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Post by bndct16 on Jul 23, 2012 23:32:04 GMT
Here's THE problem : I got 3 guitars : - Fender USA AS/FSR 2011 Limited Ed. ( Fender Light strings ) - Squier CLASSIC VIBE 50 ( my prefered ! ) ( D'arrario 011-049 ) - Squier 20th anniversary/VIBE 60 ( Fender Light strings ) Passing thru : - Digitech RP250 ( AC15 emulation , ... ) Passing thru : - Zoom 508 ( EFTP ) and/or - Q20 + Jpathes Amplified by : - VOX AC30 CC2X Top Boost ( tubes, Alnico BLUE )... and I CAN'T GET THAT SOUND !!! Does someone give a help  Specially about VOX Top Boost settings ? Thx. |
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Post by erikMAMS on Jul 24, 2012 6:32:13 GMT
Any of your Fenders should do (althought I don't know what AS/FRS means?), but IMO the heavier strings the better. I wonder what you are using the Digitech for - there's no need for additional amp emulation when you go into the real things (AC30). I would go guitar > Zoom508 (or Q20, not both) > AC30. "That Sound" is not an unambiguous term, as it developed through the years, but for the early sound try: TB channel (EQ to standard) Bass and Treble controls turned fully down (for a start) Control the high/shrill treble with the Cut control to taste - there's a narrow range around 75-85% up where the shrill treble goes away, but the sound is still bright AND FULL on the high notes. For the early sound I'd also recommend you find/build a Cutting Edge filter to place between the guitar and the echo (a must really IMO). Oh, and - turn up the volume as high as you can and whack the strings hard  Let us know how you progress. Erik |
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Jul 24, 2012 9:03:48 GMT
...also, bear in mind that what you hear coming from your hifi speakers isn't exactly what was coming out of their amp speaker, so you're trying to emulate Hank Marvin + Abbey Road, without having an 'Abbey Road' pedal. More often than not, what you hear on youtube has a fair bit more trickery added to the recording that's difficult to do with a live sound.
Don't lose too much sleep over that last 5-10% on a live sound.
Good luck.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by bndct16 on Jul 24, 2012 13:57:02 GMT
Many thanks to both of you.
My tests are the first released "Apache" and "Mustang"...
I will try what you suggest.
My AC30-CC2X is a brand new one, made in " VOX China Factory under VOX GB R&d supervision "...
The RP250 is only used as equalizer with the AC15 settings.
The Zoom508 and the Q20 are switchable and both may be bypassed.
NOTE : AS stands for American Standard and FSR for Factory Special Run
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Post by erikMAMS on Jul 24, 2012 15:16:52 GMT
You will probably have a hard time getting the original Apache record sound (most have, and the subject has been debatted for years - also remember Julians comments), but you should be able to get close to Mustang - even in a live situation.
OK - but what AC15 settings do you refer to? If it's the steep low end roll off, standard EQ's or high pass filters will not do the same as the 4th order Cutting Edge filter. I honestly believe the CE filter or similar is essential. You can build it yourself for a few bucks.
Erik
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Post by bndct16 on Jul 24, 2012 23:48:15 GMT
to ERIK
Using my favorite SQUIER CLASSIC VIBE 50 + strings 11-49,
I followed your suggestions...
Locked AC30 equalizer a start point, giving TB volume +/- 50 %, setting tonecut +/- 80 %... and I was very close to the goal.
Then, added RP250, ( AC15, Warm, Sustain 20-10-20, Hall 20 ) and get the best results I ever had !!! )
Without this RP250, sound looks flat !
For my poor old ears... of course !
I'm comparing MY sound with THAT sound from YouTube ( original Black&White Apache recording (?)( Jet Harris picking his cigarette from his bass neck ) and Mustang horses running still image )
One more step ! With you help...
But not yet THE goal...
One day at a time.
Good evening... from CANADA !
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Post by erikMAMS on Jul 25, 2012 5:59:20 GMT
OK, glad to hear you have some progress. How about posting a sound sample for us to hear?
I'm not familiar with the RP250, but if it works for you it's fine. IMO the easiest way to get (close to) That Sound is to keep things as simple as possible - ie guitar>echo>amps. My thinking/experience with amp emulation (from the RP250 or others digital devices) is that it shouldn't really be necessary when you have the luxury of plugging into a real (Vox) amp. It's kind of adding a "Strat emulation" after your real Strat ;D. Also IME digital devices, as nice as they may be, always change the basic tone from the guitar one way or the other - and for that reason I prefer to keep the dry part of the signal chain out of the digital domain these days, but that's probably just me.
Once again I'll recommend the analog CE filter for the early sound.
Erik
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Jul 25, 2012 7:14:43 GMT
I'd go along with what Erik says, but I'd go further and say I wouldn't use an amp emulator if I was then going through ANY amp - whatever amp you use will colour the emulation, so it wouldn't sound right, anyway. Amp sims, for my money, are strictly for use direct to PA or recording device.
Like Erik, I'm not a fan of 'digitizing' my sound, so I do use the effect loop on my equipment and blend it back in with the original signal, BUT, I'm generally not going for a Shadows sound. I have found that the best route for an 'authentic' HBM sound is to go guitar/echo/amp/reverb on the occasions when I've done any Shadows material (recorded), with the echo and reverb using frequency filters (can't remember the settings off the top of my head).
