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Post by twang46 on Feb 16, 2010 14:22:34 GMT
I recently mentioned on another thread about my intention to set up a "music pc" to be used for music/recording. My tower system sadly is no-go at the moment due to lack of space  Was wondering what effect processor speed has on popular programmes like Audacity/Audition ( versions 1.5 & or 2) and music in general ? I have 2 laptops One has a Celeron 1.7 cpu 2.0g ram & the other a AMD 2.0 dual core 4.0g ram. Hard drive space is basically unlimited (through usb 2 port). Graphics are "on board" in both cases but I don't see that as a problem. Sound is also "on board" but could be outboard also through usb2 I can use the "small laptop" for daily use internet/home office stuff, but would really prefer to use the dual core one for my daily work/surfing/printing tasks. So, does the panel think that a 1.7g cpu with 40g h/drive & 14.5 screen + usb add-ons will be good enough to use as a music base (no internet connections etc..) without causing undue problems as I get started in music recording/programming Anybody any thoughts ? What do others use ? How demanding are music programmes ? Lots of questions I know Cheers Dick. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2010 16:56:23 GMT
Hi Dick, The first point is that a usb interface or recording software will at some stage be subject to downloads for updates but more importantly - Drivers so you will have to have internet access. imho - Your Celeron would run recording software but only with a usb interface as the soundcard in the laptop may have serious latency problems. A 'Behringer UCA202' is a great sounding interface for around £30 www.behringer.de/EN/Products/UCA202.aspx it does'nt require power as it takes it from the computer but it does require the drivers from the site (as they all do unless you buy the little Boss BR 600 for example), dont be put off by the size just stick the number in on Youtube and lots of guys use 'em, I have one myself. USB interfaces once installed usually disables your internal soundcard so when not in use you have to change the Control panel sound settings. If you wanted something a little better with phantom power apparently the Alesis i02 with pre-amps, and I believe comes with Cubase LE recording software and midi ports which are always usefull. cgi.the well known auction site.co.uk/Alesis-IO2-USB-Audio-Interface_W0QQitemZ160401633677QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item2558aeb18d Tony |
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Post by twang46 on Feb 16, 2010 19:24:04 GMT
Thanks for the link Tony.
Downloads/upgrades are ok as I can copy them across on a usb stick from another pc.
I've been looking around for an external holder for a pci sound card ( M Audio, too good not to use ! ) but without any success. Using a laptop would be great but it's looking almost impossible to get the flexibility of a "tower" with all the space/clutter implications that they bring.
But, life is more interesting when your trying to cut down on space & it certainly keeps your mind working trying to make things fit.
Cheers
Dick.
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Post by rogercook on Feb 16, 2010 19:37:59 GMT
Hi Dick and Tony
I've just had to reload Windows on my tower system. It is now completely devoid of programs except for Windows XP Pro. As I want to use this predominantly for music recording and editing etc I need to decide what software I need to install.
It's a reasonable machine with 2 hard drives, 1 DVD reader, 1 DVD writer, Athlon dual core processor, 4Gb RAM, Creative Platinum soundcard/midi interface with front break out box. It does not have graphics on the mobo and has a Radeon card installed. I had it configured with wifi card, network card, DTV card but I'm not sure that I need all those facilities. Like Dick I have a laptop that I can use to access the internet and do business stuff so I'm really looking to use the minimum software in the interests of keeping it stable. It would be convenient to have the internet available but I figure I can download drivers to the laptop and move them to the music PC.
I intend installing Powertracks Pro Audio 12 as my main DAW, probably Audacity as well, plus various VSTs. Also some other audio software such as Cool Edit and/or AVS Audio editor and probably some scoring software.The intention is that the software will go on the smaller hard drive and data on the other.
