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Post by asimmd on Jan 25, 2011 10:05:50 GMT
Hi Brian
I have exactly the same guitar,(serial 0331)gold hardware, and I was wondering what is quirky about it?
I also have a Custom Shop NOS56,but the Marvin plays and sounds much better.
If anyone can say what is Quirky,I like brian would be very interested.
Alan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 10:53:47 GMT
I was lucky to find a virtually unplayed, Shadows Custom Limited Edition, for £800 last October.
Mine is one of the 500, gold hardware ones and came complete with all the docs., accessories etc.
Have often heard the Burns being described as 'quirky' in reviews. Maybe it's down to the overall styling and also the rather unique vibrato. Some people that are used to playing Strats, really can't get on with them (don't know why!) and some Strat aficionados, detest them!
I own 3 Strat's, 2 of which are Mexican (all gold 50th Anniversary one & a white Hendrix LSR) and one of the 1954 USA 40th Anniversary run. Great guitars and the Burns certainly isn't inferior to them at all. Certainly different, but not inferior. Fantastic low action due to the radius of the fingerboard and that zero fret.
My only criticsm to date, is that for some reason it doesn't seem to stay in tune as well as the Strats. Can't think why, as none of those have fancy, locking Sperzels! Must admit, although I now know the Fender vintage trem. 'inside out' and can set it up perfectly, the Burns unit is still somewhat of a mystery and is not as accessible as the Fender. The jury's still out as to whether the tuning glitch is down to the vibrato or possibly the 'nut'/string guide. Other than that, great guitar!
Steven.
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Post by asimmd on Jan 25, 2011 11:38:10 GMT
Hi Steven
Glad you like the arvin,I must say I don't have any tuning problems at all.
I hadn't used locking sperzels before getting this guitar,but I must say they are excellent.
Like you, I have mastered the Fender Trems,and setting them up is now a doddle.
Alan
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Post by 26rednef on Jan 25, 2011 11:55:55 GMT
Hi.
The most frequent source to that a guitar doesn't sty in tune is the tuners and the way the strings is winded up on it and the way the the tuning procedure is made, then on a guitar with tremolo the tremolo springs tension is important and on a sliding system like the one on Burns the friction can be a problem also. I would try to wind the strings on the tuners correct and make the tuning correct, always start from a lower note and tune up never down, if that don't fix it I would look at the tremolo and the springs.
Kind Regards,
26rednef
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 11:57:16 GMT
Hi Alan,
Yes, I'm glad I bought it. It followed from my recent interest in trying to play some Shadows material after years of doing (admittedly poor!) Hendrix impersonations. My family were getting sick of hearing my distortion drenched version of, 'Star Spangled Banner', now they groan each time they here 'Apache' or 'Wonderful Land'! You can't win really....!
Must try and upload some photos of my guitars when I figure out how. I put together a replica of Hendrix's psychedelic Flying V for my son, some time back. Just looks like the £8K Gibson one. Maybe not of interest to Shadows fans, but I was quite pleased with what I produced from a £100, no-name V copy.
Steven.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 13:23:39 GMT
Hi 26rednef,
Strange, because any tuning/trem. problems I've had with new guitars, has always been down to the trem itself. On new Fenders, often the 6 fixing screws are screwed down way too tight and slackening these off a bit, not only gives a smoother 'feel', but also helps the return to pitch.
As regards Sperzels.............
The Burns is the first guitar that I've owned that's had them. The only info. I could find was actually in the owner's manual that comes with Fender guitars (Sperzels were fitted to the Strat Plus range in the 1990's).
It advises stringing up with NO string wrap around the posts. Just unlock the mechanism, pull the string through taut, re-lock and then tune to pitch. Oddly, it also states that with Sperzel locking tuners, you should go beyond correct pitch and tune DOWN to correct pitch!
Locking tuners may be good, but personally I don't think you can beat the old Kluson style, both for appearance (on a vintage style guitar) and operation. That Safet-post design, where the string end just winds down into the hole, is still a great idea, some 50+ years on. I've never had tuning/return to pitch issues with Klusons on any of my Strats., even doing Hendrix-style trem. arm gymnastics!
Steven.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2011 15:04:21 GMT
Alan,
I've just checked and my Marvin is number 0344, so just a few away from yours!
