Your playing style

[spikestevens]

Would you say your style of playing is consciously based on emulating Hank Marvin's, or have you always had a very melodic style and only realised there were similarities between your playing and Hank's much later?

With me it's definitely the latter. I grew up being influenced by songwriters as opposed to performers (Goffin and King, Leiber and Stoller, Lennon and McCartney etc were my heroes, and still are).
Naturally I was aware of The Shadows but I didn't take much notice of them because that wasn't really my scene. But I've always been able to pick out a melody and play it by ear and in early bands and so on this stood me in good stead: when we were playing and someone in the audience asked for, say 'Distant Drums' but nobody in the band knew the words, I'd just play the melody line and people assumed it was a Shadows version and we'd rehearsed it like that.
The more I did this the more I began to appreciate Hank's role in modern pop music, and thus his style has definitely influenced me -albeit subconsciously.


Is this the same with anyone else? Or has anyone deliberately modelled their playing on Hank's instead of forging their own particular style?


Just something I'm curious about, chaps .

[specky]

Hi spike -thats an interesting one -
Id say when I started out -I was trying to copy B.hollys style and Scotty Moore-then Hank & Joe Brown -and then trying to copy the style on every record I could get my hands on ---
I agree Hank has been a HUGE influence on most guitar players (in Europe anyway)
A great subject for discussion

Merry Christmas to you and yours
Tommy

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Spike,
Buddy Holly was my biggest influence in my early days. I wanted to get that sound and really only in the last few years have I been able to get close. I eventually worked out that the 3 different original 60s Strats I had bought at different times were the wrong type of Strat for that sound, although they all sounded different.
Since those days I have been influenced by too many to remember but they include The Shadows, Chuck Berry, Hendrix, Moby Grape, The Association, Steely Dan (Larry Carlton and others) among many others.
Regards,
Charlie

[martyn]

Dec 23, 2009 16:32:11 GMT Charlie Hall said:

Hi Spike,
Buddy Holly was my biggest influence in my early days. I wanted to get that sound and really only in the last few years have I been able to get close. I eventually worked out that the 3 different original 60s Strats I had bought at different times were the wrong type of Strat for that sound, although they all sounded different.

Hi Charlie,
Why did you feel they were the wrong strats and how did they differ from one another so much that made you realise this? What would be right?
Interesting thread . . .

Cheers,
Martyn

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Martyn,
The first one I bought was a 64 that had been routed out near the top horn and a very nice looking shaped scratchplate fitted with Fender engraved on it near the top horn, and 3 individual pickup switches had been installed there. I did not like the sound of the pickups as singles and felt that they only sounded good in pairs or all 3. This might have been because the pickup wires had to be longer than normal. I swapped it for another 64 in sunburst which seemed to sound better. I probably would have kept that one except that the neck twisted. Thinking that it couldn't be repaired I traded it for a short scale Rickenbacker which I got fed up with after 2 or 3 years so traded it for a 62 Strat that had been refinished in poly. It seemed to sound better than the other two had. I kept that Strat for many years until I decided to have it refinished in its original Fiesta Red colour. It didn't sound any better afterwards and having experimented with other Strats while it was away being refinished, I began to think it wasn't as good as I had thought even though it seemed better than both of the others. Every amp I used with those Strats had to be modified to get anything like the sound I wanted.
All the project Strats I have had since have sounded better than any of the original 60s ones. I had a Japanese 62 reissue that sounded very good. The person I sold it to has had many people tell him it is the best sounding Strat they have ever heard.
Since then I have had better luck with project maple neck Strats.
Regards,
Charlie

[martyn]

Hi Charlie,
Would you always go for a maple fingerboard? I'm debating changing mine for a rosewood one as some seem to suggest this gives warmer tones - also considering the change of pickups we discussed in another thread (I will make up my mind eventually!) but figured I'd make alterations in stages rather than all at once as doing so it will be simpler to isolate the specific item that makes the difference, assuming any of the above changes does.

That's Plan A - Plan B would be to sell it as is and buy another strat that hopefully will have the sound I want. This could go on forever, of course. . . .

I've debated Japanese strats - although you sold yours on, how do you really rate them? Are they all OK or are there gooduns and baduns in your opinion and do you have to change out the electrics/pickups etc to get a decent authentic sound? Likewise,was there a bad era for these in the same way allegedly the early 90s was for US ones?