It's a while since I've dabbled with music on the PC and this is really me thinking out loud, so any thoughts much appreciated
Regards
Roger
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Post by twang46 on Feb 16, 2010 21:45:06 GMT
Hi Roger You've got a big advantage over me, space !! At the moment in our bungalow I can use a room around 9ft square. My space for computer etc.. is limited to around 3' 4" in width (104cm), also in the room is a shelf unit (takes up the "dead" space behind the door when its open), amp, 2 guitars, table & 2 chairs & a 2 seater settee (and a couple of love birds that sing along with me)  As you can imagine space is at a premium, in the computer area I need to have (as well as the computer), printer, audio tuner/amp with 2 speakers (JPW mini gold monitors, "bookshelf size"), Zoom G7, DA5 amp & the usual collection of pedals/junk/cables etc.. Your set up sounds fine & like you I would normally use the system hard drive for the software & either a second drive or an external one for storage, (if the existing drive has enough room you could also add another partition for storage). I would also have a seperate drive on a removeable caddy for backing up important files as a "belt & braces" in case of any disasters that may occur. Given that you have gone for a clean reinstall, have you thought about Win 2000 pro with IE & Media player removed ?. This was the ideal I had in mind for the system I had hoped to set up. It would be clean, very fast & very stable without any outside influences to cause problems, drivers should not be a problem unless you get some really new hardware/software that does not support NT. Cheers Dick. |
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Post by rogercook on Feb 17, 2010 10:49:31 GMT
Hi Dick
I thought I envied your 9'x9' until I read what else you have in there, but surely 2 guitars are not enough ;D.
I'm sticking with XP Pro as that's what I have and I don't want to buy another operating system. I've just had to install the internet as I couldn't otherwise register windows after the re-install. I think I will leave the ISP software on but not physically plug it in except in emergencies!
OK, off to see if I can find the disks for the other software
Roger
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Post by twang46 on Feb 17, 2010 12:16:53 GMT
Hi Roger I keep the strat on open display in the room & rotate the others ( 4 in total) so as not to arouse too many questions I'm in the process of getting rid of the settee so that will help, but I also have plans for a 15" cabinet for the Pro Junior that will need a good explanation as well  Think I need to look for a small printer as the "all in one " Epson I have takes up far to much room. Good luck with your set-up Dick. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2010 13:27:15 GMT
HI Dick ,Tony, roger,charlie & ALL ,, ''WHAT-A-COINICENCE '''' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .. The very subject I have been disscusing with charlie by email !! A wqhile ago I ''promissed some sound-samples from a Q2 & M/stomp & my acetone-tape-unit ,which I was to record on my old phillip's cd-recorder & some may remember that I needed some CDRW-AUDIO-disc's as it wont accept any normal cdr's & or cdrw's that have not ''AUDIO-DISC'S'' these didc's are unavailable as they are no longer produced ,, But however I found 10x cdrw-audio-disc's in the ''UK'' & went ahead & ordered & recieved them about 4xday's ago .. NOW the ''SAD-STORY'' on tryind to record my example-notes I noticed it to record intermitently & with some static sound's with it !!!!! .. TO get more to the point after my effort's I find the CDR750 phillip's recorder faulty & after cleaning the laser etc etc is no better & a message pop's up quoting 'optical-error' so in the bin it go's after 10-12 years of Buying it new ''BUGGA''.. IT has been idle for about 6 year's in our heat here in ''OZ'' .. NOW to get to the subject at hand [after my winging-above] charlie suggested I record into the computer direct [something I was reluctant to get into as to the cost of the nessasary card's-program's etc etc & my non-expertese on the computer ,,.. SO I have bitten the ''bullet'' & ordered a ''UCA-222'' here in ''OZ'' ,I should have it soon  .. BUT Dick I have your problem-mate not-enough-room-in my music-room although a bit larger than your's is filled to the brim with a work-bench stereo &large speaker's a TV [for watching music DVD's ] just no room for an old computer & old-style monitor [17''] ,, so a S/H lap-top is in order & I can obtain one at a reasonable-cost from the guy I bought this desk-top-from [he recondition's them & sell's them with ''XP pro'' installed .. & I rang him tonight and he has a ''hewland-packard'' 15'' screen with cpu at 1.7 but only 512 ram , a dvd -cd combo player-burner & 2x usb-port's.. fully reworked & back to scratch ,, the thing is will this do the job ?. as I think the requirement's for the UCA-222 were less than this & should be OK or not..
