tremolo arm broblem

[andystrat]

Somebody mentioned getting it Heli Coiled? I am sure one of the members will help you out.
I have the same problem and I think I have got to get the trem block changed and a new arm.

Andy

[andystrat]

harley posted this the other day.

the simplest and cheapest way to sort the wobble is to get your trem block heli-coiled and fit a decent arm. the problem with the mass produced stuff is that the threads are terrible on both the arm and in the block. a good thread on both will sort the problem.

cheers
Ian

Read more: charliehall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7076#ixzz1Aew97myb

[garystrat]

Hi Brian

It could be as simple as replacing the spring, this compresses the arm threads against those in the block taking up the slack.

The trick is to only tighten it until the spring just bites enough to tension, over tightening will result in it becoming loose very quickly. This has worked pretty well for me and several of club members without having to resort to tape.

If that doesn't work, then a replacement precision hardened steel block could be the answer. Unless you are able to do it yourself, I wouldn't have thought that removal, drilling and tapping a block for a Heli Coil is going to save a lot.

This is a link to Callaham Tremolo Blocks, there are are others, but this will give you some idea of whats available:

www.callahamguitars.com/blocks.htm

Gary

[andystrat]

Jan 10, 2011 18:54:07 GMT garystrat said:

Hi Brian

It could be as simple as replacing the spring, this compresses the arm threads against those in the block taking up the slack.

The trick is to only tighten it until the spring just bites enough to tension, over tightening will result in it becoming loose very quickly. This has worked pretty well for me and several of club members without having to resort to tape.

If that doesn't work, then a replacement precision hardened steel block could be the answer. Unless you are able to do it yourself, I wouldn't have thought that removal, drilling and tapping a block for a Heli Coil is going to save a lot.

This is a link to Callaham Tremolo Blocks, there are are others, but this will give you some idea of whats available:

www.callahamguitars.com/blocks.htm

Gary

When you say the springs Gary, do you mean the 3 spings under the back plate?

[joeboy]

Hi Brian

Instead of using plumbers PTFE tape, try using gas fitters PTFE tape, it is similar tape but is thicker & as tough as old boots, it lasts for ages & doesn't break up like plumbers tape. Try that before spending out on a new block.

Here: cgi.the well known auction site.co.uk/4-x-PTFE-Tape-5m-rolls-Gas-Water-Oil-Air-/330517604983?pt=UK_DIY_Materials_Plumbing_MJ&hash=item4cf4626a77

The spring Gary is talking about drops down into the threaded hole that your arm screws into

Here: cgi.the well known auction site.co.uk/TREMOLO-ARM-TENSION-SPRINGS-X-2-AMERICAN-SERIES-STRATS-/280511407340?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item414fc864ec

[harley]

Jan 10, 2011 18:54:07 GMT garystrat said:

I wouldn't have thought that removal, drilling and tapping a block for a Heli Coil is going to save a lot.

This is a link to Callaham Tremolo Blocks, there are are others, but this will give you some idea of whats available:

www.callahamguitars.com/blocks.htm

Gary

not sure how much a callaham trem block costs but a replacement arm and heli-coiled block is £20 plus postage

regards
Ian

[richie]

hi there .or you could just use a spring drop it in the bridge block hole tighten the arm up
then your sorted
cgi.the well known auction site.co.uk/TREMOLO-ARM-TENSION-SPRINGS-X-2-AMERICAN-SERIES-STRATS-/280511407340?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item414fc864ec
Richie

[garystrat]

Hi Andy

Riche has covered it, there should be a spring below the trem arm, this often gets lost as there is nothing to hold it in when the arm is removed. My advice though is not to screw down too tightly on it, just enough to bite and go into the right position or it compresses to much to do the job and can be difficult to remove.

Most savvy people just twist a bit of card to plug the hole to stop it falling out after the arm is removed, if it is not there you can get them from most good guitar shops for about £1.00. They are Fender part No. 099-4931-000.

Hope this helps.

Gary

[andystrat]

Thanks guys.. I will pop to the store tomorrow and get me some springs.

Andy

[les]

I am thinking of touring Denmark street in London to look for a decent strat,What worries me is that i had this trem problem 32 years ago,well, i sold the strat,bought a Les Paul, ......... and never looked back ! I wonder if it's likely that this trem problem still exists as i won't be too happy about parting with £2000 or so just to find this problem cropping up,perhaps the high end strats are put together with steel blocks now, .......... something i will need to be sure about.On the other hand,I am now wondering what on earth makes a strat so expensive in the first place,as i used to change over loaded scratchplates at will and in no time at all,seemingly making strats the ideal kit guitar. Best wishes, Les.

