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Post by Amanda Hambidge on Feb 26, 2009 16:19:07 GMT
Hi All,
An interesting thing about "sag" I actually metered the HT on my rebuilt AC15CC with an EZ81 and a 270 ohm limiting resistor in each anode, while Ecca was playing flat out and the HT line remained virtually constant throughout the performance, so I'm not convinced there is that much "sag" although again it will depend on the amount of use the rectifier has had.
Amanda
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Post by alanmckillop on Feb 26, 2009 19:03:18 GMT
The guy who runs the site is John Campbell (a lovely guy) and can be contacted via email at johnno AT penumbra.co.nz replacing AT by @
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Post by Charlie Hall on Feb 26, 2009 19:12:15 GMT
Hi Paul, I think you are right about the black and white pics being an Echomatic 2. The site is run by John Campbell and the home page is: www.penumbra.co.nz/Regards, Charlie
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Post by Charlie Hall on Feb 26, 2009 19:18:10 GMT
Hi Amanda, What was the HT voltage that you measured? Regards, Charlie
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Post by Amanda Hambidge on Feb 26, 2009 21:16:06 GMT
Hi Charlie,
318v on the centre tap connection of the o/p transformer, I'll have to try it again with my AC15 clone when I next take it to the club!
Amanda
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Post by Charlie Hall on Feb 27, 2009 0:49:56 GMT
Hi Amanda, That's close to normal for an old AC15 I think. Even if the rectifier has no sag the added resistors should cause it. If there is no sag it would imply that the amp is running true Class A but I don't think it's likely at that voltage unless the output valves are drawing way more current than they should be at that voltage. The real test is to read the voltage with no signal and compare with full output, I suppose you already did that. Regards, Charlie
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Post by fenderplucker on Feb 27, 2009 2:14:47 GMT
Hi Charlie, Alan,
Thanks for the info, I have e-mailed John to see if the "All the Gear..." site can be updated,
Paul.
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Post by Amanda Hambidge on Feb 27, 2009 14:26:19 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I've got the parts to build a dummy load for amp testing, it's just a case of putting it all together.
While I'm typing this a thought has just popped into my head, how would a voice coil do as a dummy load?
It has the right impedance and inductance as well, so it would probably load the amp more correctly than a resistor!
Regarding the HT voltage for the AC15 you are right it is 3 volts above, one of the reasons for using the 270 ohm resistors was to bring down the HT voltage from over 350 volts with the stock "CC" transformer.
The 120 ohm original AC15CC cathode resistor has been replaced with a 130 ohm one as in the original AC15 circuit.
Amanda
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Post by Charlie Hall on Feb 27, 2009 23:02:40 GMT
Hi Amanda, I know that others have used voice coils as dummy loads but to my mind, without the magnet and cone, it isn't a complete representation of a real speaker load and impedance. Even the cabinet loading has an effect. The voice coil after all, is much the same as a wirewound resistor on its own. Regards, Charlie
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Post by gorgeousgeorge on Mar 25, 2009 15:33:41 GMT
dear gents as a newcomer to shadmusic and stratocasters I ask if people with experience and/or knowledge can indicate how much the tone settings on the actual guitars influenced the final sound.The difference in a half twist of the tone control is significant. Also I'm contemplating mounting a TBX (with mod).Has anyone fitted one of these and with what result? in anticipation
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Post by Charlie Hall on Mar 25, 2009 16:59:28 GMT
The TBX control is confusing. The blurb says that you get the normal tone at the halfway rotation and below, and treble boost set higher than half. This is not true, you get less treble than you had before when the control is on half. It would need to be set to 7 or 8 to approximate the original full tone on sound. I wouldn't fit one. As far as I know it was designed around the time the Lace Sensor pickups came out so maybe it works better with those. What I said above will still apply though. Regards, Charlie
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Post by bor64 on Apr 27, 2009 22:08:24 GMT