SORRY to go on so but it is a thorn -in my-side having the cd recorder play-up..
CHEERS barry.. [ps] a UCA-222 here in OZ cost's $97.00 delivered & the S/H lap-top at $350.00 & your Pound is worth about $ 2.00 OZ about double!!! |
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Post by John Haldane on Feb 17, 2010 15:07:04 GMT
HI all
I also have just built a PC just for music, at the moment it as a 500GB sata hard drive, dual AMD processor,4 gb memory, and a 320 gb external hard drive, and no nasty internet connection, use my laptop for that, have not done any recording with it yet, it as built in Realtek HD which comes with own sound effects, will try it out if no good will get good sound card.
Take care
John H
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Post by rogercook on Feb 17, 2010 17:15:35 GMT
Hi All Barry - I have a UCA202 interface that works fine so hopefully the better spec'd 222 will do the job for you. I had a problem with latency with the laptop. The recording goes out of sync with a backing track but it can be adjusted, but even so it's a pain. No such problem with the desktop though John - Plenty of hard drive space there  . My laptop has Realtek sound on board (it's quite low end) but I didn't think it was up to the job hence the UCA202. I guess a "proper" interface like the M-Audio range would be the sort of thing to go for. Let us know how you get on Roger |
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Post by twang46 on Feb 18, 2010 0:15:43 GMT
Hi Barry
There is an option that you may not have heard about..........
On my Zoom G7 I can import the b/track & play along with it, then import into the pc via the usb cable into "Audacity" that has a "record what you hear" button.
No mixing other than adjusting volume levels of bt & guitar but enough to get started with recording as Audacity is a free programme.
If your effects gear can not do that, a simple audio interface should work in a similar fashion. Then when you have the file in Audacity you can then save/burn etc....
Cheers
Dick
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2010 1:12:40 GMT
HI Dick & ALL thank's mate I was cheesed off with the ''let-down'' of my cd-recorder which would have done what I needed , but I guess now I will have to sharpen-up my computer skill's HA.HAAAR.. at 70 not easy for me [give me analog any-time] but out of date now I guess when we need to send a file via email etc .. I have sold an old stationary-caravan for use as a spare room to finance this hopefully good lap-top? ? ..I have 4x old tower's but unfortunatly now out-dated as per the cpu-speed !!!! I will be maybe crying out for help as I start to get it up & running ?? THIS UCA-222,comes with a couple disc's with audition ???what ever that-is? & anothe disc with some other software XT2.5 I guess I will get my head around it eventully HA.HAAAR.. Dick has your weather allowed you ''back-in-your-shed'' to your other-project's? ?.. CHEERS TO ALL & THANK'S for your support !!!!...........barry.. |
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Post by George Lewis on Feb 18, 2010 5:55:02 GMT
Hi Dick,
Assuming your recording will be a single guitar with the BT already loaded here are a few thoughts.
Laptops can save space and are easier to carry around and much easier to damage, but for home use that's about it really. For everything else including cost, reliability, expandability, upgradeability, repairability, useability and other things ending in "bility", a desktop is better if you can make the space.
My PC (P4, 2.8G, 1.5G Ram, XP Pro, Behringer FCA202 Firewire external box ) is under the desk with only an LCD screen and keyboard on the desk. This has the added advantage of being very easy to kick if it get's too big for it's boots, like when it adds wrong notes etc to my recordings. ;D
It is used for everything except pouring the drinks, but when recording, I disable the network/internet connection, then all anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-malware, firewall, email etc. software. Also only have needed services running and Windows set for performance rather than prettiness. Sometimes I don't bother with that and it still works OK. However, I was an IT Pro for many years (that just means I don't read the manual until the thing is completely stuffed), but since you know about disk partitions you should have no trouble trying the above.
With an external USB card like the UCA202 which can play and record at the same time, recording shouldn't be an issue even with a 1.7G Celeron and 2G ram. In fact you could consider running a RAM drive with say 512Mb of the memory and use it as high speed temporary working disk space that the editing software will need.