Back in the sixties I p/exchanged my original late fifties strat for a new (and now very rare) 3 pickup short scale jazz Rickenbacker - was yours the three or two pickup one? Both of these would be worth a mint if I still had them, albeit the Fender wasn't very good (Fiesta Red with rosewood board) but I loved the jangle tones of the Rick. It was great as a rhythm guitar but a bit oomphless for lead work.
Regards,
Martyn

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Martyn,

I think part of it is the brazilian rosewood that was used back then. It seems to have a much warmer tone than maple or indian rosewood. I honestly think there is less difference in sound between maple and today's rosewood. It would be interesting to compare views with others who have had both.
One danger is that you could end up with a neck that sounds bad with your body. If it sounds good as it is (I thought it did anyway) I'd leave it as it is, maybe just experiment with pickups. I think the only way you can go better without spending a fortune is to make, or have made, a replica sprayed in nitro. The chances are, you would find it to be a good guitar and you most likely wouldn't be selling it, so resale value is probably not a consideration.

The earlier Japanese Strats were pretty good. I bought one in 89 that had the vintage style staggered pickups. I think it had a basswood body which is not vintage correct and the poly finish probably wouldn't have been as good sounding as a nitro finish. I think some of the 90s Japanese pickups had flat poles. I found that the Japanese pickups have too much high end so I modded them by soldering a small value capacitor across each pickup which made them sound very good, although the output was lower than a US vintage style pickup.

My Rickenbacker was the short scale one with 3 pickups, just like John Lennon's would have been before he had it painted black. Because of the short scale it was the fastest playing guitar I ever had, and I got some good sounds out of it, but in the end I decided to go back to a Strat.

Regards,
Charlie

[martyn]

Hi Charlie,
Thanks for the advice. I could save up and buy a good quality US strat but with so many options it's difficult to know which to go for and whether doing so is worth the extra cost that US products carry.
Alternatively, if I were to go the route of having one made, who would be on your shortlist of makers? I know you just had one built and you must have deliberated long and hard before deciding which luthier to consult.
And if I did, given the multitude of options that route offers, what would you suggest as vital on the list of specifications? I read folk describing having special wiring/caps etc and I wonder how much credence you place in such things - do you think they make a vital difference to the sound or are they just window dressing?

Just for your interest, these shots were taken when I played in a band back in the sixties - I was about 18 then and had hair! Flower Power to the fore - can't believe I wore that yellow and gold kaftan on stage . . .

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Martyn,
Great pics! Peter Alden made my guitar from WD body and neck and did the spraying. He also put together the Fiesta Red one I have had around 10 years, that one has a Warmoth neck, not sure of the body source but both guitars are alder. I think the WD neck is just as good if not better than the Warmoth one.
The problem for Peter is that he does it more as a pastime when he feels like it, I don't think there is any way anyone would persuade him to do a custom build, although he did this one for me, but it was almost his idea. It resulted from buying the rubbish Kavanagh body, if you remember that earlier this year, I gave it to Peter for a future project, which then got him onto the idea of building a guitar for each of us, but not using that body for either.
In case it is any use for thinking about, I have a sunburst 1988 50's routing 3 piece swamp ash genuine Fender Custom Shop body finished in poly that I can't yet decide what to do with. Half of me says to sell it as it is, the other half says to have the poly taken off and refinish it in nitro, because I am convinced that the poly finish, being seemingly quite thick, is spoiling the natural body resonance. The Custom Shop logo is on the bare wood of the neck pocket so that could remain with a refinish. I paid £200 over 10 years ago and would want the same back if I decide to sell it. On the other hand, I also like the idea of a swamp ash body guitar in nitro for something different sounding.
Alan Brason has a good name with building guitars. I don't know whether he uses nitro finishes though.
Richard Bartram, who lives and works a few miles from me, is excellent and uses nitro finishes at least for as long as they will be available. He makes bodies and necks from scratch and also build fine acoustic instruments.
Neither of these will use a Fender logo for a new build but they probably do use them for repairing genuine Fenders.
As for wiring, I like it the way it was done on old Fenders except a 5 way switch instead of a 3 way one, although I do a simple modification that adds the lower tone control to function for the bridge pickup while keeping the other 4 switch positions as stock.
Regards,
Charlie

[rogera]

After seeing some of Alan Brason's work I was so impressed that I have had him make me a Telecaster and prior to that, a neck for my Strat.
He does use nitrocellulose finishes if requested and I would highly recommend his work.

[peterbower]

Hi Guys
Great subject and thanks for putting it on the forum.

Charlie, was that 62 Strat the one i sold you, I think it was a Flamingo pink or similar. It had a really dark rosewood board and sounded great. I know you did some mods on it. Fender Japan only ran the colour for about 18 Months and I heard it is now very collectable if you can find one.

