Recording advice

[GAJ52]

When I try recording with a BT (normally UB Hank) to a computer sequencer, in my case Cubase Studio 5, but could be any sequencer, the lead sound doesn't appear to sit properly within the mix but appears separate as if its two separate recordings playing - which technically it is.

Over at World Wide Shadows Music, Wim has created an tutorial on Cubase where he says the placement of the sound can be accomplished by using a stereo delay effect with the lead and using reverb to place the sound forwards or backwards in the mix.

Just wondering if anyone has any advice on this subject i.e. VST's etc. to produce a proper mix.

BTW I'm using proper studio monitors not computer speakers.

Glen

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Glen,
I don't quite understand what is happening with your set up. I use Sonar 2 and usually record the backing track onto a stereo track first. To do this I have to use both channels of my stereo soundcard line input and set up for a stereo track. Unless you have a mixer, I think you would have to do the same.
When you play back the recorded backing track, you should then be able to set up a mono track to record from either the left or right line input and record your new part, I always use the left so I don't get confused to much. With a mono recorded track it should sit in the centre of the mix when played back simultaneously with the recorded stereo backing track. To shift it from the centre, the pan control can be used. A pan control should be set to centre when playing a stereo track, provided it was correctly balanced from left to right.
It may be that signals are handled differently in Cubase, so perhaps it might be better for someone who knows that program to answer.
Regards,
Charlie

[garystrat]

Hi Glen

You should be able to "pan" the stereo positioning of the guitar to get a favourable placement, but I tend to get a far more pleasing sense of ambience and integration by feeding the guitar through a processor with a stereo output and recording the guitar track in stereo.

Gary

[GAJ52]

Charlie

I don't think I explained the problem properly, sorry about that. Within the sequencer the backing track (track 1) is a stereo track and plays with a normal stereo output. The lead I record into track 2 is a mono input, so I can freely move the sound left or right with pan, but this does not seem to blend the lead part into the BT. I read somewhere, I think on the World Wide Shadows site that Abbey Road Studios developed a technique where they copied John Lennons voice to another track and panned the two tracks both left and right with one track delayed by about 10ms. Apparently this can be done these days using a stereo delay VST to blend the lead into the BT mix. I was just wondering if anyone uses this technique to create their sound files and could give us a few tips.

Hi Gary

Using a stereo output is a good idea . I play my guitar through a Q2 via the 'effect' send and return of a Tonelab LE, the tonelab has stereo outputs. I think I will try that and see if I can improve the mix

Regards, Glen

[garystrat]

Hi Glen

If you want to copy the Abbey Road effect, why not just copy your existing guitar track to a second track and pan each accordingly?

You could also introduce a slight delay on the second track if you wished to experiment, the good thing about all this is that it is non-destructive, so if you don't like it you can always return to the original.

Gary

[graeme]

Nov 24, 2009 18:29:29 GMT garystrat said:

If you want to copy the Abbey Road effect, why not just copy your existing guitar track to a second track and pan each accordingly?

You could also introduce a slight delay on the second track if you wished to experiment....

Without the delay, there will be no effect. Simply copying and panning will just produce a louder mono track .

As for getting the guitar track to sit in the mix, I'm afraid there's no simple answer to this as each track is unique.

It's a combination of level, EQ and possibly FX. You'll have to experiment with all three to gain some experience in mixing. Nothing beats hands-on practice and experiment - we all had to start somewhere.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Glen,
You need to have a mono track set up to record a simple guitar part. Start with this and then experiment with stereo later. The input can be from the left or right channel but you should have to select whichever it is you are recording from when a mono track is set up for recording. The resulting recording should be mono and panned centre. The panning is unlikely to work whilst recording, you can use the panning control afterwards.
A delay in one side of a stereo track should be around at least 20ms or you will get some panning effects that you don't necessarily want.
You can make a delayed stereo track in a number of ways. Going further from the above, copy the recorded mono track to a new track and add a delay to it. Pan the original to the left and the new track to the right. This pair of mono tracks could then be mixed down to a stereo track and then other stereo effects applied to that new stereo track.
Regards,
Charlie

[olemuso]

I`m pretty sure that all my uploaded files have been recorded with the guitar parts in mono - including echo/reverb.

[martyn]

I also record the main guitar part in stereo but not by involving separate tracks. In Cubase, when I add a track I allocate it to stereo, rather than mono, to start with. It sits naturally in the middle but has quite subtle ambience that spreads outwards to each side - not by much but just enough to remove the sterility of a mono track parked in the middle.
If I don't feel it's stereo enough, so to speak, the MDA MultibandEQ vst plugin allows me to stretch the stereo signal so that more after-resonance becomes evident, if that makes sense.

Regards,
Martyn

[graeme]

Nov 25, 2009 16:33:08 GMT martyn said:

I also record the main guitar part in stereo but not by involving separate tracks. In Cubase, when I add a track I allocate it to stereo, rather than mono, to start with. It sits naturally in the middle but has quite subtle ambience that spreads outwards to each side - not by much but just enough to remove the sterility of a mono track parked in the middle.

Quite honestly, I think you are kidding yourself.

Recording this way is merely producing two tracks (left and right) which are identical. Yes, it will sit in the middle of the sound stage - for that very reason - but there is no difference between that and a mono track panned to the centre. If you are really hearing any sort of "subtle ambience" then there has to be some additional processing going on.

Nov 25, 2009 16:33:08 GMT martyn said:

If I don't feel it's stereo enough, so to speak, the MDA MultibandEQ vst plugin allows me to stretch the stereo signal so that more after-resonance becomes evident, if that makes sense.

Not to me,, it didn't . I'm not particularly familiar with MDA stuff, but I don't see how a multiband EQ can affect stereo width. I do know a couple of their plug-ins have M-S processing included, but you don't have an M-S source, so they wouldn't have any effect.

A guitar is a mono source, why would anyone think there is a benefit in recording it in stereo?

[Deleted]

Hi Glen,
Your problem may be one of EQ'ing;
Make sure your BT is as per optimum volume.
Forget Wim and take off all the cubase delay and reverb. Presumably you have recorded the lead track with EFTP patches?
If your guitar is too bright it wont sit in the mix but stand out unnaturally, if this is so remove some of the treble and add mid EQ as in home recording I find guitars like mid frequencies as the treble turns into brittle.
Once it sits reasonably well 'BUS' both tracks to an output track and add multiband compression or any compression if you don't have multiband but in any case there should be some presets.
Now start to add a lttle reverb on the guitar track and experiment until you are happy.
Tony