Audacity applies it's editing and effects as a "once off" after you select them, so it is much less processor intensive than something like Reaper, Audition or any of the editors that allow you to hear and change the effects in real time. I suspect your 1.7G Celeron would be struggling with those programs, depending on how efficient the effects plugins are.
Each audio project will need probably 100 - 500 Mb of disk space, which means an external USB drive may be needed.
I'm sure others will also have ideas.
Regards
George
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Post by George Lewis on Feb 18, 2010 6:03:38 GMT
Hi Roger,
I noticed you mention a latency problem with the recording track out of synch with the BT when using the laptop. Just wanted to make sure you know that Audacity (currently V 1.3.11) now has the option to automatically apply a latency correction. Once you determine what it is for your setup, it won't vary much.
Cheers
George
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Post by George Lewis on Feb 18, 2010 6:08:10 GMT
Hi Barry,
If I can help once you get going give a call. I have a VOIP phone and can call you back at no cost and untimed.
As they say...
"Try to learn from other's mistakes ... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself." ;D
Cheers
George
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2010 2:55:55 GMT
HI GEORGE ,, THANK"S-MATE ,that's good of you as at 70 ha,haar I have no time to spare making ''digital-mistakes'' [give me a racing engine to build-up ''any-time -in preference] I may well phone you mate & we have a top-telsra plan [cost's the earth] but can ring std at no added charge .. [the satelite service [broad-band i have here at boob will not handle phone] it's a really awful service but no other choice ... ''MISTAKES.....HA.HAAAR..........HA.HAAAAR. I am the world's worst at mistakes on the guitar & if any body is watching I get worse !!!!!!!!!! I have seen you play [on video -perth] & you have no-worrie's-mate that is unless your key-board-mate put's you OFF ,''SORRY-TONY'' ''JUST-JOKIN'' HONEST !!!!!.YOU two are a very good-''COMBO'' [now I am sucking-up ha.haaar.] no really great-stuff that you two do... DID you get ''RAIN-YET-IN-WAGGA'' & I may drop-in when the ''UTE-SHOW-is on & say hello? ? CHEERS ALL ............''SA-BARRY''..[PS] george would 512-ram be enough & 1.7 cpu speed? ? see my message above!!!!.. |
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Post by George Lewis on Feb 19, 2010 3:36:19 GMT
Hi Barry,
512Mb Ram will work because Windows will use hard disk space for swapping in and out of RAM memory. But it would be painfully slow which is the last thing you want when learning.
Ask the guy how much to put in an extra 1G of memory, shouldn't be more than $120, might even be less if he replaces the 512Mb with 2G.
cheers
George
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2010 23:51:21 GMT
HI GEORGE,,, I have sent you a ''PM'' ..
CHEERS ...............barry..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2010 23:20:03 GMT
HI ALL ..... WELL I have had a run-around with getting started with a computer-based -recording -set-up.. THE ''laptop'' has been & gone!!![had a faulty cd -dvd-player-burner]  & with an arrangement with the guy I deal-with have swapped it with-him for a ''IBM-space-saver-deck-top & a 15'' LCD screen .takes up little room in my room!! & AS ''George'' pointed out above ,a more reliable unit & faster [3.2-pentium 4 & more ram] ''GOOD-ADVICE-''GEORGE'' 'thank's.. SO now the learning can finally begin , getting this computer has been in total 750ks driving to adelaide-[twice] to resolve ,but hopefully I am now -''on-track''.. I have my ''UCA-222'' & have the disc's installed [audacity-etc etc] .. Yesterday I removed the low-little table in lou of a slightly larger one that''s taller as well-[less back-bending] I will post a picture later & attach to this message... I must thank Dick ,Tony Roger,JohnH, George & ALL for your help & Dick have you gotten-set-up? & if so what type of ''audio-interface have you got? ?.,THE UCA-222 I found to be the cheapest-option for me !!!!! CHEERS ALL ..................barry.. I cut the leg's of this'' once desk '' to angle towards me & it is taller than the coffee-table that was in place,& the IBM space-saver & screen fit's OK..  |
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Post by John Haldane on Feb 25, 2010 15:34:43 GMT