Jay ,I ask Hank(during a 45 minutes interview) about his old sound/new sound. He told me he wanted always the best possible sound technical wise for his ears and taste.. The most modern equipment was used at those time(s) available. In a natural way the talk landed on the topic that sound and that book....Hank face changed in a jiffy and he wasn't looking happy I can tell you! He said "those people annoys me,they don't know what they are talking about etc...." The Gretsch V Strat theories made a large impact on most shadsites back then and also little nowdays....it keeps coming up as a topic. I had multiple discussions with Roberto and a few more people some of them got ugly to wards me so I did stop sending my sound files.....this was the last one I made back then. www.4shared.com/file/101672212/5f08cc62/Apache-RobDeze_is_het.htmlJust one go and one take alongside the shads on one channel with a old strat,echo,amp,cheap mike and a portable MD. It made some members changes camps back then ;D Rob
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Post by laurie on Apr 28, 2009 0:11:41 GMT
Hi gentlemen,
I am a newbie to this forum. Let me introduce myself. I drop my guitar playing some 40 years ago due to certain reasons. Now I had retired and bought a vintage Strat last March. I've searched the internet for echo unit that similar to Hank's echo sound. Does any guys there can give me some advice, which is the closest sound on the market which is avaiable. Due to my financial condition, it must not too expansive. Cheers Laurie
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 0:51:15 GMT
HI LAURIE & welcome ,I suggest you look back in the messages & you will find many many recomendations as to the various units with the ability to have shadow's patches loaded into them,& you will find something to suit your budget!!!!!!, You are in the right place on this site for advise on shads sound ,........
CHEERS laurie ............barry..
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 28, 2009 12:31:50 GMT
Hi Laurie, Not sure what your maximum budget would be. Probably the best sounding echo for the least money would be the Yamaha Magicstomp with my echo programs installed. The only problem is that the Magicstomp is no longer made and they are hard to find even secondhand. I sell my Magicstomp programs by email for the owner to install. The cost is £25GBP. I have sold hundreds of sets of programs for these and as far as I know everyone is happy with them. Regards, Charlie
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Post by bill on Apr 28, 2009 13:43:23 GMT
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jay
Member
Posts: 233
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Post by jay on Apr 28, 2009 21:10:00 GMT
Hello Rob....thanks for bringing the thread back on track 45 minute interview with HBM, how did you achieve that? I think that's fair comment from Hank i.e. he always uses the best gear available whether back in 1959 or in the present. However, I think he is guilty of not paying enough attention to his solid fan base. I'm willing to bet that the majority of fans are after the early sound. Personally I don't much listen to his later stuff. If I'm correct then most of the guitar playing fans are after the early sound (the nostalgia effect...which is huge). Now if this is so then he should join the rest of us in trying to create it. I mean from what I've heard there are some excellent reproductions of that sound, better than he has judging from my viewing of some live videos. But he chooses not to do so...fair enough. But I'm certain that if he really set about replicating his early sound then obviously he would beat anyone out there. Why he didn't do a first half concert doing just that (producing his early sound) I don't know. He could then in the second half do as he does now (or did?) Anyway I listened to your version of "Apache" and it is very good, like it a lot. If you used the original Shadows recording for the backing track, how did you eliminate Hank's guitar? Also, apart from the old strat which echo unit and amp did you use. Would be interested to hear about it....bet I'm not the only one! regards, Jay
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2009 10:04:41 GMT
HI JAY & ROB & ALL,,,THATS a nice version of apache & it will be interesting to hear what the echo unit used was because he has a 12 string type effect that is short delay after the dry sound before the actual echo as we know it to be ,nice ''gallop'' ..''charlie will notice the effect''& maybe comment? ?? CHEERS ALL.................barry..
