Vox VCC-90 Coiled Cable

[betowelch]

Hi All:

I want to know if some members have experience with this vintage cable type. I remember that in the sixties this type of cable (coiled) had a lot of problems. According Vox informations this nowadays Vox model didn't have any more that old problems.... (In the sixties, I had one, not from Vox, a cheaper model....and really wasn't good....).

I'm asking about this Vox cable model for two reasons: One as it's available in Brazil and second as being a Vox product I trust that it will a good product for more vintage sound......

This type or model of cable will be the best recommendation for give us just an additional good contribution concerning Shadow's tone or there are others better ones?

Cheers from Brazil
Roberto

[garystrat]

Hi Roberto

Interestingly, I have had one of these leads for some time, but never really used it. Your mail prompted me to try it again on my computer system, which has pretty accurate monitor speakers and I was surprised to find that it does seems to warm the tone, particularly on the top "E".

I will experiment a bit further with this as it does seem to give a nice vintage tone, but there is no switch on the plug, so watch when you disconnect from the guitar.

Gary

[erikMAMS]

I have no experience with this particular Vox product, but the VCC090 description doesn't say anything about or claim to have "vintage" virtues - on the contrary - it's claims to have solved previous known problems by using audiophile cable quality.

The old type coiled cords had probably the highest capacitance value of any guitar cables heavily loading down pickups causing a warmer sound with less highs (all cables will do that to some degree dependig on type and lenght).

Vox VCC090SL Features:
In the past, coiled cables have suffered from poor sound quality, but the multi-gauge construction has allowed Vox to eliminate many of the undesirable qualities of typical coiled cables giving you one that is truly musical.

*Multi-gauge conductors give optimum performance at all frequencies
*Finest grade 99.99% purity OFC copper conductors for superior sound quality
*Maximum noise isolation using two separate shields
*Precision formulated polypropylene dielectric for better signal
transfer and unique sound quality


Erik

[garystrat]

Hi Erik

Yes thats right, but the original thought was that with the lead being coiled and of a specify length it altered the impedance, which can of course be done at the guitar end.

This was my thought when I purchased the lead, which seems to be confirmed in what VOX say on their UK site:

VCC Vintage Coiled Cable
The classic 'curly cable', the VCC has been part of some of the most historic moments in rock and roll history. A unique multi-gauge design uses individual conductor types that are optimised for their particular frequency ranges, resulting in a reliable coiled cable that is truly musical. The cable is nine metres long (29.5 feet) and comes in black, blue, red, silver or white.

I believe the original Hank Marvin leads were quite long and also coiled, many thought that this contributed to his early sound, having tried the lead over several numbers it does seem to give a more mellow tone?

Gary

[erikMAMS]

Hi Gary
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Cable capacitance do play a role in shaping the sound - today as in the early 60's, and IMO it's a vital parameter for getting the desired strat sound (either by finding the right cable type/length or by means of a carefully selected additional capacitive load).

My point is that the Vox description seems to me as being somewhat self contradicting - and I'll regard it as mostly marketing hype. That's not to say that it cannot work for you or others. If the cable sounds good to you it does the job - but probably for other reasons than the ones highlighted in the description.

Roberto:

This type or model of cable will be the best recommendation for give us just an additional good contribution concerning Shadow's tone or there are others better ones?

It's a question that cannot really be answered. There's to many variables involved - you just have to try different types/lenght to find what gives you the best results. The longer the cable (and the lower the quality) the more the load on the pickups = more warmth/less highs. My personal experience is that super high quality cables, will make the sound to brilliant/thin.

Alternatively you can use a cable with a low capacitance value and build a additional cap box with switchable values to test the effect or to dial in the exact load for the preferred sound in your setup.

Erik

[garystrat]

Hi Erik

Yes I realised what you meant, but reading the information on the VOX site there seems to be a coiled Rock/Bass lead and a vintage one, if this is correct I'm not sure which one I have as there doesn't seem to be any I/D on the lead?

This is the VOX URL: www.voxamps.com/uk/accessories/

Do you know how to identify one from the other?

