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Post by betowelch on Aug 15, 2010 23:53:39 GMT
Hi All: Sorry for my small presence in the site in last months. I've been a lot work busy and also in the mean time I decided to start a band project and my day needs to have some more hours......to help me I want to start a technical discussion in this thread with the intention to show what I already get and also to bring to this matter some other members that could have a great experience in studio audio recording. I had been follow several threads on this site about the great Pete Korving's sound and I decide to study a little more this matter. I'm really a great fan of PK's music and mainly fan of his great "wall of sound" (in studio recordings) in his chorus parts. Something great.... Isn't just only to add a second or third harmonized guitar together with the lead (as usually I had been doing in my recordings) or just a simple double-stop... I'm sure that there are much more than this....And so...I decided to go to "the battle of the PK's great sound".... In this weekend I did my first attempt where I recorded just only the first chorus part of one of the best PK's tunes - Conquest of Paradise, where this spacial, fat, and great PK's wall of sound it's (imho) at the top...... Here's my first attempt: www.4shared.com/audio/EsSnQpB1/Conquest_of_Paradise__Roberto_.htmlAs this was just my only first attempt, I'm sure that I could to get some improvements, in a basis of trial-and-error or with some PhD members collaboration and at the end of this thread all we can have some more tools to give in ours home-recordings a more professional treatment sound. And at that time I'll be happy to sharing with all members the complete details of this my sound recordings experiments. I'll appreciate the comments about this my first trial and your suggestions it will be welcome... Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by tonybiker on Aug 16, 2010 1:03:48 GMT
Hi Roberto. You have been a busy man, I did wonder where you had been hiding.
Little doubt your demo is outstanding and your heading into Korving territory, no doubt about it. Due to the late hour I am on headphones so I will listen again tomorrow on monitors.
I am sure those, like myself that likes the more modern approach to clean guitar sounds will be keen to know more on how you managed to achieve this sound, more so if its possible to take this sound from recording to a live situation.
The sound you have on your demo is remarkable and the closest I have ever heard to the PK sound.
Tony
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Post by kipper on Aug 16, 2010 5:51:42 GMT
hi roberto dont know who it sounds like?? but i do know i like it!!!!! good stuff. peter
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Post by didier on Aug 16, 2010 8:25:25 GMT
Hi Roberto,
I am also a great fan of Pete's playing and sound.
Listening to your test, you have obviously discovered most of his "secrets" to get such a sound !
Didier
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2010 10:18:17 GMT
HI ROBERTO ,,,,,,,,,,very nice ,I have peter's CD with this tune on it ,I Love the tune ever since the ''olympic's -held in russia '' where I first heard it .. let us know can you do that live ? Piet has a method on the ''echo-tapper''-site as to peter's fantastic-sound .. I admire pete's ability as a player & as a sound man , but great stuff by you roberto ,keep-it-up-mate.. CHEERS .....barry..
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Post by betowelch on Aug 16, 2010 18:23:58 GMT
Hi Tony / Peter / Didier and Barry:
Thanks all for listen it and for your comments about. Of course that this is a first trial of an attempt to emulate the PK's sound (in chord parts) that he has in "studio situation" where you can doubling the lead as you want....Not for live situation....
In this sample I've recording and doubling 6 different track lines of my lead guitar....and all of then slightly with different echo time and/or in different panning position and mixed all together... There is a lot of things that I'll want to improve in this matter....but this is just a starting and I'm happy with this first results.
Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by clivea on Aug 19, 2010 9:11:40 GMT
Hi Roberto,
An interesting thread you've started here my friend. Great sounding 'Conquest of Paradise'. Pete K did tell me that he uses a '57 Reissue Strat with bog standard p/ups that came with the Strat; and a Magicstomp (EFTP) into a Line6 Spider amp set on the Jimmi Hendrix amp sim. Reckon he's using a bit more than this eh? besides his fingers that is! I too am a great fan of Pete's music and sound and would hope that you share the outcome of your further trials with us.