My heroes that got me interested in playing guitar was the Shads, but equally Big Jim Sullivan and Jud Proctor not that I could ever be as good as them. I met Jim a few years ago and noticed he played a Patrick Eggle Berlin, I had my PE Los Angeles with me so he had a play on it and signed the head stock.

Peter

[spikestevens]

Big Jim Sullivan? Now there's a name I haven't heard mentioned for a while. Has to be one of the most respected session guitarists of all time.
It's absolutely incredible the amount of hit records that man has played on, from the 50's up to the 80's, and probably even beyond.

I really became aware of him in the mid 70's when ththe well known auction site City Rollers had a weekly show on ITV, I think it was. He used to give out guitar lessons and I always made a point of watching and trying to learn everything I could from him.

My aim was to try and be as good as him one day - I failed spectacularly!
But I've had a lot of fun along the way.

[peterbower]

Spike
Your so right about Jim, he was Tom Jones guitarist for 10 years and he told me that he played on over 1,000 top 10 hits with various artists. I met up with Jim at a pub gig a couple of years ago and he is amazing, he could play any thing from flamenco to heavy metal and his blues would leave even Clapton a wee bit jealous.

Judd Proctor in the 60's was one of the fastest players I ever heard and there was no way I would ever get near that speed and skill. Hank in comparison was a tad sedentary when compared, but as big Jim said to me, Hank was the best 'tune' player in the business.
Peter

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Peter,
Yes, the 62 reissue I was referring to is the one I bought from you. I think the colour was called Shell Pink.
Regards,
Charlie

[grip]

Hi Peter,

Dec 24, 2009 11:12:20 GMT peterbower said:

Judd Proctor in the 60's was one of the fastest players I ever heard and there was no way I would ever get near that speed and skill.
Peter

Now there's a name I've not heard in a long, long time. His version of "Nola" is one of my all time favourite numbers. Thanks for stirring a bit of Dormant memory.

Kind regards,


grip

[asimmd]

Hi All

Well,this reply may not go down very well but,it's true.

When I first heard Apache,I was immediately struck by the tone of the guitar,and to be honest,I couldn't have cared less who was playing it,if it had been Bert Weedon,I would have still liked it.
Needless to say it was this tune that made me want to learn to play,and my first guitar was the same model Hank started with.

I had a standing order with my local record shop that,every time the Shadows released a new record,I wanted a copy,and I learned to play each one as they were released.

Needless to say the first album kept me busy for quite some time.

I have never had any idols,and I certainly don't idolise Hank or any of the Shadows,as I said,they were the only group playing instrumentals at the time,and I wanted to play instrumentals.

I like to think I have developed my own playing technique though, probably in the style of the Shadows.

I won't bore you with my life story but,had things taken a different path,who knows where I may have ended up.

Alan

[spikestevens]

Hi Alan.

Yeah, I see what you're saying: it's your own style but it's perhaps based loosely on The Shadows because that's what you used to listen to a lot, and therefor Hank's way of playing stuck in your subconscious?

That's probably true of a lot of people on here: it's hard (probably impossible) not to be infulenced by guitarists you listen to a lot, and the fact that most of us on here listen to The Shads quite a lot, there's bound to be an element of Hank's in all of our playing. Perfectly natural, I would have thought.


My own situation is different in that I was never particularly a Shadows fan in my youth, but when I was learning the guitar I used to play along with the melody on almost everything I heard on radio or TV, and as I've aready stated my experience in picking out a melody line was invaluable when I was gigging in a band, and naturally it's great for the ego when you get people coming up to you after a gig telling you what a brilliant guitarist you are because you've basically done a Hank Marvin on a number the band can play but nobody knows all the words to.

[asimmd]

Hi Spike

I guess you are correct,there has to be a bit of Hank in us all,it's just that I have never gone all out to copy Hank in either sound or style.

I first played Shadows stuff on stage when the vocalist had nearly lost His voice one night and in order to let him recover for the second spot,It was suggested I play some Shads stuff.

We had played them at home for fun so everyone knew the chords,and as you say,it always went down really well.
From then on,we incorporated a Shadows spot in the act every night,which not only meant the vocalist got a rest,but I got to show off as well.

I was semi-pro for over 6 years,and I never tired of it,now I also play anything as an instrumental,and it brings a tear to my eye when I think back to those happy day's.

