the 40 that attaned sound like the man or that sound? Nope. Close but not close enough.
Now with a PC and software the guys on here are about as close as you can be. They never fail to amaze me how well they play and sound, and they aint spend anywhere near the £6000 I did in the 90's on just a strat and an amp.
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Post by rjdupe on Oct 31, 2009 13:14:11 GMT
Hi again, I been reading all the replies and they all offer good advice. One quick point. I tried a Vox AC 15 and it did sound good, I think you will find that as soon as Charlie's echo effects are added to most amps the sound is transformed. In fact although it easy to get carried away with tons of treble however in a lot of the Shad's numbers the treble although distinctive and can be heard above the backing ,it is also mellow in a strange sort of way. As Tony (tonybiker) says you can pay a fortune but don't have to, but there is the old saying 'it is the singer not the song'. I look forward to seeing how you get on.
Regards, Robert
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Post by grip on Oct 31, 2009 13:22:42 GMT
Hi Tony, Welcome to the Forum. You have been given some good advice, and I agree with tonybiker that you really don't need to spend a fortune to get nearer to "the sound" thand you ever have been before. Charlie has written these echo/reverb programs for a number of different effects pedals, they are listed here, the devices Charlie has the programs for and prices are listed here: charliehall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1110Charlie will give you full support on whatever you purchase from him, unlike one of the "rogue" traders on the well known auction site. Kind regadrs grip
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Post by tony on Oct 31, 2009 13:52:45 GMT
Thanks for all the replies....
I agree... it is the singer and not the song... and my playing ... shall I say... leaves room for improvement... but I am hopefull... one thing that you all mention is Charlies echo programes .. so I think that is a good starting point... before I get too carried away... which would be all too easy... and I think any thoughts of buying from the well known auction site have definately been forgotten...
Thanks guys
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Post by Charlie Hall on Oct 31, 2009 21:35:33 GMT
Hi Tony, All the basic advice has been given. I can add to that and say when choosing an amp don't expect it to sound like Hank unless you have the right sort of echo with it, you wouldn't believe how much difference it can make until you hear it, it is almost like adding another multi-dimensional layer on top, which in effect is what it is. Think of the old sounds that Strats got on the early rock and roll recordings, like Buddy Holly and others. Vintage bite and brightness without sounding too trebly. Get somewhere near that with a Strat and a half decent sounding amp (it doesn't have to be expensive), and the right sort of echo added to that will get you near to the sound(s). As controls vary from amp to amp it is best to ask when we know what amp you are using. Each brand of amp tends to have its own sound, it can be difficult to make one type sound like another, though in some cases there is some sort of overlap. You don't need a high powered amp for home use or learning, in fact some high powered amps don't sound as good as the equivalent lower powered ones. Regards, Charlie
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