New Fat 50's

[loujones12]

Hi Guys. well i finaly got my new GENUINE Fat 50's. as the others i purchased were not of original. However after i installed them. i found out that the second string [ B ] didn't have the same volume or equal to the others !!! Hummmm . so i installed another set of differnet brand. Same problemo?? so i took the axe appart again and measured the K. all said the were good and as per info on box.. Bridge 6.2k Mid 6.3k Neck 6.0k. hUMMM Again. so i removed the Bridge. and re installed the original Alinco that it came with. all equal volume. however i feel its lacking something now. is it because i have mixed an original to the two remaining fat pup's. and also even though i installed them one at a time the selector switch Ain't right. 1st position Bridge Pup second Pos, bridge and neck. 3rd pos, middle.. neck pup. 4th pos, mid and neck. 5th position middle??? I just don't seem to have any luck with Fat 50's. and comments guys??? before i go NUTTS... regards lou

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Lou,
This will happen to a certain extent with all vintage staggered type pickups. It can be evened out somewhat by lowering the pickups. You should check the string balance of each pickup separately. If the thin E string is overpowering the B, lower the pickup that is selected slightly on the treble side. Make small adjustments at a time. Do not make adjustments while two pickups are selected together, you would never be able to balance the strings by doing that.
I depress the strings at the highest fret when measuring pickup heights, this way it is easier to see if the pickups are each about the same distance from the strings.
String gauges can also affect this. I use a fairly thin plain G to reduce the loudness of that string. It wouldn't be a problem with a wound G but not everyone wants to use a wound G.
There should be no reason that a single different pickup will make the others sound different but it is possible that if the sound is thin and nasal when the bridge pickup is selected with another pickup, then the bridge pickup is out of phase with the others. This can be cured by swapping the two wires from the out of phase pickup, the only problem being that one of them won't be long enough to reach the switch.
If the pickups are too close to the strings, false harmonics (like a warbling sound) can be heard on higher notes when playing a plain G string and the bass E string. It can be caused by one or more pickups being too close, but usually the neck pickup and if present will be heard when any pickup is selected. The answer in that case is to lower the neck pickup and maybe the middle one as well.
If the sound is lacking because of the original bridge pickup, just remind yourself why you changed the pickups in the first place.
As for the selector switch, you have got the neck pickup and middle pickup wires to the switch the wrong way round. I know you said you changed them one at a time but there is no other explanation for why it is wrong. Maybe they were wrong before. Swap the wires on the switch for those two pickups and the selector will work as it should.
The recording you just posted sounded like a bridge pickup was used. Was it the Fat 50's bridge pickup? If so, it sounded fine to me.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

Hi Lou,
A number of years ago I had a set of pickups custom wound because of this exact problem and asked for all the pole pieces to be the same height. This cured the problem and I used them for a long time. Later I owned more than one guitar which is a Mex Classic 50's player. The stock pickups were quite good but staggerd as you describe and I noticed the same problem as you are having. I also had occasion, for comparison recently, to install Fender CS 54's and Fender 57/62's and both had the same problem but the 57/62's to a lesser degree. Strangely enough I owned a 1976 Strat which I bought new back then whilst I was still gigging and never noticed and was never an issue. Why! I don't know.
What Charlie says is absolutely spot on. After all his suggested instuctions and you still can't live with it, custom wound poles may be the only answer.
Incidentally I lowered the height and dipped just like Charlie's described and I'm Ok with the 57/62's now, they sound great but the 'B' is still slightly apparant but not too intrusive to my playing.
Tony

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Tony,
I think 76 Strats had flat poles.
There is apparently a difference with the sound of flat poles compared with staggered poles, according to Seymour Duncan it has something to do with the phasing of the magnets. I have always found staggered pickups to sound better to me.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

Hi Charlie,
I had a total of three strats during the sixties and seventies in my early gigging days and I honestly never knew anything or was even interested in the mechanics of them. I can't remember anything about the pickup pole heights and did'nt know what you had just outlined. The only problem I ever encountered was the tremelo arm, they always went wobbly on me and each time they slackened I used to give 'em another couple of turns and then put tape round. Nowdays I am much more aware of the schematics of the guitar taking more notice and looking after them better.
Tony

[Pittnuma]

Aye Trem arm & tape, that's the answer for me!!