Rgds - Clive
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Post by betowelch on Aug 19, 2010 12:43:39 GMT
Hi Clive: Thanks for your reply in this my study and attempt about PK's studio sound. The sound of PK at studio, certainly, has very much than only that you mention. Pete Korving, imho, knows how to use the studio the modern audio technology and tools much better than others top guitar players. And his studio sound is his trademark of course besides his great art as a guitar player. Just only to give a confirmation of that, I'm posting the same tune part of PK's studio recording and the same one at live when he plays this tune at Shadowmania 2007: 1) PK studio recording: www.4shared.com/audio/6nYKHOnd/Conquest_of_Paradise__by_Peter.html2) PK live at Shadowmania: www.4shared.com/audio/VomGfFmS/Conquest_of_Paradise__PK-_samp.html3) My attempt (in studio): www.4shared.com/audio/EsSnQpB1/Conquest_of_Paradise__Roberto_.htmlI'm not trying to say the obvious, i.e, that the studio sound it's better than the live sound....Obviously that this is a true....but in PK's sound he knows (imho) as nobody how to mix a lot of guitars and give us a great spacial and fat sound......to enjoy our ears.....And this my attemp it's just only to try to find how could he does it...... Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by Jan on Aug 19, 2010 14:10:45 GMT
Hi Roberto Don't search to deep, regarding his equipment, it's very simple. In the time that he recorded Conquest Of Paradise was his chain as follows. * Guitar (57 reissue) * Boss FV 100 Volume pedal * Boss GE 10 Equalizer (try to find one it's great) * Quadraverb 2 with eftp * Line 6 Pod 2.0 *(choose the Fender setting) * Computer and recorded with Adobe audition 1.5 But the most imported equipment for his sound are the fingers of the man himself just as Clive mentioned. This together with the fabulous use of his volume-pedal and the use of the tremelobar creates the Korving sound! Click on the link below and listen to a very young Pete Korving together with his band The Silver Strings. Those oldies are recorded in 1988/1989 somewhere in a studio in Leiden. Pete was here in his mid twenties, and if you listen.....even after all those years his sound is still so recognizable....coming from his fingers because the equipment from today was not available back than. Pete is the lead guitarist and is also playing the keyboard. The sound files have lost some quality bit thats because they are coming from a tape and they also have a lower bit rate of 128kb. De songs: Run To Yesterday - Bixbee - First Runners Up, are Pete's own compositions. www.4shared.com/play/27768130/7aeafd61/The_Silver_Strings.htmlIn the last two years or so he's using the YMS and a London City Stratocaster with a callaham bridge (for more sustain), for his recordings and Cubase instead of AA 1.5. And in a live situation there are just a few things with him, the pod 2.0, his echo unit and his volume pedal. Sometimes just only his guitar to play over a PA installation from the organizer. Have a listen to something really amazing (IMHO) "I Put A Spell On You"..... LIVE!!! Recorded at The Cliff & Shadows meeting, Tilburg 2005 www.youtube.com/watch?v=jah06ZkwLzwNice recording Roberto I really like your attemp of this tune but Pete's Backing Track is great to. Good to hear that you and others are fans of his music and brilliant style. Well done buddy!! Regards Jan
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Post by betowelch on Aug 19, 2010 16:51:45 GMT
Hi Jan:
Thanks for following this my thread and for your reply. Also thanks for the information about PK's gear, although this wasn't the focus on my thread. Very probably that as my English isn't something great I couldn't explain as I wanted...
What I was trying to explain it's how could be possible have such great "wall of sound" (in some parts of a tune) as PK has. And what I'm trying to explain it's that this is possible only through a mixing audio lead processing where you will need to recording several times the same lead and then doubling it and process each one in a different way and after all that you can mixing all these in just only one final lead.
This is what I did in my sample and tried to explain to that members who, like me, love the PK's sound mainly in chords parts. And this concept (imho) isn't dependent of what gear to be use....It's a mixing process from one or two or three or more different lead recordings than you can process all together to get that overall great sound, that it's impossible to have at live....unless you have 3 or 4 lead players playing together.....
I'm also agree with you that the PK's backing track help me a lot to show this effect....In the PK's backing track in this chorus part, he mixed it including several guitars playing the lead line but in harmonized voices.... so can help to get that overall sound when you add the lead melody line. In that Shadowmania 2007 video you can note that in this part (as the band was playing only with one lead) he doesn't get that spacial and wall sound....and he was limiting to use only the volume pedal and just only a simple double-stop.... .
Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 17:07:52 GMT
For his general wall of sound try tweaking; Magicstomp U18 patch Long Tom 2 into a pod xt Vox/Marshall/Matchless amp 2x12 cab with a longish delay and the "I think" convolution reverb set to around 25ms. Thats if you have this gear. Its my B in Laws sound and he does loads of Korving stuff as a bedroom player coming out of 2 x Roland Power monitors. Tony
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Post by betowelch on Aug 19, 2010 20:56:24 GMT
For his general wall of sound try tweaking; Magicstomp U18 patch Long Tom 2 into a pod xt Vox/Marshall/Matchless amp 2x12 cab with a longish delay and the "I think" convolution reverb set to around 25ms. Thats if you have this gear. Its my B in Laws sound and he does loads of Korving stuff as a bedroom player coming out of 2 x Roland Power monitors. Tony Hi Tony: Thanks for your following to this thread and for your reply. In my sample basically I've used 2 different echo patches: One recording track with U18 and another one with U10 both using in YMS. And after that I process both, doubling it, and panning at highly extremes (L and R) and also I use a Duet plugin to alter the echo timing maintaining a gap about 30 ms between the 2 main echos.... At total was 6 different lead tracks that was all mixed in only one and final lead..... Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by Charlie Hall on Aug 20, 2010 22:14:28 GMT
Hi Roberto, After listening to the original and then your version, I think you have found the right kind of processes for the sound. For single parts, it is best to not play the same part twice, and try to somehow process the single track to create a stereo echo. This can be done withn two different echos as you have done (not so easy to do unless you record the track dry and then add the echoes after), or by sending the echo part of the sound to a different track, then use this echo track say for the left side, and have a delayed version (30ms should work well) of the same echo track for the right side. This keeps the original dry sound in the centre of the mix. For duet (or more) parts, then you obviously then have to do it all over again for each part. You can then pan the dry sounds to the centre of the mix, or spread them apart slightly. Regards, Charlie
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Post by betowelch on Aug 21, 2010 0:15:28 GMT
Hi Charlie:
Thanks for your reply and for your comments. I think that with all these "research" it will help me in future recordings where I wish to give an up in the sound. I always was fascinated with this wall sound in PK's recordings.
For the other simple parts where there isn't need that spacial wall sound I understand what you are explaining me.....but I'm not sure if I really will to know to follow your explanation....So let me try to "translate" what I'm understanding and please correcting me where I'm wrong. 1) For simple part, first at all, I'll to record just only one lead without echo. So I will to record it with the YMS in bypass ("effect off"). It's that?; 2) Then I''ll need to add an echo effect. OK....But this it will be only possible to do through the software (Adobe Audition)....But how I could select the same parameters of echo that originally I have, per example, in YMS patch U10? It's possible to know in YMS visor what is the echo time of a patch? I know that the first knob inform me the "level echo"...but not the echo time.... That's the point....and my doubt....
As you said (and I'm agree with you), the best solution for the simple parts it will be just only doubling one time the lead. It could be done with the original dry lead at center and two simple (not doubled) wet audio located at pan extremes and having a different of 30 ms (in echo time) between both.....
Again thanks Charlie for your good reaction about this my sample....It's a great proud to me...and encourage me more to try go ahead......
Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by Charlie Hall on Aug 21, 2010 0:29:57 GMT
Hi Roberto, I was thinking that you could record the dry part, then send that recorded part to the Magicstomp (you might need to be careful to not overload the Magicstomp input) and record the echo part (with the dry signal of the Magicstomp turned right off with knob 2, I think) to a new track. I personally wouldn't often use a short delay like 30ms for the dry signal, I would use that kind of delay on the echo to create a stereo echo effect. Or record a different echo through the Magicstomp to a third track so you would have a stereo echo effect that way. Regards, Charlie
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Post by betowelch on Aug 21, 2010 1:16:33 GMT
Hi Charlie:
Thanks for your reply. OK. I'll try to do this way....as soon as possible...as this week my PC just died......and now it's at the service repairing.......enyoing a little vacations away from me.....
When I could to continue these recording I will try this way to use in the simple part and if OK I'll to record the entire tune to post here...
Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by didier on Aug 21, 2010 7:47:43 GMT
I was there, and I remember Pete playing live on his own backing tracks, without any guitar amp (his Pod 2 was dircectly connected to the PA). I have the DVD with a few more live tunes from Pete. Didier
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Post by betowelch on Aug 21, 2010 9:47:36 GMT
Hi Roberto, I was thinking that you could record the dry part, then send that recorded part to the Magicstomp (you might need to be careful to not overload the Magicstomp input) and record the echo part (with the dry signal of the Magicstomp turned right off with knob 2, I think) to a new track. Charlie Hi Charlie: In the mean time while my PC it's in "vacations"..... just to retake this what you're telling me upper....How I could send to the Magicstomp a dry part preliminary recorded and get a wet signal? The Magicstomp has this possibility? Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by petekorving on Aug 21, 2010 10:12:07 GMT
Hey Roberto ! Nice topic indeed :-)
Mind you, I have learned it all from Hank ! One of the reasons I obtained a amp-sim like the POD (or nowadays the Line 6 Flextone...) is it's because it has a stereo (balanced) output together with a stereo muliti-tapped delay.