Before getting the Marvin, I'd given some thought to a '56 NOS Strat. Lovely guitar, especially if you get one with a good birds-eye figure on the neck. Then I tried to rationalise things and thought, that really, apart from the colour, it'd just be another Strat. and I'd already got 3 great playing & sounding ones. Also, I'm just a home/low volume player and I doubt if at the levels I play at, I'd notice much difference sound-wise, compared to my other ones.
Anyway, I decided on the Marvin because it was going to be different to the Strats. in looks, feel & sound.
Steven.
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Post by davebod1 on Jan 25, 2011 17:33:19 GMT
Hi Steven,
If you've eliminated the tuners and the trem system you may find the problem is the nut. When the strings slide up/down with trem action they don't return to position properly because the string sticks somehow. I've had tuning probs with a couple of strats and its turned out to be the nut, I poo pood it at first when someone told me but the guitar techy said it was a common problem. It needs filing properly. Since I've used graphite nuts I've never had an apeth of trouble.
Dave
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Post by derekdelboy on Jan 25, 2011 21:57:23 GMT
Hi Brian Just for interest ... I have one too !! ....they are great I don’t have a tuning problem it may well be the trem setting on Stevens model or the strings are not pulled tight when the sperzel is set …. I was told to keep the string windings as short as possible… it works for me.. ( Steven could put a little graphite from a lead pencil on the zero fret and on the bridge saddles too ( under the string !! ) , just slacken the strings off a shade then apply the graphite lead and then retune ) Note serial No. !!  ;D DerekA couple of piccies.... www.box.net/shared/ng818im6hiwww.box.net/shared/dybff4ye0q |
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Post by 26rednef on Jan 25, 2011 22:33:55 GMT
Hi Steven.
That should never happen on a good instrument, and is a indication on that the instrument is not proper set up from start or not at all and in that case I would go to a other music store or ask them to set it up correct before I try it.
Kind Regards,
26rednef
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Post by derekdelboy on Jan 25, 2011 22:59:32 GMT
Hi Steven and Brian.
Regarding the "quirky" !!! .... it has been said that the design of the Marvin , Marquee etc is quirky ... I think this is in relation to the scroll headstock ... the guitar itself isn't in my view,
Derek
BTW ... what make and guage strings are you using Steven ... I use 11s ... that I understand is what they were / are setup for ..( lol)
If this problem persists I have Barry Gibsons email which I will give to you if you PM me. He will get you right !!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2011 10:28:45 GMT
Thanks to everyone regarding their suggestions about the return-to-pitch 'problem' I've got with my Marvin. By a process of elimination, I'm almost sure that it must be the nut/string guide that's at fault. In point of fact, the slot for the high E string has actually been cut too wide and there's also a slight 'ridge' at the bottom of it. I noticed this when I was hearing a 'ping' whenever I tried to bend that string as it was catching & moving across this 'ridge'......annoying! Next time I change strings, I'll have to fill the existing slot with some superglue & bicarb., let it harden and then re-cut it. Obviously, this area of the guitar hadn't been subject to a good enough final inspection, or it would have been spotted. These things happen, even with quality products......................
As far as the return-to-pitch on some of the other strings, I find that if I bend the offending ones, or wiggle the vibrato arm, they do return to pitch. This does make me think that they must be catching in their respective slots. I think that if it was the vibrato unit itself that was the culprit, ALL the strings would be affected and not just a couple.
Steven.