Alan

[grip]

Hi Spike,

Good question. It was Apache that influenced both my Brother and I to get guitars, and we certainly set out to play shadows style music. When we formed a band, we had to learn to play lots of styles and cover most middle of the road bands and cater for both male and female vocalists that joined us over the years, but our main "stock in trade" was always instrumentals done in a Shadows style (not always shadows numbers).


Kind regards,


grip

[shadowhankron]

Hi

Interesting Topic on guitars, can I ask a question. As in another Thread I started regarding Sound, my Guitat is a Fiesta Red Fender Strat American made 1999 year, how well rated would this guitar be amoung you great guitar players, it has original pickups but recently fitted with Elixir Strings .010---.046 gauge, would like to know comments please.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE
Regards

Ronnie

[bill]

Hi Spike,
First of all my playing is nothing like Hank's! I can't play at all these days but half a lifetime ago when I was taking classical guitar lessons the idea of emulating a particular guitarist never cropped up. The idea was to bring the ideas of the composer to life.

If I was to try to play electric guitar now I would try to forge my own style. I don't see the point of trying to sound like Hank Marvin (or anyone else) as he is still around and I can go and see him or listen to recordings of him if I want to hear that sound.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ronnie,
If your Strat is a US standard model it should be a decent enough instrument. Some players prefer the vintage style pickups though but they would fit your guitar. The problem here is that there are so many aftermarket ones to choose from it can be difficult to make a choice. On the other hand you might like yours enough without needing to change them.
You really need someone to test it out for you and compare with their own guitar to give you an honest opinion.
The unfortunate thing is that some Strats are better than others, even of the same model off the same production line and this has always been the case. Some of the highly prized vintage Strats are actually dogs. Variations in perceived quality must be mainly due to the variations in wood samples. Some guitar body and neck combinations just don't work very well while others do. A bad combination will not resonate very well. You need someone experienced to guide you with this as it isn't something that can really be resolved by discussing it alone.
Regards,
Charlie

[shadowhankron]

Hi Charlie

First of All HAPPY CHRISTMAS to you and your FAMILY.
Thank You as usual for your swift and informative reply. I treasure your comments as I feel you are very skilled with what goes on here on CHARLIE HALL & FRIENDS site. I know my Strat is a Quality American Model as my Friend who owns the Music Shop sold it to me 10 years ago,and his guitar tekkie said it was a great guitar. Only problem is the Out of Tune and my darn bad playing wanting to somebody I cant be ....LOL perhaps in the New Year I will be known as " Ronnie Marvin "

Have a Good Xmas Time Charlie and to everyone else HAPPY CHRISTMAS.

Regards

Ronnie

Dublin

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ronnie,
There is really only one thing usually that will cause a Strat to not stay in tune and that is strings sticking at the nut (this is the plastic looking bar at the headstock with slots where the strings pass through. Some models have a roller nut and these can also cause problems after some time).
A worn tremolo system (where the bridge plate pivots on the 2 posts in the case of a modern US model) can also cause a few problems but this is a less likely occurance.
If you have a chromatic tuner, it is possible to work out the likely cause of tuning problems with a bit of know how.
I hope you are having a nice Christmas.
Regards,
Charlie

[shadowhankron]

Hi Charlie

After two days of stuffing myself with Turkey,Ham,Veg, Stuffing, Trifle,Pudding,Wine My nut ( head ) not clear but I will check my Guitar nut tomorrow to see if any trouble there,Thanks for Replying.


Seasons Greetings

Ronnie

[peterbower]

Hi all
Just returning to the original post on this subject.
As a teenager in the early 60's, it was bands and guitarists around then that got me interested in playing guitar. I mentioned a couple in my earlier post and to add a couple more, Richie Blackmore who i saw many times with Screaming Lord Such and the Savages [Best rock band in the UK at that time] and good old Jo Brown. I loved Richie's classical riffs he put in to some of his solos on his Gibson SG.
It was these players that inspired me to play rather than trying to copy their style. As it happened I eventually found that Hank's style/tunes were some what easier to copy [not in all cases] than the others.
I never intentionally set out to sound like Hank and probably still don't, but playing in his style and sound has given me great pleasure and satisfaction. Currently, Ronnie Gustafsson from the Swedish band '1961' is my big influence although it was the Shads and the Spotnicks who inspired him.
Peter

[glyderslead]

