Applying Chords to a Melody

[GAJ52]

Hi

Can anyone offer me some hints and tips on adding chords to a melody. This is one of my biggest stumbling blocks with music, for some reason its like trying to look through a brick wall, I just need some help in moving a few of the bricks.

Charlie was kind enough to help me out with some chords yesterday and he achieved in 5 mins something that took me all weekend, and I still failed.

I am aware you need to find out the key of the song and mainly use the chords in that key, sounds simple but I still have problems applying suitable chords.

Many thanks

Glen

[grip]

Hi Glen,

I'm not really sure what you mean "applying Chords to a Melody", do you mean adding rhythm guitar, or incorporating chords as part of the lead melody line?

Kind regards,


grip

[colljaw]

Hi Glen, all you do is type the title of the song and add chords after the title into google and youi will get links to sites that provide the chords. Mind you they are not always correct. If it is chords to Shadows you are after, I have them and if you message me and leave your email address I will send them to you. Other than that, you just use your ears and knowledge of chords to work out the sequence. This can be time consuming, especially if you are not used to doing it. I hope this has been of some help?

Regards, Jim

[GAJ52]

Hi Grip

Thanks, your right I didn't make that very clear.

Its applying a rhythm guitar to a single line melody, what chords does the rhythm guitarist play, its like you would see in a lead sheet. I can play a melody fairly easily on guitar or keyboard but when it comes to finding chords to go with that melody I'm rubbish.

Glen

[GAJ52]

Hi Jim

I did what you said with the song in question over the weekend and it came up with various chord sequences for the same tune. What I'm trying to do with this post is learn from the very talented members of this forum to allow myself to work out chords without relying on others or sheet music. My dream is to be able to compose my own music not just copy other peoples.

Cheers

Glen

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Glen,
Working out chords to an existing tune or song is definitely something you have to have an ear for. In my case, I think I must have been born with it as I never really had much trouble picking up the sounds that made up the notes of the correct chords that I could hear. I can even think back as far as when I was very young, before I ever played, and remember hearing a tune called Carousel Waltz that I haven't heard since then and I could even work out the chords for that piece now, although I didn't then as I hadn't learned to play any instrument.
I started out playing lead guitar with my brother playing rhythm guitar. When I was working out the chords for a tune for one song, he asked me what's the chord for that note. I told him you can't work out what the chord is for a single note!
I think it will be hard work unless you have an ear for it. You might want to practise learning the chords to some of the easier tunes you already play. I think that will be the best way to start learning.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

Hi Glen,
Play all the chords in the 'C' major scale one at a timewhich are;
C...Dminor...Eminor...F...G...Aminor....Bdiminished(but you can use G7)....back to C.
This will take you back to your school days of Doe.. RE... Me.. Far.. So...La...Ti...Doe.
Now fit Doe to C, Re to Dmin, Me to Emin etc etc up the scale. This inspired Rogers and Hammerstein's song of Doe Re Me in the Sound of Music.
Once you know all the chords of this scale start fitting your own melody to them just like Rogers and H but jumble the chords up to accomodate the notes you are using.
This is a basic starting point. If you don't know the essence of a scale abadon the idea till you do.
Regards Tony

[grip]

Hi Glen,

One of the things to look for is in the groups of notes you are playing in the lead line, you will find most lead lines are built up around chord shapes. If you take three or four note sequences and just try to see which chord they fit.

Kind regards,


grip

[olemuso]

I found that in the early days my view of chords was somewhat simplistic, The major chords, a few minors and a handful of sevenths, and they seemed to fit almost every tune I learned.
But later, as my influnces widened and my taste matured I began to realise there was much more to it.
I never had a lesson but did a lot of self study. This, followed by being thrown in the deep end as part of a backing trio stood me in good stead, and I think I now have a pretty good ear for notes, phrases, chords and the like.
Just keep practising and learning. You`ll find something new almost every day.
The absolute fastest way to learn is to work with other musicians, preferably ones who are more advanced than yourself - makes you really sit up! ;D

[GAJ52]

Gentlemen

Many thanks for your comments on this subject.