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Post by brian on Jan 26, 2011 11:56:52 GMT
Hi Brian Just for interest ... I have one too !! ....they are great I don’t have a tuning problem it may well be the trem setting on Stevens model or the strings are not pulled tight when the sperzel is set …. I was told to keep the string windings as short as possible… it works for me.. ( Steven could put a little graphite from a lead pencil on the zero fret and on the bridge saddles too ( under the string !! ) , just slacken the strings off a shade then apply the graphite lead and then retune ) Note serial No. !! ;D DerekA couple of piccies.... www.box.net/shared/ng818im6hiwww.box.net/shared/dybff4ye0q |
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Post by brian on Jan 26, 2011 12:02:29 GMT
Hi Derek, one number away from me, now that is quirky. lol. Brian
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Post by martyn on Jan 28, 2011 1:13:10 GMT
Thanks to everyone regarding their suggestions about the return-to-pitch 'problem' I've got with my Marvin. As far as the return-to-pitch on some of the other strings, I find that if I bend the offending ones, or wiggle the vibrato arm, they do return to pitch. I think that if it was the vibrato unit itself that was the culprit, ALL the strings would be affected and not just a couple. Steven. This may or may not help as I had similar tuning problems on my Marvin some while back and traced it to the very tiny gap between the trem arm's swivel barrel and the adjacent woodwork. The arrow points to it in the accompanying photo. In essence, this barrel was rubbing very lightly against the woodwork and not always freeing itself sufficient for the strings to return to pitch. Interestingly it appeared to be more notable with just a couple of strings too, which doesn't make sense but I remedied the problem by loosening the securing allen nut in its centre and made sure the barrel was pushed as far across to the left as it would go before retightening. This may have no significance in your case but it's worth checking that gap as a friend's Marvin has a larger gap and it therefore isn't so critical.  Cheers, Martyn |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2011 11:15:20 GMT
Hello Martyn,
Thanks for posting that possible cause. I've just had a look at mine in the area that you suggested and unlike the photo of yours, mine has plenty of 'free space' between the woodwork and that barrel nut.
Initially, I did do a check of all possible, visible areas of potential contact between the vibrato mechanism and the woodwork and unfortunately, couldn't find any issues that might be the cause.
One thing that I did notice though, concerned that plastic 'finishing piece', that is fixed to the body where the vibrato plate ends. Mine wasn't fixed exactly central, ie, there was a slightly wider gap on one side than the other. I've noticed this on several other Marvins. Mine was very close on one side and I did think that there may have been some contact with the movement of the plate. Anyway, I was able to slide the blade of a feeler gauge between the plate and the plastic, so once again, a solution to this return-to-pitch niggle eludes me...........
However, in a broader sense, I don't obsess too much about these things anymore.......they can drive you mad if you let them! In reality, during playing, I don't actually hear any of the strings being 'out', only if I check with a tuner and then sometimes they are and sometimes they're not! One of these days, I'll discover why..........!
Steven.
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Post by DaveC on Feb 1, 2011 15:33:01 GMT
Hipshot make nifty gadget called a "Tremsetter", which is great for bringing a Strat back into tune after moving the vibrato. It should fit onto most Strats without any modification --- but just occasionally you have to make a small hole inside the spring compartment to make clearance for the piston.
Try Allparts for Hipshot supplies.
Dave C.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Feb 1, 2011 20:21:43 GMT
Hi Dave,
I have used a Tremsetter and while it worked as it was supposed to, I found it unsuitable for use where a vibrato needs to be applied gently to a note, it was too jerky.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by DaveC on Feb 1, 2011 21:03:07 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I wonder if it was set up exactly right --- they can be very fiddly to do but it's a one-off procedure.
I've got one fitted to my Roadhouse Strat and it works perfectly. I did have to drill that little hole though.
Dave C.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Feb 1, 2011 22:52:26 GMT
Hi Dave,
It was installed set up correctly by Bill Puplett and worked fine for what it was supposed to do but I just didn't like the notched feel at the centre position. Without that feel, the Tremsetter won't work as it was intended to do.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by DaveC on Feb 4, 2011 14:19:12 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Yes I see (feel?) what you mean. It was the word "gently" that fooled me (I had to look it up). I'm afraid my playing style is more Pete Townsend than Hank B.
Although I installed my own Tremsetter, Bill once installed a Hipshot Trilogy for me. He's a cool guy.
Dave
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2011 14:22:04 GMT
After much puzzling over the return-to-pitch 'problem I was experiencing with my new Shadows Custom Ltd., I think that I've finally discovered the possible cause....................
I've just noticed that 3 of the strings were not sitting in the middle of the bridge saddles, but were 'riding' over the saddle-screw adjusting holes. These holes do have a slight lip/ridge and the strings must have been catching on these, instead of being able to move freely across the smooth, central area of the saddle.
Feel stupid for not having noticed this before........!
On a different topic, Tremsetters....................?
Some years back, I bought a new Strat. Plus which had one of these fitted as standard. Like Charlie, I just couldn't get on with it and didn't like the 'feel' it gave to the trem. action. I must have fiddled about with it for ages, adjusting things back & forth, to no avail. In the end, I removed it and replaced it with a 'normal' claw. Problem solved.........................
Steven.
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;D