DC

[loujones12]

Hi Charlie. guys. thanks for response. Charlie. the fat 50 Bridge pick up was changed back to the original. and left the mid/neck fat 50's on. as i said the problem and why i took off the fat 50 pup was there was very low audio from the second pole B string. i tried ajusting height. and replaced strings. Same. i thought i got a bumm Pup. maybe cuz the sound on the other pups is cuz they are Not of the full set??? ill take it appart again the weekend and check the switch wiring. is there anyway of checking the pups without re/installing it all again!! its a pain in the A@@e . they measure the sam K as the box says. and the Mid Pup is cloth covered. the other two pups have a Blue and Red dot on them and the all have a silver flying v type sticker on them. is the red dot neck or bridge??? i put the 6.0K on the Neck!!! im not a happy camper?? and somewhat disapointed in sound... cheers guys Lou

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Lou,
Was your recording using the Fat 50's or the original bridge pickup?
What is the string balance like on the neck/middle pickups? In other words are they all with a string balance problem or is it just the bridge pickup with the problem? I'm trying to figure out if there is a problem or not. If all 3 pickups have about the same string balance then it is more likely that they are not faulty.
The coil windings have nothing to do with the pickup responses from each string. That is down to the magnet type and height. It is possible that the bridge pickup (if it is the only one of the 3 with the balance problem) has a faulty magnet or magnets.
The 6K is the neck pickup. The bridge pickup is the 6.2K pickup and I think has the red dot as far as I remember.
The only thing that can upset the sound of pickups from different sets is when two are used at the same time and they are out of phase with each other. I mentioned previously that it is possible that your original bridge pickup is out of phase with the others. This would only be the case, if when using the bridge and another pickup in switch position 4, the sound is very thin and nasal. Phasing has no consequence when a single pickup is used. Check the sound of each pickup one at a time to begin with, only check combinations of pickups afterwards. If there is a thin sound in switch positions 2 or 4 then there is a phasing problem between the two selected pickups.
Regards,
Charlie

[loujones12]

Hi Charlie. No. the recording was done with the original Pup. Volume on all other poles, were fine. just the Bridge Pup Pole when i installed the 50's. however if selected an tapped gently with a small screw driver you could here the click/clunk sound on the poles and also seemed to be low on this pole. . so thats why i took it off thinking it may be a bum Pup. they are Genuine Fender 50's made in Scottsdale Arizona . you would think that they are Tested before packaging? but i guess anything can happen, just my luck after all this time and effort. i want to try it again??? but its a real pain, to do it and have that feeling in your mind you may be back to square one!! the problem doing an Ohm test with meter on pup's is that the Values are so close. and my meter digital, can flash 6.2 6.3, and so on. maybe thats why they put the red/blue dots on them. could be in wrong position!!!! but the instruction in the box don't tell you this?? so i want to find out for sure where the red/blue colors go!! regards Lou. ps. by the way the wire lenght on the fat 50's are of all equal lenth. i didn;t cut them i just soldered them in and coiled the wire up in the body. will this do any harm, or it will allow me to swap them around if in wrong position... tnx.. lou

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Lou,
It sounds like the bridge pickup has a faulty magnet. It has nothing to do with the resistance of the coil. I would consider sending it or the whole set back for replacement.
Good that you didn't cut the wires to the correct lengths at this stage. It can be done once you know all the pickups are OK.
If the red dot is on the 6.2K then it is the bridge pickup. If not, then I'm not sure what is going on there.
Sorry that you have had problems even with a correct set. They are good when they are right.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

HI ALL ,,THE red-dot is on the bridge in mine , I feel reading this thread that ,as charlie has said it may have a weak magnet fitted as I would not think the factory would check ''string-balance!!! I feel that the test they would do is check for continuaty only?
LOU you should find the F/fifties very good when you sort-out this problem with the supplier ,As they have that extra output ,that copes with the cap-mod [warmer TOP E] better than a std p/up,
Well that's what I have found ,,,& I agree with you on the backside-pain-issue of changing P'up's on the strat .. it takes time !!!
Good-LUCK mate ..................barry..

[loujones12]

Hi Barry, thanks for post and input. Yes i think ive now found the problem. the neck and bridge pups are in wrong position. i have the blue dot at bridge, or did have as i took it out due to the low volume on the one pole? and replaced it with original pup. maybe when its re/installed in right place it could be ok. there is NO Instructions re/ the colored dots? only the K Value and wiring diagram in the box. and because the values are so close when i measured them. thats where i guess i screwed up . ive since managed to find and post some info on this matter in the Tech section. it may help others in the future. thanks Barry and have a Good Un.. Lou