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 30, 2009 13:24:48 GMT
To me, it sounded as though Rob was playing along with the original track, without Hank removed. Could Rob please confirm yes or no? Regards, Charlie
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Post by laurie on Apr 30, 2009 15:13:36 GMT
HI LAURIE & welcome ,I suggest you look back in the messages & you will find many many recomendations as to the various units with the ability to have shadow's patches loaded into them,& you will find something to suit your budget!!!!!!, You are in the right place on this site for advise on shads sound ,........ CHEERS laurie ............barry.. Hi Barry and Charlie, Due to my ignorance in operating with computer such as to find my own thread in this forum. Not untill a moment ago I've found my thread and responses from you guys to my message. Thank you all and I find this is an excellent site for Shads music. I also received some response from Robert and Jay on some good advices on the pedals. I've really learned a lot. Cheers Laurie
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Post by bor64 on Apr 30, 2009 22:25:48 GMT
Well folks, thanks for taking the time to listen and commend on my sound file. I panned the original track, shads incl Hank to one channel and my humble try on the other. I've also have a version with Hank almost wiped out, just used a PC pro gramme cool edit pro v. 2.0....used the option vocal cut and played with the setting + versus - on both channels to cancel Hank. This version was made on request by some folks regarding the Gretsch V Strat hipe.... The Italy Gretsch fan base was very silent after this sound file ....some of the British folks where not a good sport and become abusive to wards me defending there "apache champion"......who in my ears is still far away from the original sound. I played alongside Hank so you can hear both guitars are so insinc tone wise,sustain wise etc to proof it was a strat and not a Gretsch. I must have a version laying somewhere(remember it was years ago when it was a topic), where Hanks was almost wiped out,except some post reverb/echo shadowing in the recording,I added my playing and you can hear that my strat fill in the open sound spectrum so spot on that the sound blended seamless.... The stuff I used is no magic or secret my original 58 strat (yes original f red ) strung 14 -62. Q2 with Charlie's magic inside. 60's AC 30 Cheap Mic and a portable Sony MD recorder. One Take one go...so no PC or other magic afterwards... The 12 string chorus effect is just because the two guitars are so close in harmony sound wise the chorus effect came alive.... a 45 minutes interview was done in Norwich during one of the last Hank solo tour. The interview was done for the Dutch Cliff and Shads fan club Move It. We had 15 minutes but Hank had great time so he kept talking.... Hank invited us for the sound check so it was a thrill! Hope this clear something,please let me know if you want more info or a comment I can only learn from you. Thanks Rob
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jay
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Post by jay on Apr 30, 2009 23:38:10 GMT
Hi again Rob,
Could you dig out the old recording where you sent HBM waaaaaay into the background so I can hear how that sounds....please.
Also would you also translate the phrase "videre non videri" please?
Thanks, Jay
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Post by Charlie Hall on Apr 30, 2009 23:59:23 GMT
Hi Rob, Thanks for your interesting answer. Regards, Charlie
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2009 4:35:02 GMT
HI LAURIE,I can go along on the computer expertese as I am only coming to grips with the confounded things after 3-4 years of frustration mistakes glitches etc etc ,,BUT saying that it is the best tool I own now retired & trying to learn the guitar ''more''.. THE computer has led me to this wonderfull site & some others & has made my reborn hobbie a joy to do in my old age 69, &-70 in a few weeks!!!!but still 21 at heart HA.HAAR.
ENJOY YOUR GUITAR laurie & you ''WILL'' find the friends,,, charlie & members very honest& helpfull TO YOU!....................cheers........barry..
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Post by bor64 on May 1, 2009 15:46:59 GMT
Jay,the frace "videre non videri" is latin for "seeing but not being seen" on my avatar you can reed the latin frace... It was yell from the first squad of the Royal Dutch Airforge the "The Ghost Squad".
I'm going leaving home,tonight for a short holiday so when we return at the end of next week.... I'll try to find that recording without Hank.
Charlie any comment on the sound,with your excellent ears? Please let me know your verdict,I can only learn from it.
Thanks folks.