Recording the signal (sequence: guitar->Boss FV volume pedal->MStomp->Line 6 Flextone III with the stereo extra multitap) should be done in stereo..
Then on the recording I'm adding several extra harmonized leads in the chorus parts.. That's all there is to it... ;-)
Have a listen to Parisienne Walkways, How Do I Love Thee, Queen of Hearts, Local Hero (have a CD in front of me to name a few...) and so many many others from Hank/the Shads ..... It's all been done in the same way...
The trick is to record the extra harmonized tones on the same string you played the lead on.... That's because each string has it's own particular sound So the phenomenon is quite old frankly.... ....
So, I'd rather do not take the credits.......it's all Hanks..... :-)
Hope this helps ?
Cheers
Pete
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Post by betowelch on Aug 21, 2010 12:46:28 GMT
Hi Pete:
Thanks for your reply and attention to add your comments in this thread that as main theme has the challenge of to emulate more or less your "wall of sounds" in chords parts in someone of your great recordings..... And in part I'm agree with you...tha't all this you learned with HM but not all the credits should be with him.... We learn a lot with you too...... as you have your own sound and your own particularly mixing process audio giving us an overall sound (in studio) that it's your real signature.... as HM also it has...but in some way (imho) you give us a more rich "wall of sounds" in some chords parts of your recordings...
Again thanks for your comments in this my thread.
Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by Charlie Hall on Aug 21, 2010 13:55:51 GMT
Hi Roberto, Any signal you send to the Magicstomp will normally have the same signal + the added echo effect at the Magicstomp output. To get only the echo signal at the Magicstomp output, you have to turn off the dry signal with the middle knob #2. When you select a different patch you would have to turn off the direct signal again, because changing the patch resets to the default settings. Regards, Charlie
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Post by betowelch on Aug 21, 2010 16:16:20 GMT
Hi Roberto, Any signal you send to the Magicstomp will normally have the same signal + the added echo effect at the Magicstomp output. To get only the echo signal at the Magicstomp output, you have to turn off the dry signal with the middle knob #2. When you select a different patch you would have to turn off the direct signal again, because changing the patch resets to the default settings. Regards, Charlie Hi Charlie: OK. Now I understood.... Thanks for your reply and informations. Cheers from Brazil! Roberto
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Post by clivea on Mar 7, 2024 12:04:52 GMT
Roberto started this thread some 13.5 years ago and maybe because of it's age, I cannot open the links. Is there any way of opening these? Rgds - CLIVE
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Post by shadfan4 on Mar 7, 2024 12:49:52 GMT
I can't either as banned for life from 4shared for my post of Here comes The Sun which was there since 2011.
Mike
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Post by clivea on Mar 7, 2024 14:05:32 GMT
Whatever for Mike?
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Post by shadfan4 on Mar 7, 2024 14:27:55 GMT
3 strike policy of 4shared. It is quite atounding they had given me 2 warnings of alleged copyright "infringment" material which is sent to them by "Bots" that trawl through their content, of which I had responded it was only posted for technical evaluation and the "Fair use policy" AND NO MONETISATION. Then my 12 yr old post of HCtS was flagged by the "BOT" and I was told I was now banned and no more file sharing but I could access my account anytime to download my own stuff, but that didnt happen and now I only get "404" page not found message every time someone posts on 4shared. But I get round the ban by using a VPN on the "Dark Web" so up yours 4shared 4Shared is nearly all copyrighted material and if all users were banned like me there would be no 4Shared I had my post of "Hotel California" banned actually by The Eagles management on youtube but I was allowed to appeal, and did with the same point about posted on guitar sites for evaluation and no monetisation and they agreed to reinstate. so you can win occasionally. www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKWuGskduqQMike.
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Post by clivea on Mar 8, 2024 9:35:13 GMT
Does anyone have an answer for this?
Rgds - CLIVE
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Post by shadfan4 on Mar 8, 2024 12:10:27 GMT
Just looked at file through Dark Web and it still there and live but I couldnt download it due to some glitch somwhere in the world my IP is technically.
You could also try messaging roberto for the file..
Mike
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Post by jetblack69 on Mar 8, 2024 16:23:17 GMT
\
Roberto,
I am a big fan of PK and love his wall sound, would love to hear your soundfiles but for some reason I cannot even get into 4shared now. I used to have an account for this filesharing site a LONG time ago but for some reason my Mac will not let me even open a NEW account or access my OLD account. Could you put these files on Box or similer so I can join in this intersting thread.
Steph.
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Post by sandra on Mar 8, 2024 17:05:34 GMT
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