Creating Backing Tracks

[streetboy]

Hi,

This should probably be in the Tips & Tricks section.

I the Sound Files Section->Golden Street, Dave mentions that he created the backing track from the original Shadows track removing Hank using Cool Edit Pro.

Would it be possible to have somebody providing general guidance on how to do this or? I have the tools (Cool Edit/Audition) but am a newbie when it comes to using them.

rgds
Soren

[tonybiker]

I will say this about editing original recordings to remove guitar or vocals and look for someone to convince me otherwise! I will say its impossible to remove a guitar sound from a recording and thats all you do remove. If that was the case then there would be zero need for backing track production. Experiment is fine, but to purchase software to do it is wasting money. I know a number of members will now bounce on me for this statement, but having spent hours trying using a shed load of different software, I remain with the view it can't be done.

[Charlie Hall]

The basic principle of removing the centre part of a stereo image is to reverse the phase the left or right channel, not both, then mix the two in mono, and balancing the 2 until the maximum amount is removed. The problem is that with the bass drum and bass guitar often in the centre, they get cancelled out as well.
There may be one or two other ways but I haven't tried them.
Regards,
Charlie

[asimmd]

I agree with Tonybiker on this one.

I waited with baited breath the arrival of Jamvox,touted as the be all and end all of removal tools,and while it works to a certain degree,especialy on the tracks they hand picked for the demo's,I am still waiting for someone to come on here and tell us how wonderful it is,any volunteers?
Seriously,if you need a backing track,buy it,write it or get someone to do it for you,it really is the only foolproof way.

Alan

[streetboy]

Hi Guys,

I really posted this to challenge the community. I have never myself succeded in creating backing tracks by just trying to remove lead guitar or any other instrument - it always kind of ruined the remaining parts as Charlie also states.

But on the other hand I don't claim to know everything when it comes to sound editing. So if anybody had found the solution I'd just like to know how - if that somebody was willing to publish the solution.

I agree with Allan that you should either use backing tracks (what I've done) created by really skillled people or create your own from scratch.

rgds
Soren

[ha2he]

Hi Charlie & Friends,

Not wishing to put a negative mood on this, but out of curiosity, is this legal ?

If I recall correctly, many moons ago, Sony had a bit of a conundrum, they were selling machines capable of recording from any source, yet at the same time saying it was illegal to do so because they also owned the rights to most of the material being recorded. Of course when they realized they were making more from the sale of the machines and the recording media, it got forgotten. I'm sure there were many others providing the machines and media but maybe not the same interest in the rights.

Fast Forward (no pun intended) about 40 or so years we have at our disposal a vast array of software and hardware to manipulate sound files.

Personally I'm not bothered one way or the other but I can imagine there will be those who are, as I type a thought about backing track artists goes through my mind.

I appreciate the sampling thing that goes on now and is usually agreed between rights owners and there is usually a spin off or two and I guess mutually agreeable.

I suppose the defining line is whether it is for home or public use.

Just some thoughts,
Regards,
Tim.

[olemuso]

I seem to remember some early mono recordings were remixed into a sort of pseudo-stereo and the lead guitar was panned far left of the mix. It was therefore easy to remove the lead, but if memory serves me I think the reverb and echoes from the lead part were panned to the right and that made it sound pretty weird.
I`ll have a rummage around and see if I can find any...

[Charlie Hall]

I think there must be some aspect of this that is subject to law. It would probably be dangerous to offer any for sale so I will not encourage that on this site. If members wish to share backing tracks made in this way with others, please do it by email.

Some of the Shadows and other early stereo mixes had instruments panned in a way that is not considered normal these days. I can't remember any specific examples but I know there are a few.
There is a free VST plugin called C_SuperStereo that would be interesting to use for changing the panned image.

Regards,
Charlie

[5tratocaster]

Hi Soren,
I notice nobody has yet answered your question (i.e. told how it can be done with Cool Edit Pro or Adobe Audition).
I have both these programs and would also like to have a stab at removing the lead guitar on some tracks (just for my own benefit). I know the results are not going to be great, but listening to the demo tracks on the TRS web site I think it would be worth a try (they used Audition). I own a great many professionally recorded backing tracks and I have to say the quality is variable, some being very accurate reproductions and some being downright misleading to play along with because they stray too much from the original.
For those poor ones, I would like to try to create a replacement myself using the original material.
So come on all those experts, please tell us how it's done.
Geoff

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Geoff,
My post #2 explained the principle of how I would do it, although I have Sonar and not the programs you have. If either of those have the facility to reverse the phase of a track, proceed as follows.
Import the stereo track into the editor program.
Mix the stereo track to 2 separate mono tracks. Keep the mono tracks panned exactly to the centre. Reverse the phase of one of the tracks (this is the important part, if there is no phase reversal it won't work).
Mute the original stereo track. Play the two mono tracks and balance the levels to give the maximum cancellation required to eliminate the lead instrument. If the bass is lacking (because it may have been in the centre of the mix as with just about every stereo recording), applying a shelving EQ to one of the tracks to reduce the bass below approximately 100Hz might help to restore some of the bass without exposing too much of the lead instrument again. A similar shelving EQ on the other track but boosted instead of cut will help further to restore lost bass.
If the lead instrument is panned hard right or left, this won't work and then the only way to eliminate it is to eliminate the track that contains the lead instrument and leave the remaining one as a mono backing track.
Pay attention to the level of any boosted track. If overload occurs you will have to reduce the level of both mono tracks by the same amount.
When the result is as you want it, mix the two mono tracks to a single mono track. Mute the two mono tracks and export the final mixed mono track.
Regards,
Charlie

[didier]

Jan 26, 2009 8:55:02 GMT streetboy said:

Hi,

This should probably be in the Tips & Tricks section.