Regards

Gary

[betowelch]

Hi Gary and Erik:

Thanks for your comments about this thread. I'm bringing up this theme as recently I knew about the good Charlie's experience in Mustang with a longer cable (5 mts).
I know about the importance of capacitance variance on tone guitar. Inclusive I have a home-made Cable Pedal based on a technical report in Goran site (that I think that was done by Erik) and I use it for switching a best settings together with the Cut Control knob to find a warmer and vintage sound.


Gary: I'm glad to know that you re-discovery this your coiled cable and find a warmer tone.

Cheers from Brazil!
Roberto

[erikMAMS]

Gary
Sorry I can't help with the identification. To me it seems that there's some confusion on the Vox site as to how many different types they offer - and the exact differences.

Roberto
I'm glad that you've found some use for the vintage cable simulation box idea I presented many moons ago.

Just out of curiosity, what cap values do you have in your box - and which of those do you find gives you the best sound (if any)?

Erik

[betowelch]

Hi Erik:

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I use this great your idea ( I only knew today that was you who wrote that technical report ....) and it's the first pedal in my effect chain. In it's a very useful tool to always find a better (or more recommended) tone in conjunction with the amp cut control. I don't have a preferred position...it's depends of the tune.

This pedal was a special gift that Marcelo (also a member of this site) gave to me. And I think that was made following that your technical report in Goran site. So I can tell you what cap values was used on it.

Cheers from Brazil!
Roberto

[martyn]

Just did a quick test to compare cables:
First part's my standard cable with Neutrik jacks (one silent jack to prevent popping etc), the second is the Vox cable discussed above.
Don't know about you but I can barely make out any tonal differences aside from slight playing variables - maybe the Vox cable's slightly mellower?
www.4shared.com/file/195035579/cec1e6b5/standard_lead_then_vox_lead_te.html

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Martyn,
I just put your track into Sonar, separated the second half into a second track and put Voxengo Span in both, then played the tracks simultaneously.
Voxengo Span showed that the response with the Vox cable was slightly down between 3-5KHz, so it seems to be giving a slightly warmer sound that should make high notes a little smoother sounding.
Regards,
Charlie

[martyn]

Hi Charlie,
Thanks for that - much more efficient test than relying on my lugholes to pick up any nuances in tonal difference!
I bought the lead on the off chance it might 'improve' the tone slightly and there's now your tests to show it's certainly altered it, albeit by a small amount.

One thing that first struck me was how heavy it is. I know Vox claim to have used special innards to create the vintage tone and many moons have come and gone since I played with a curly lead back in the sixties, but I don't remember mine being anywhere near so heavy. Perhaps it was thinner flex back then and of much cheaper construction - and thinking about it I suppose it may have been a lot shorter too, which would most likely account for the weight differences.
Regards,
Martyn

[betowelch]

Hi Martyn and Charlie:

OK. It seams that this Vox coiled cable give us a very little warmer sound. Tonight at home I will check better listening the sample with much more volume than here in my work PC (here with small speakers I didn't find differences....)

Cheers from Brazil !
Roberto

[martyn]

Just posted a quick recording in the soundfiles section using the lead.
Cheers,
Martyn

[erikMAMS]

Hi Martyn
Great sound from your strat in the TFYL test file (I personally would prefer a little less compression though).
Whether the sound with the subtle changes from the cable is closer to the sound you are looking for only you can decide.

IMO the point is that the cable capacitance effect influences the sound in a way that standard tone controls on guitar/amp cannot replicate.

Another point is that in quest for a certain sound it's IME often a series of changes - although individually subtle like your Vox cable effect - that will sum up in the signal chain to the desired overall sound. Whereas a fewer more radical (and individual more noticeably) changes will take the sound in another direction rather than do the desired fine tuning, if that makes any sense.

If you want to explore the cable capacitance a step further you could try another/longer cable or go for the cap box. I would think that even a little more capacitance - but not much - could be useable in your setup.

Can anyone measure the capacitance of the Vox cable?

Erik