Hi all,
I've just picked up on this thread and as Alan said a little earlier if you had done this or that who knows where any of us could have ended up. Peter mentioned Mr Blackmore - well he certainly took every chance that came his way, but lets face it he is a superb player. Having excelled in his bands I guess you all know he went on to achieve his dream as a wandering minstrell with Candice, playing his take on chamber music. Certainly I can clearly remember seeing him at a Town Hall somewhere in Kent in 1963. Gene Vincent introduced his band "The Outlaws" and as Richie took a low sweeping bow he effortlessly played a few bars of said chamber music - very impressive it was too. My band had opened the show that evening and guess what - after Gene Vincent and The Outlaws had finished and having been blown away entirely - our job was to go back on and play a further set!! Oh yes. Anyone elce fancy that? We were an ok band and had been offered a job as Gene's band for a tour, he had seen us before and we had visited his house, discussions etc. but that didn't happen - the lure and safety of the day time job with some band members - but had we taken the chance............who knows.

[jastreet]

Hi Guys,

I started playing acoustic guitar back in the 1970s, and played acoustic and bass guitar in an amateur folk group for a few years. Back then, my biggest influences were probably Martin Carthy, Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention. Although I have always enjoyed the music of The Shadows, I never really thought about playing lead guitar. Distracted by other things in life, the guitar became neglected for almost 30 years.

This year, I have rediscovered the guitar and have been inspired by the great music of The Shadows and the playing style of Hank Marvin. Now, I can't seem to stop playing and I practice almost every day. Hopefully, the neighbours enjoy it as much as I do!

Regards,

James

[Fender Bender]

Hi All

I must probably be the youngest on this site that's been influence by the Shadows.I heard their sound since I could remember.My dad had a huge collection of LP's and seven singles which mostly in the 60's & 70's was mainly made up of Cliff & Shads;The Shads;Elvis Presley;The Beatles; Neil Diamond etc.

He was never into more heavier rock stuff like Deep Purple;The Who;Led Zeppelin etc.That music I only discovered much later when I started playing band in 1982 at the tender age of 15.My late dad showed me the basic chords and so I started off playing guitar on the sound of The Shads on the age of 6.That sound sticked in my head and the more I played their music the more I was determined to play guitar.

My playing improved playing in a band that only did covers and so I was exposed to all other styles of music and is still the case even today.Although I developed my own style of playing over the years I believe part of my style is based on Hank although the other part of my playing is made up of Blues & Rock and a little bit "Chicken Pickin". If the old "Shads" stuff was not around when I was learning to play guitar I can't imagine how I would have created my own style really.

So yes I think that it is possible to achieve ones own style of playing even with the influence of a specific artist.Much to my surprise as I grew older discovered the likes of Chet Atkins;Larry Carlton;Ritchie Blackmore;Gary Moore;Eric Clapton;Brian Setzer and lately Tommy Emmanuel to name a few.

Happy New Year to everybody !

Regards

Louis

[john44]

Hi Charlie & everyone
I first started playing guitar at 18 and what got me interested first up were the Ventures Walk dont Run ,Perfida , Blue Moon etc. I think it was probably the chord progression and driving rythm guitar next were the Shadows and Duane Eddy I liked the tunes and style and I just learned to play them. But before then as a kid I loved to listen to Les Paul not even dreaming that I could ever play a guitar

Initially I did not try to sound the same and in fact played many numbers differently to the shadows never even thinking about them as individual musos or their style It was not for a year or so when I got a Klempt Echolette and could get the repeat on various delays that I thought I should try and sound like the Shadows and Duane Eddy and spent many a happy year playing around South East Queensland
As the Guitar instrumental fell out of favour We went through the vocal group, Tijuana Brass. and blood sweat and tears Chicago era and when the family started to arrive stopped playing( Big Mistake) and did not play or even touch guitar for well over twenty years Thank God I kept my Fender concert amp and My guild Starfire 3
A bit over three years ago after a heart attack I got a gas attack( Guitar Aquistion Sydrome) and started a collecting some rare but inexpensive guitars Ibanez blazer, seventies and eighties Aria,s and recently a couple of 57 RI japanese strats I now have about 30 and need a bigger house I think .late in 2008 I got some members of my three most succeful band together (amazing after thirty odd years we have remained friends) and performed about twenty numbers at My 40th wedding anniversary and we all asked the same question why the crikey hell we stoped playing
Back to the point of the thread I like to sound a bit like Hank when I play Shadows stuf and a bit like Duane Eddy when i play his stuff the same with the ventures and some of the Australia groups from that period The Atlantics and The Denvermen I have been fortunate to have had many influences but I honestly beleive that the Shadows have by far been the most significent
Sorry for the ramble folks but once you get started its hard to stop so I will quit about now
Cheers John44