[harley]

Hi Les,
if you get the chance, try a Simon Neil strat. It has the word "Squier" on the headstock, which i know that will make a lot of people run a mile with their noses in the air, but try one back to back with something with "made in USA" written on the headstock. I did exactly that and bought the Simon Neil strat and im considering buying another as an investment. I genuinely believe these will be sought after in years to come. there is no point in me telling you about the guitar, try one indecently, the wobbly trem was present on both...
regards
Ian

[andystrat]

I have a Squire and it is the muts nutz! Better built than my USA Deluxe that's for sure.
Plays well and the next is very nice. C Shape nade. All vintage fittings. I have the 50's Vibe Classic.
It looks and feels as good as the USA one and is about £250 cheaper.

I only paid £224 for it brand new from GAK. Well worth a look.

Andy

[andystrat]

This is in another thread, stetsbar.com/PDGImages/chrome_strat_big.jpg maybe this is the answer to the wobble?

[les]

Hi Ian & Andy,Thankyou for your help here.Yes,Its very true,There are squires out there as Andy says that play really well,I know because i passed up the chance to own one on a couple of occasions,I can't believe my own stupidity at letting them go.They were certainly well made & put together,intonation was perfect on both,Then like a dope i turned them down, ......... and i thought that i knew what i was doing !.They only really required a change of a loaded scratchplate !,But there you are,I was no doubt looking to deeply into them.
I also passed up the chance to purchase a mexican strat a few weeks ago ! well made / put together,£249 with padded gig bag,Yes, at one time i would of laughed at this,But i wish id bought it !This would of been ok,Only would of needed to drop a different loaded scratchplate in and i would of been happy.In afterthought i definately can't part with that sort of money after all on a high end strat when there are fair builds to be had for a lot less.I am years past the snobby thing of looking at the label which is why i use a Gould L P copy here at home and on gigs along with the Deluxe. Ian,Andy,Thankyou for your views on my thread.Yes,you make a lot of sense & probably saved me a trip. Best wishes, Les.

[garystrat]

Hi Les

I have three guitars, an American Standard with Bare Knuckle Apache pups, 2007 Burns Marvin and a Mexican Fiesta Red with maple neck.

I run a Shadows Club, quite a few of us get together both at and outside meetings, so one gets a good chance to play and listen to a range of guitars. The interesting thing is that although my Mexican is bog standard, many have commented on how nice it sounds and plays extremely well.

I think this is one of those areas where the law of diminishing returns comes into play. For those who can afford it, the value of having something really nice that is possibly going to last them a lifetime is perfectly valid. The important thing is to play them and find one that you are totally comfortable with, don't think that just because it has a high price tag it will work wonders.

In terms of the block, my American standard is probably better, but these are all things which can be addressed for a lot less outlay.

Gary

[les]

Yes Gary,Very good points,I should of added that my L P Deluxe has gigged and sessioned everywhere over the last 31 / 32 years that i have had it. ( bought from new ) so the quality of materials speaks for itself.But yes,I was thinking along the lines of an American standard or deluxe,Another thing i couldn't handle on such an expensive purchase is the 60 cycle buzz that i got with my old strat but i think that the deluxe comes with noiseless pups, ........... Then it's wether you can achieve the sound i suppose. Best wishes. Les.

[andystrat]

I had the Deluxe and thought it was very pingy at the top end.
With 10's i was never able to control it over ringing on the higher notes.

Maybe it was me, but compared to my Squire, it seems to have less gutts to it. Where as the squire has some real balls and a great punch to the tones. Crisp I guess is the best word to use.

if you look on www.gak.co.uk you can get the 50's Vibe in 2 tone sunburst for £224.00 inc delivery. Well worth another look.

Hope it helps a little

Andy

[kenja58]

Hi Brian
The only thing that works IMO is PTFE (plumbers) tape but you have to do it right. Most people just don't put enough on. Every time you take out the arm it looks as though the tape has come off. Just put more on. In time it will build up inside and you will find that you can take the arm out and put it back again and it will still screw up tight. Sometimes you have to give it an extra turn then turn it back again and it will tighten up. If not just put more tape on. Don't skimp, it's only cheap. If you need to clean out the thread anytime just pick it all out with a bent needle or narrow tweezers.
Other modification remedies are expensive and not always successful.
Ken

[garystrat]

Hi Brian

The above gives a clue in that you expect the arm to fall away, I certainly like it to stay put or follow the playing without too much effort. If you want the arm to fall away it almost certainly has to be loose by definition.