Regards Rob
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Post by Charlie Hall on May 1, 2009 17:00:02 GMT
Hi Rob, As far as I could tell, it sounded good. I would have a much better idea if Hank was removed. Regards, Charlie
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Post by laurie on May 2, 2009 8:00:04 GMT
HI LAURIE,I can go along on the computer expertese as I am only coming to grips with the confounded things after 3-4 years of frustration mistakes glitches etc etc ,,BUT saying that it is the best tool I own now retired & trying to learn the guitar ''more''.. THE computer has led me to this wonderfull site & some others & has made my reborn hobbie a joy to do in my old age 69, &-70 in a few weeks!!!!but still 21 at heart HA.HAAR. ENJOY YOUR GUITAR laurie & you ''WILL'' find the friends,,, charlie & members very honest& helpfull TO YOU!....................cheers........barry.. Good morning Barry, I think I have the same feeling as you that I came to this wonderful site by learning computer. Guys here are really helpful and all have big hearts and open mind. The best is, I feel not alone during my age with all you guitar fans. Yeah, I feel like 21 now. Cheers to all, have a great weekend Laurie
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Post by martyn on May 2, 2009 9:42:00 GMT
I confess I don't understand even a small percentage of the technical blurb in the above replies, but it's plain there are those of you who do, which is great.
For a non-techie like me, is there a relatively simple shopping list of goodies I could save up for that will reproduce the sounds I seek? There seem to be so many variables that I find it difficult to see the wood for the trees - I'd find it so helpful to have a guide or collection of options grouped together such as:
1. 'Vintage' Strat (which?) made in US/Mex/Japan with ? pickups/strings.
2. Vox AC15/30/ - early/later/re-issue/Valvetronix-type.
3. Alternative makes of amp that might simulate the Vox tones just as well.
4. Effects units that provide the nearest authentic echoes/reverb, either original or modern digital copies.
Maybe that's being overly simplistic but many of us don't have the funds to buy gear worth thousands of pounds and often aren't sure which to be looking for anyway, so if a relatively simple recipe of suggested combinations/options from all or any of the above (or others I've not thought of) could be compiled and maybe sub-headed into timelines of the Shads' studio sounds, I'd have some chance of knowing roughly in which direction I should be aiming.
Similarly, some equipment only sounds 'right' when turned up loud at live sessions, some can only be miked for home recording whilst others have the facilities to bypass/switch out the speakers for that purpose. I've been looking at buying an amp for live use but also that would do for home recording and I just don't now which way to turn, which is why I thought of the shopping list idea. Maybe that's not possible, given the variables involved, and perhaps I'm naive to think it is, but it would make life a lot easier for so many of us if it worked.
PS - I should add that I have a Magicstomp with Charlie's superb patches, a TonelabLE and the Mexican strat you see in my avatar, which we think has tex-mex p/ups, so I'm sort of getting there slowly. I've debated buying a second strat, but which one and which amp had brought about my thoughts above. Maybe I should have started a fresh thread with this suggestion but it only occurred to me as I was trawling through the technical stuff here.
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jay
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Post by jay on May 2, 2009 11:23:33 GMT
Hi Martyn, I'll second that idea. It would be v. useful for future "grail seekers" to have access to a basic starter kit info section if you like and would save them trawling through loads of relevant posts to glean info. Anybody asking the inevitable questions would be able to find a good starting point and if not, could be directed accordingly. Personally I'm using a Fender Classic 50s (MIM)/Vox Tonelab/MS2EFTP and running it through a Marshall 9200/2x12 which I've had for years. I'm happy with the set-up but only play at home. regards, Jay P.S. "If we post Charlie will speak...."
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Post by martyn on May 2, 2009 11:35:40 GMT
Hi Jay, That's exactly what I had in mind. You went for a Classic 50s presumably based upon opinions and advice from others - I bought mine because I liked the colours and presumed, in my ignorance, a strat was a strat. I bought my first in the 1960s and there weren't any choices of where they were made, which p/ups, which shape neck - they all came from the USA and the only options back then were which colour you wanted and possibly a maple or rosewood neck. Now it's a whole new ball game . . .
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