Of course, the bit that everyone seems to overlook is that digital equipment is extremely clean these days, so unless you pay out serious money (TVS3 kind of money), the majority of units don't add the lowfi element to the overall sound and that's the hardest bit to recreate.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by didier on Jul 25, 2012 8:06:11 GMT
I'd go along with what Erik says, but I'd go further and say I wouldn't use an amp emulator if I was then going through ANY amp - whatever amp you use will colour the emulation, so it wouldn't sound right, anyway. Amp sims, for my money, are strictly for use direct to PA or recording device. Perfectly right, amp emulators are not at all intended to be used with guitar amps which already have their own sound, as guitar amps are not linear. The result would be to "add" two guitar amps sound ! Amps emulators are designed to give a guitar amp sound when used with a linear amplification. Didier |
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Post by Tone on Jul 25, 2012 13:43:06 GMT
Whilst I would certainly agree in principle with the various comments that amp simulation shouldn't be used in conjunction with a real amp I have to say that I've found that using the various Vox amp simulations in my recently acquired Tonelab LE into a Vox AC15 Heritage can give some (to me) very pleasing results........... but not THE sound, of course!
Cheers.
Tony
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Jul 25, 2012 14:31:09 GMT
Tony,
I wouldn't disagree with you on that. What I (and Didier) are saying is that if you're using an AC30 sim for example and then going through an amplifier, you should not expect the result to sound like an AC30. It'll sound like an AC30 being fed through whatever amp you're using.
As with all types of effects (which is essentially what amp modelling is) you can get some spectacular results if you're open minded and not afraid to experiment.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by bndct16 on Jul 27, 2012 1:07:26 GMT
Thanks to all the ones giving advices. Specially ERIC... with his AC30 tuning tips. I think it was my major problem... About another one suggesting an " Abdey Road Pedal " that's what I did ( or tried to ) and do with a RP-250. For the ones interested in my last programming, I join a screenshot of my RP-250. Now, I think I'm very very very close to THAT sound... I'm not a real musician, but an engineer trying to solve something funny... During my University years, I was "lead" (?) guitar of a band ... playing the SHADS !!! With a Geloso amp, an Echocord effect box and a Hofner guitar ! Now that I'm retired, I bought real Fender stuff, from 1 x Squier Classic Vibe 50, 1 x 20th anniversary, and 1 x real Fender Americam Standard ( Special Factory Run, Limited Edition ) plus 1 x Zoom-608, 3 x RP-250, 1 x Roland RE-201 and 2 x Q20 from Alesis... and a brand new VOX AC30-CC2X blue alnico. Now, I reached my goal... just in time... next month, I will have a surgery and surely I will lose my left hand fourth finger... if that happens, all my stuff will be for sale. Thanks to all of you... Attachments:
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Post by bndct16 on Jul 27, 2012 1:13:57 GMT
to DIDIER only and exclusively :
" le parigot, il n'a pas pu s'empecher de pousser son cocorico... rien de neuf sous le soleil depuis Louis 14. "
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Post by shawbridge on Jul 27, 2012 8:32:34 GMT
Hi ,
Keep it simple, the more gadjets the more you have to set right, certainly for early shads instros Hank only had guitar, amplifier, echo, but a Meazzi.
i use a USA strat, vox ac30, Magicstomp, also an Boss Me5 effects processor for recording just to make use only of the EQ setting and a tad of compression but not too much.
My AC30 is not set to the top boost, settings as looking from the front: left to right EQ bass 9 0 clock and treble 6 o clock,master volume full on then imput volume to taste, I don't use thetop boost volume at all.
vox is a CC2x blue alnico.
the amplifier is miked up for recording and I don't use computer software altho it has its benifits no doub't
I have found that if too much compression is used you loos the bite of the plectrum hbitting the strings and somehow doesn't sound too convincing, Hanks sound was and still is very, shall we say twangy/biting with very little compression if any at all.
Without wanting to promote my own posts, have a listen to my Gonzales and Find me a golden street they are fairly close to be honest but never perfect.
cheers
Peter
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Jul 27, 2012 9:42:33 GMT
DON'T PUT YOUR GEAR UP FOR SALE JUST YET
Two words - Django Reinhardt.
That's all, Julian
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Post by somebodyelseuk on Jul 27, 2012 9:44:24 GMT
In fact...
Four more
Tony Iommi
Graham Oliver
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Post by erikMAMS on Jul 27, 2012 9:51:38 GMT
bndct16 - I'm glad you have found the sound you've been looking for.
Good luck with the surgery, I hope it turns out well, and certainly not as fatal as you suggest.
Peter - I'm a bit puzzled by your post.
The Bass/Treble controls on AC30 CC2x's have no influence on the sound of the normal channel - as they are in the TB channel circuit. Only response shaping on the normal channel is the brilliance switch - and the cut control of course. Maybe I misunderstand your post?
Erik
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Post by betowelch on Jul 27, 2012 10:16:45 GMT
Thanks to all the ones giving advices. Now, I reached my goal... just in time... next month, I will have a surgery and surely I will lose my left hand fourth finger... if that happens, all my stuff will be for sale. Thanks to all of you... To bndct16: Just now I had look at this your post and knew about your improvements and problems with your left hand. Just to tell you that in the case of you will need to lost your fourth left finger (I hope no) this isn't the end of the world concerning your needs to be able to play your lead guitar. I can tell you this as I have a similar problem. I play without my fouth left finger.... as I can't use to play. This my finger it's "dead" due to my strong arthritis problem... And my music hobby is continuing and enjoying me..... Positive thinking...... Cheers from Brazil! Roberto |
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