I know that one or two of the third party blocks have a small Allen Key screw that sit just to the underside at the rear of the bridge to control the amount of friction, which may not be suitable for your preference.

Gary

[harley]

Hi again

i dont want to sound like a broken record but heli-coiling the block and fitting a decent arm does two things. firstly it removes the wobble, completely! secondly, it makes the thread a good enough fit that, with the addition of a spring, it can be adjusted to either stay put or fall under its own weight WITHOUT any wobble. fitting a spring alone will take up the slack but it wont remove the wobble. a loose thread is a loose thread, spring or no spring. all the spring alone will achieve is stop the arm from falling under its own weight

regards
Ian

[andystrat]

Thanks harley.

Will be talking to the shop tomorrow to see if they can do this for me.
Not sure about the cost yet, but I don't expect it to cost a huge amount.

Cheers

Andy

[les]

That sounds like a really good and proper solution ian,well done. best wishes. Les.

[Deleted]

hi everyone, c'mon guys forget the tape, we spend all that money on our guitars / echo units etc etc why not get the job done properly have an easy mute system fitted by V.M.L. 01923 825619 ask for Ian i had mine done 6/7years ago problem solved or at least have a helicoil and new arm fitted after all the arm is a integral part of what we do regards phil

[Deleted]

Hi
Richie is correct the little spring makes a staggering difference.
pop one in the tremolo arm hole and ensure it goes in straight. Apply a little grease to the end of the trem arm and then screw it in. If you take the tremolo arm off again keep a little blue-tak handy to cover the whole to stop the screw from falling out.
Job done !!
George

[garystrat]

Please don't think I'm making a case against a good engineering solution, tremolo arm actions have been a long standing debate with Stratocasters and are very much part of the functionality.

There are various degrees in terms of how loose the trem can be and people have their own preferences as to how much tension they like on the arm, your proposed solutions are the only way forward in cases of either a really worn or poorly toleranced thread. To be honest, I really can't understand why this is not better addressed by the factory, using hardened steels, tapered fits or compression techniques in various combinations are all options we have seen adopted by third parties in the past.

In terms of the "spring" it is unlikely that just any old spring will do the job, the correct Fender spring lacks a lot of compliance. This is a double edge sword, over tightening will cause the spring to compress and make it less likely to return to do its proper function (it can also spread, making removal difficult too!), on the other hand, slight compression keeps the arm in place and exerts upwards pressure on the threads, which in my experience will "help" in cases of the arm being slightly slack.

I agree with you Ian, for those who are comfortable taking their guitar apart and doing a little engineering work, Heli-Coils have a tolerance of +/- .0001 and there is little reason to believe that they wouldn't work well, but I suspect that it is something that most in-store guitar techs would be reluctant to do. This then brings us to the option of replacing the block and arm together, which has the potential advantage of matched tolerances and possibly higher quality materials being used.

Its the old story "pays your money and takes your choice".

Regards
Gary

[andystrat]

The VML
Total tension trem
block system.
(no more loose arms)

Block work is £55.00 Plus the cost of the arm £36.00.
According to Ian at VML it is easy to fit as well.

Not sure I am brave enough to take my block out ..

[johnyboy]

trev wilkinson trems have push in-pull out cheap but very well made. i have a vintage v6 and its one super guitar for money. holds its own againsed dear fenders ive heard

[cleggy]

hi guys, this is my 2 pennies worth. There are 2 problems with trem arms. the first is a trem arm that swings around, & the second is one that does not but wobbles because there is no precision in the threads. The small spring that pops into the hole will cure a loose swinging arm, but will not cure the problem of wobble in the threads. You can helicoil the thread, but alternatively you could drill & tap the thread to about M10, screw in a socket cap head bolt (high tensile) cut & file flat & then drill & tap to suit the thread on your trem arm. This will at least give you a precision thread in the block as opposed to the poor thread associated with cast ally blocks. Cleggy

[Tone]

Hi

I had the VML Total Tension trem system fitted to one of my Strats and it works very well, so much so that I don't even think about it which is the way it should be. No arm wobble and it stays in whatever position I put it. Personally, I don't like the shape of the EasyMute arm (I think it has an adverse effect on the looks of the guitar) but Ian at VML even supplied a modified standard arm so visually you can't tell that the system is in place.

Not cheap, though.

Cheers.

Tony

[TonyL]

I'm with Johnyboy on this, I've just purchased a V6 which I'm pleased with and it has the Wilkinson push in arm and the amount of slackness is controlled with a small grub screw under the tremolo plate.