Argentina_Is UB Hank in a different key?

[shadowsRmagic]

I'm trying to learn Don't Cry For Me Argentina using UB Hank BT and tabs which seem to be in sync, but when I try to play along with the original shads recording to pick up more detail it appears to be in a different key, can anyone help or is it my ears?

[Deleted]

Hi I am not sure about tabs I don't use them, but I am pretty sure the original key is D. I would think there must be someone on the site that can answer your question fully.
Regards, Graham

[sixchannel]

It is indeed in D. WHo's tab are you using as there is no UBH tab.
The reason I ask is that there once was a tab done in Eb which was weird, and of course incorrect. I thought it had disappeared years ago.
cheers
ian

[markrgv]

Yes i noticed this years ago when learning it on the UB Hank disc.
The original seemed to be slightly different key.

But i've only ever seen Hank play it live - both on his own and with the Shads - in the key of D.

[Gary Allen]

Hi , Both versions should be in the key of D. The string of hits version might be off key so try a later version........gary

[TonyL]

Hi

I also found the same problem with Riders in the Sky. I can't remember if the Shads version was a half tone lower than the backing track or half a tone higher. What I did was load the original into Audacity and resave in the same key as the backing track.

[Gary Allen]

Hi Tony, Riders was sped up to make it more lively.It was done on tape so this would have changed the key ....Argentina may have been slowed down....The applause on string of hits version comes from a cliff concert and was decided over a bottle of wine by Hank and Brian in the studio....they may have drank too much ;D Gary

[spikestevens]

If the tempo in the Eb version is slightly faster it could be that the track was speeded (sped?) up slightly?

Just thinking about that, imagine if someone slowed down 'Apache' and we all had to play it in G#m!! ;D




Edit. Just seen Gary's reply.

[Gary Allen]

I just listened to Argentina off Abbey Road album and its very slow so I think that too was speeeeeeed up instead of being slowed down for string of hits.....gary

[sixchannel]

Jan 26, 2011 16:58:20 GMT sixchannel said:

It is indeed in D. WHo's tab are you using as there is no UBH tab.
The reason I ask is that there once was a tab done in Eb which was weird, and of course incorrect. I thought it had disappeared years ago.
cheers
ian

I'm answering my own question here. The Tab must have been done from the "S O H" recording. I dont think it would be much fun to play in Eb.
Nowadays we can speed up or slow down recordings at will without losing the Key - Adobe is good at it and I guess many others too. If you are going to do it, AND / OR use it to change a Key by a semitone or so, use the WAV rather than an mp3 as it comes out so much better.
cheers
ian

[Andy Cook]

On Goran Tangriing's site he has two backing tracks for Don't cry for me Argentina

One says Eb 1979
One says D

goran.tangring.com/

Interesting
Best regards
Andy

[malcolm]

I'm possibly way off the mark here but i remember seeing the Shads live in concert at the time Argentina was being recorded, and remember Bruce actually having to re-tune his guitar to a different key before they played it live. (these were the days before they had a multitude of instruments on hand). I just wondered if it may have been possible that due to re-tuning in the studio the track could of been actually recorded slightly "flat" ?

Malcolm

[Gary Allen]

Hi Malcolm, I think Bruce detuned the top E to a D for some shows in the 80s for that tune.....gary

[sixchannel]

Jan 26, 2011 18:58:06 GMT Andy Cook said:

On Goran Tangriing's site he has two backing tracks for Don't cry for me Argentina

One says Eb 1979
One says D

goran.tangring.com/

Interesting
Best regards
Andy

Hi Andy
Probably for that very reason as discussed. However, Goran shows his Tab and Chords against the wrong one - they are the Tab and Chords to the D key version. I've dropped him a note. (probably Eb to D ;D ;D )
cheers
ian

[shadowsRmagic]

Thanks to everybody for all your advice/hints/tips, I've just finished reading them all and I can't believe the overwhelming level of replies, although I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised as I normally log in on a daily basis.

I have 5 versions: At Abbey Road, Complete singles As & Bs, The first 40 years, The original chart hits 1960-1980 and String of hits, I've been following the String of Hits original and will now change to The first 40 years version.

Thanks again to everyone from this brilliant membership.

[sixchannel]

Jan 26, 2011 19:40:49 GMT sixchannel said:

Goran shows his Tab and Chords against the wrong one - they are the Tab and Chords to the D key version. I've dropped him a note. (probably Eb to D ;D ;D )
cheers
ian

[/b][/quote]

He's fixed it now. Good for you Goran!
cheers
ian

[metrostrum]

Hi,

Argentina was the first Shads tune I learned to play when I bought my first Strat and I was playing along to the track from a seemingly " live"version on a vinyl LP and using the UBH tab.

I was definitely out of sync against the recorded version. Being a relatively new player then I was rather confused. A friend suggested I shift by a fret and I sounded OK.

This thread seems to explain what was happening! Thanks

Mike

[wattybluesman]

Play along with the records and try to pick out the notes learn to squeeze strings up to notes etc.I remember when I was learning to play I used hum or whistle the part I then tried to play what I was humming I used to drive my mum crazy.
When you are learning to squeeze up to notes play the actual note first that you are trying to reach teach your ear what you are trying to achieve .
I used teach guitar in college and a lot of the young bucks would come in and say I've learned this or that from the tabs but it's not the same as the record(I then had to learn tabs to find out what was going on.)
I'm from the old school of playing the record a hundred times till I got it right I hate Tabs the pupils they would also squeeze notes but not up to the note they were trying to play but they thought it was fine until I pointed out it wasn't the right note,they just couldn't hear it wasn't quite right.
Also try and listen to all kinds of music and soak it all up.
WattyBluesman.
P.s I don't read either.

[shadowsRmagic]

Thanks for the tips wattybluesman, I started playing again 18 months ago after a break of about 40 years and even then not to a very good standard. Like you I prefer to play the record and as I can't read music, only refer to the tabs as a guide to starting position e.g. 3rd string 2nd fret or 4th string 7th fret, and chord shapes.
In the case of Argentina I would have had trouble without the tabs as the UB Hank BT is in a different key to the String of Hits version.