Hi Barry Your room looks just like mine, if I tidy things up I can never find things again, spend more time looking for things and then find it's time for bed ;D Take care John H |
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Post by rogercook on Feb 25, 2010 16:19:45 GMT
Barry's room is far too tidy . John, are you sure your bed is in the right room ;D Roger |
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Post by twang46 on Feb 26, 2010 0:27:17 GMT
You are now officially my "hero" Barry, space should always be full, if it is to tidy other people can find things This is my "space"  And the "other bit" behind the door  Strangely, the room "saved" by moving my "tower system" to the loft is now just wasted with "odds & ends" taking up the space it was in so will probably be able to be moved back down again No proper interface yet Barry, but the settee is about to go, so should get a bit more space although will then have nowhere to "hide" guitars behind. One of these days I'll get some space to call my own  Cheers Dick. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 5:42:12 GMT
HI JOHN,H,ROGER,& DICK,,,,,,,,,,,,,,john that's actully tidy as to what it was mate it just get's worse as time goes by. but as you say tidy takes-time we have little-of!!!! Roger it is hard to hide leads,plug-pack's etc , I will try to improve my ''game-ha.haaar'',what happened to ''amp-guitar-combo'' as the old day's no-pedal's effect's ,just tremelo, reverb in amp if you were lucky to have those features? ,,1 by guitar-lead is all one needed !!!!! NOW we need an amp with built-in ''EFPT'' reverb,&comp!!! & 1 line out & headphone-out and then no messy leads??? [IS THERE SUCH AN ANIMAL] if so ''BRING_IT_ON''!!!!! !!!!!! OK!!! Dick ''where? ?? are all the lead's hidden? ?,I must say mate your room is impressive ,tidy & well organized ,, where will you sleep when in the ''dog-house'' if you remove the settee? ''nice rosewood-black-strat if you are so stuck for room Icould store that for you perminantly ha.haaar....  THIS is the other messy bit,should all be in one ''AMP-COMBO'' , well Dick this is 1 side of the room the other is fully taken-up with work-bench [electrical &music related only] & other non disposable stuff such as an older-type vinal stereo-gram !!!& ''no-settee'' no room for a settee!!!!!! CHEERS.TO.ALL..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,barry..[ps] the uca222 work's OK with audacity ,but as yet to make-up that sound file as prommissed but after all the bad-luck with recording I feel I'ME on the roght''TRACK''at last.. |
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Post by twang46 on Feb 26, 2010 10:59:14 GMT
G'day Barry. Combo with EFTP box "built in" now there's a thought ;D ;D ;D As it happens I'm thinking about a new cabinet for the Pro Junior, so........... if the cab is made bigger something like a Zoom rfx or similar "rack" type could be fitted in as the amp part is quite compact. Or possibly some sort of "docking port/holder" for a Zoom G2 through an "A- B" foot sw. Plenty of ideas, not enough time to see them all through Cheers Dick |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 12:15:58 GMT
HI Dick yes mate food for thought there in the cab we should work-on-it? ? Dick will you use a 12'' speaker in the new cab? [would be a good-move].. I have mentioned the 12'' loranz green-back-clones made exclusive in victoria 30 watt & or 75 watt a great speaker for the price I have 2x of them in my remote speaker [vox-dimention's] cab!!!!! $139.00 OZ & they will post international ,IF you like I can post the spec's here? ??.. THEY are somewhere on the-site in any-case as I posted them along with the ''CEL-BLUE'' spec's a good while ago... CHEERS ALL ...................barry.. |
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Post by twang46 on Feb 26, 2010 13:36:32 GMT
Not sure to go with 2x10"/ 2x12" or 1x12" Barry
The shipping costs for bulky items like speakers normally price things out of reach from Aus.
I can get Celestion Vintage 30 (12") for the same price as the Loranz over here & it seems they are a similar type of speaker.
When I make my mind up I'll let you know, perhaps you could ship me over your Laranz's to play with
Cheers
Dick.
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..
. My laptop has Realtek sound on board (it's quite low end) but I didn't think it was up to the job hence the UCA202. I guess a "proper" interface like the M-Audio range would be the sort of thing to go for. Let us know how you get on