I think one of my biggest faults is laziness, I've always relied on sheet music or books to play either the lead or rhythm. Also I have never played with other musicians so I have not had the chance to learn from others - this is where this forum is so great, at least I can ask competent musicians their advice.

I do have all the UB Hank tabs, so I will have a look at that, taking on board all what I have learnt from this post, and try to work out why certain chords have been used in the music. Incidentally is the Diminished chord of the scale ever used, this seems to be a bit of an odd ball ?

Thanks again, Glen

[Deleted]

The diminished chord is used extensively in classical music and by neo-classical metal guitar players but otherwise not very often and hardly ever in Shadows music.
Tony

[olemuso]

Beatles - "Till There was You", second chord is a diminished.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Glen,
Diminished and augmented chords have a feature not shared by any other chord, they split the octave into equal intervals, diminished into minor 3rd steps (one and a half tones) and augmented into 3rd steps (two tones). Both have been used in pop songs. Because of these intervals, the chord shapes of both can also be repeated at the same intervals on the fretboard (diminished every 3 frets and augmented every 4 frets) and they can also be called the name of any note in the chord, although in an actual piece the name given would bear some relationship with either the key or other chords around it.
Hendrix did use another strange interval although I don't know of a name for it, he split the octave into two equal intervals with just the low octave note, a flattened fifth, and the higher octave note. This is heard on the intro to Purple Haze. A bit of genius on his part I think. To duplicate this sound as an experiment, place your fingers on the bass E string on the 7th fret, then the A string on the next higher (8th) fret, then the D string on yet the next higher (9th) fret (the first and last give the octave notes). You will see that the intervals are equal. Of the 3 notes, play the lower two notes, then the higher two notes (obviously playing the middle one every time), then the lower two again, and so on. This is how Purple Haze intro was played, but distortion was used as well for that sound, not important to illustrate the notes used. So simple when you know how it was done.
All other chords can be simplified as being either major (1 -3 - 5) or minor (1 - flattened 3 - 5), with extra notes added to make up the more complicated chords. The extra notes can be almost any relative note(s) to the root note. Working out what the root note actually is can be a bit confusing at times, but the root note is always the note the chord is named by (except perhaps for the chords with equal intervals as described above). Chords used in jazz have complicated names but can often actually be broken down into 2 simple chords played simultaneously.
Regards,
Charlie

[GAJ52]

Charlie,

Thanks for the very detailed answer, I appreciate your time. This has now given me a big kick up the backside to brush up on my chord theory before asking any more stupid questions.

Glen

[olemuso]

Nov 24, 2009 10:01:15 GMT GAJ52 said:

Charlie,

Thanks for the very detailed answer, I appreciate your time. This has now given me a big kick up the backside to brush up on my chord theory before asking any more stupid questions.

Glen

A question is only stupid if you already know the answer. Asking is one of the only ways to learn. Keep it up Glen

[zager]

hi Glen. I have a pdf file of Tony Beltran, Chord Melody Guitar An Organised Approach. Its an excellent article even for intermediate players. Its based around the caged system. If you wish. I can sent it to your email address. regards tony

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Glen,
When naming the numbers of notes in a chord, a major chord already assumes that it contains notes 1 (root) 3 (major third) and 5 (fifth), and a minor chord already assumes that it contains notes 1 (root) flattened 3 (minor third) and 5 (fifth). Note 8 is the higher octave of note 1.
A 7th chord adds a dominant 7th, which is actually a flattened note 7 in the major scale. If a seventh is included, then any note number in a chord that is higher than seven assumes that that chord already includes a 7th, and you just subtract 7 from the higher number to find the note in the scale of 1 to 8.
A major 7th adds a real 7th note to the major chord. You are unlikely to find a major seventh note with a number higher than this, at least if you do, it is a bit beyond what I know about.
A minor seventh is a minor chord that adds a dominant 7th.
Take an example A13th. This is an A7 with a 6th added to it.
The actual octave that the notes are taken from doesn't matter. For example a major chord could have a fifth from a lower octave, a one from the next higher octave and a 3 from that same higher octave. It is the same as the simple major except that the 5th is an octave lower.
If you play a keyboard, the major scale is just the 8 white notes in the key of C. The relative spacing is always the same on a keyboard but any other key has to include black notes to get that spacing.
The interval between 1 and 2 is a whole tone, 2 and 3 a whole tone, 3 and 4 a semitone, 4 and 5 a whole tone, 5 and 6 a whole tone, 6 and 7 a whole tone, 7 and 8 a semitone.
So we have 3 and 4, and 7 and 8 that have semitone intervals. Now pick any note on the keyboard except a C and call it 1. See if you can play the notes from 1 to 8 from that starting note. If you follow the simple rule above, you will hear a major scale.
Of course, we don't worry about white and black notes on a guitar but we still need to refer to the keyboard notes to understand them better.
Another fact that will help to understand more is a relative minor. the Chord A minor is the relative minor chord to a C chord. If you start from an A note on the keyboard and play all the white notes up to the next A note an octave higher, you will have just played a minor scale. Then work out what the intervals of those notes actually are. Once you have gone through all of the above, you should find certain things start falling into place in your mind.
Regards,
Charlie