I the Sound Files Section->Golden Street, Dave mentions that he created the backing track from the original Shadows track removing Hank using Cool Edit Pro.

Would it be possible to have somebody providing general guidance on how to do this or? I have the tools (Cool Edit/Audition) but am a newbie when it comes to using them.

rgds
Soren

With Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro) you have to select "Effects", then "Filters", and then "Vocal Remove", but it will not work with all recordings, depending on how they have been recorded and mixed.
I works only if the recording is stereo, with the lead in full mono (same phase and amplitude on both channels) and the backing in real stereo.
It works with some Shadows' recordings but not all.
There are many other solist removers sofwares, such as "No Voice", and the recent "JamVox", but none works in all circumstances (they all work on the same principle).

There are also a few recordings with the solist on one channel, and backing on the other. Then extraction is easy...

When generating such BT, it's legal to use them for private use, it would be much less legal tu use it for public performances...

Didier

[olemuso]

There is one foolproof way of removing lead vocals, lead guitar or indeed, any part you wish. That is to obtain access to the original multitrack recording and edit it yourself.
However, I wish you the very Best Of British Luck in this endeavor :lol:

[tonybiker]

There is a way to produce a backing track without the need of trying to edit out instruments or vocals from an original recording or having to play them yourself, more so when its almost impossible and given the low cost of good backing tracks.

I have used a method when I can't find a backing track. Plus its fun as well. I will be suggesting two software programmes you will need, one being Guitar Pro and the other Mixcraft, but those who have Adobe or other recording software will not need Mixcraft.

Both of my suggested software come with free trials. So it wont cost you a penny to try it out. I have run a search on the site for Guitar Pro and can't find any posts, so I will presume that you don't know what it is. This post is suitable for new players and anyone who likes to experiment. I hope you find this useful.

I will start with GUITAR PRO.

You can download a trial by going to this link:

www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php

Its a full working programme but without the RST efffects. RST effects are the virtual instruments and effects that you get with the full copy. The trial programme uses midi and with the exception of the drums and bass, the rest of the instruments are naff. But most just need bass and drums anyway.

We all use guitar tab and spend time searching for it. Guitar Pro tab is different because it is a multitrack tablature editor for guitar, banjo and bass. Besides writing scores, Guitar Pro is a useful resource for guitarists from beginner to experienced levels to progress , compose , or simply accompany themselves.

Once you have the programme installed and found your Guitar Pro tab, 911tab is a good site to find it, you open the tab up to not just read it, but to listen to it, complete with all the other instruments and vocals. So what you hear is the full song or tune. You can then click on any instrument thats playing and read the tab or print it off. Its great for anyone learning a new song or tune.

You can also change the instruments. So for example, on vocals, you can change vocal to guitar and it works out the tab for you which you can then simply print off. Or change the bass from fretless to picked, and so on.

As you advance with experience you can then add your own score to the tune.

What I use it for is for drum and bass tracks. If we take Theme for Young Lovers Guitar Pro Tab, there are 4 instruments that are playing. IE: X 2 guitar, drums and bass. If you mute both guitars then all you hear is drums and bass. So if you play lead guitar and your mate plays bass, where can you find a backing track with just drums and bass?

It is then a simple task of using recording software to record it and then save as an mp3, wav etc file. Its a simple and easy way to make your own backing track.

For those who are new to Guitar Pro I suggest you download it and play about with it. For any new players, you will find it the most useful tool you will ever buy.

There are thousands of tabs available. Link to 911tab is:

www.911tabs.com/tabs/t/the_shadows/

Out of the tabs available, its Guitar Pro or Power tabs that you need. Power tab does open in Guitar Pro and converts the format to Guitar Pro.

If you now want to record and burn your own mp3 backing tracks you will need some recording and editing software. And there are plenty. I use 'Mixcraft' and if your new to recording then its easy to use. A free trial is available at this link:

www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/

I have uploaded a movie to youtube which shows you how to make a backing track using Guitar Pro and Mixcraft. I have used Theme for Young Lovers as the example, taking you from the original Guitar Pro tab sounds to a drum and bass backing track with some effects added, reverb and compression. You will find the youtube at this link:

uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ogIMzUad8GE

PLEASE be patient and let the movie run. The full track of Theme for Young Lovers in Guitar Pro Format is awful, but it will get to the part your most interested in, a backing track! The sound quality is nothing great on youtube so bear that in mind.

Once you have your backing track on Mixcraft then all you need to do once your happy with the sound is to save it as a backing track in mp3 etc, or you can play your guitar into your PC and play your lead on to a different track. Add effects etc and then burn off your completed tune. I know a lot here already record and to an advanced level, but my intention with this post was to give a helping hand to those new or newish to recording and how to make a simple backing track.


If you were to buy both programmes then you will get change from £100.

Hope you find this useful but if I can help further PM me.