[zager]

hi Glen. Have emailed the above pdf file. regards tony

[mj46]

Hi
Well here's my twopennyworth!
If you are at the stage when you can't figure anything out then I would suggest you don't complicate life. The 3 major chords of a key and a couple of minors will suffice. The more you try it, the better your 'ear' will become. Listen to the classic rock n roll songs of Chuck Berry or Status Quo for an afternoon and you'll soon learn to find the key and then the other two chords in sequence. Then this will form a basis for hearing and writing similar tunes.

For listening and composing the following method will give you the start- do note this works in every key although I only refer to a couple:

Play the song on your CD etc. Have a list of chords and notes in the major keys in front of you
Find which key the song is in by picking the low 'e' string from open through to the 12th and whichever fret sound in harmony is either the root key or the name of one of the other 2 main chords in the tune. (e.g. if it sounds best on the 3rd fret then the song is likely to be in G. Check this by playing the G chord at the start of verses and then C and D7 at the chord changes. If that doesn't sound right then the key might be C or D. Just play the 'blues' or 'rock' sequence and the right key will jump out at you.
Finding the key is crucial and if you think you have the key then play each of the notes in the key and if one sounds wrong then try again with a different key. For instance if you don't have a Bflat than you are not in F, Bflat or Eflat.

Once you have the Key (in this case 'G') then you know that C and D7 are in there. Bm, Am and Em are the only minors that might be in there. Rock songs tend not to use minors too much because of their 'sad' quality. So for rock n roll classics and blue-based songs you can almost ignore the minors to begin .

Of course the Shadows-style instrumentals (and particularly their instrumental versions of famous songs) do feature minors a lot but the chords are available on the net and thru this forum so you can check (and learn from) your attempts.

Although in theory you need more than one note to know what chord you should play, in practice if the melody happens to have the note 'G in an important place then the chord is likely to be one that features a G- i.e. C, G or Em. Similarly if the note C is important in the melody then the chord is likely to be C, F or Am (possibly Dm). If C and A are part of the sequence then it's either Am, F or Dm because those two notes are in all those chords.
C is only one note different than Am so if you feel that C sounds wrong then try Am

Finally, when you are composing you will find that you can use a number of alternatives. As suggested above, if you have a C in your song then if it is at the beginning and end you are in the key of C and that is the chord to use. Later in the song it may be part of Am or F. Actually you could use either of those chords -they simply give you a different feel. When writing in the Key of C, Am likely to be full of pathos and nostalgia whilst F sounds to me like a 'cheeky' mate willing and able to run the middle bit of the relay between C and G7. Similarly Em is the dark side of G!

Hoe this helps - I tried to keep it simple but reading it back it sounds just as complex as everyone else's posts - sorry!

Oh- just a final point. Sheet music is often written in a different key to recorded version so don't get mad if the key of the sheet music differs from the key you think the song is in. Just transpose the chords in the written music to your version and see how it feels.
Mike

[GAJ52]

Gentlemen

Thanks once again for your help on this subject.

Having read your answers I am finally able to apply basic chords within the key to a melody, something in the past which has just been a mystery. More complex chords hopefully will come later as I gain more experience in writing my own music, but from what I have learnt above I feel much more confident.

Thank you

Glen