The path to "That Sound"..how far do you go?

[jay]

Just been reading through Wim's extensive postings on his research into the Wonderful Land recording.

There are I suppose certain stages along the long and winding road to
the Shadowlands.....you begin by hearing the music and then setting about trying to recreate it for yourself and maybe fellow enthusiasts and anyone who wants to listen after that.

But as it seems to be a never ending road with lots of toll fees along the way I was wondering at what stage various people decide to get off, having either given up because they conclude that they'll never get to the end of it or become quite happy where they are and are a bit relieved to have given up the struggle.

I would say I'm not that far along the road....have a couple of v. nice Strats but nothing in Fiesta Red/Flamingo Pink with gold hardware..let alone a CS 1956 NOS or similar...no Vox AC15 replica or whatever....no expensive echo unit (yet). No DAW with all the latest plug-ins etc. etc. etc.

This is not to say that I may never be drawn into lusting after a Fender CS or MB and upgrading from the non-robust Magicstomp
but I don't think I'll ever be drawn into trying to catch up with Wim whose goal appears to be to recreate the exact sound of early 60's
Shadows recordings.

The best that can be done is to recreate the recorded sound of 50 year old Abbey Rd studio recordings which probably involved 2/3 dozen people including the Shads themselves in their production, using the latest technology. Personal satisfaction must be the reason for years of hard work and the result, unless I'm missing something, is that an exact copy of the original recordings will be produced. Unless I missed something else, I cannot see that there will be a live application for those who are entertainers. I suppose there will be a lot of people who also want to produce at home a replica recording but the reason for doing so cannot be simply musical enjoyment since we already have the original recordings....

How far do you go?

jay

[johnsmith]

Hi Jay,
A very good topic...how far do you go and where do you stop?

For me I have a Fiesta Red Squier Strat purchased from the well known auction site for £69 and a G2.1u also from the well known auction site purchased for £59 with Charlie's EFTP patches purchased for£15 from this site.
My amp is a Peavey Express 112 Transtube purchased from the well known auction site for £40.
The best sound I ever had was playing my guitar and G2.1u through a P.A. system at a mini gig in a local pub . Several punters including other guitar players complimented me on my authentic Shadows' sound!!!

As for recording I read a post on this site where someone mentioned connecting their guitar and G2.1u to a Hi Fi system. I tried this and noticed my old stack system had two inputs .One for my MP3 player which contains my Shads backing tracks and one for my G2.1u with my EFTP patches. If I inserted an audio cassette and pressed record I could play and record myself (but I have to do it in one take or else if I mess up I have to do it all again!)

The only frustration I have is I can't find a satisfactory sound for "Foot Tapper"but I'm working on it by tweaking the controls on my G2.1u (apparently the original recording was double tracked)

Apart form that I'm more than happy with my sound. The strings I use are 9's and I use a light pick ( I know purists insist on using thicker pick and heavier strings such as 11's or 12's but I can't get away with those so I stick to what I am comfortable with)
Mind you if I won the Lottery I'd go down the route of a Custom Shop Fiesta Red Fender Strat with Birdseye Maple neck and gold hardwear and a Vox ac 15 or ac 30 with either an Alesis Quadraverb or a TVS set up or Charlie's soon to be echo box........but that's another story !!!!


Regards,
John.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi John,
I think only the verses of Foot Tapper were double tracked.
Regards,
Charlie

[jay]

Hi John......you seem to be doing o.k. for under £200.00...I wonder if anyone can beat that? As I always say buy the best you can afford, then coming into a large amount of cash would definitely put an end once and for all to the question "Wonder what I would sound like if I had one each of this, that and the other...."

I do think that you can get pretty close to an acceptable sound without too much of an outlay, after that and if you have the money, then its probably more about nostalgia or buying nice looking gear.

Then there are the really obsessive types, as in every field, who will leave no stone unturned in an effort to inch ever nearer to the sound of those 50 year old records...which I love but even with unlimited funds I personally wouldn't try because it's been done once and need not be repeated. Of course if someone wants to do just that then that's fine. I suppose it's like climbing Everest after Hillary and Tensing.....

Went to the hospital for my scan results yesterday and was told.....

"I'm afraid you have a shadow on the left side of the brain."

I said....

"Does it look anything like Hank B. Marvin"..... (Grin)

Jay.

"

[abstamaria]

It's a hobby for me, Jay, so I go as far I can, chasing that elusive dream. The problem with any quest is when one completes it. What does one do then? I'm probably squarely in the OC category, but it's fun for me to do it that way.

I have no interest in recording though, but want to replicate the memory of the Sound on stage, live, with strings, french horns, singers, and all. if Hank overdubbed, we'll have a second lead play along ...

Take the long road home, as the MC of our vintage car club says at the end of each meeting.

I hope that was a joke about the scan results, Jay.

Andy

[jay]

.....yes it was a joke Andy....I was imagining if I had an obsessive compulsive guitar habit....well a bigger one actually.

jay

[abstamaria]

That's good, Jay. Stay healthy.

Andy

[allclaphands]

It's a hobby for me to Andy.I see it as a personal challenge to
myself to achieve these things sourcing the music,learning it and
then trying to perfect it all.The original sounds and equipment used
I see as a guide to what your trying to achieve not as the Holy Grail.
Just to get near to some of these instrumentals is a achievement
let alone trying to record it and video it.That is why I admire very much
the members who do this and post it.This in itself acts as a spur to try
even harder.I can not think of anything more satisfying than playing
a guitar and getting a real good sound out of it.Every member has
there own guitars, effect units,amps ect. in trying to achieve there
own personal goals probably within there own personal budgets.If I
won the lottery (not just a £10 but the jackpot) I would probably
get one of everything plus the equivalent of a recording studio
(I don' know who i am kidding as the wife would probably not let me)
Not probably but definitely not. Still no harm in dreaming.
Have to go now and do the housework yes Dear i'm coming i have finished on the computer sorry Darling I will move the guitars later and no i will not be twanging today.Don't it just make you LAUGH
Keep Smiling
Pete

[frankmarvin]

Very interesting this lot: Personally I get a perverse kind of pleasure getting the best I can out of a 1991 Mex strat, G2.1u and a Behringer vampire Amp , an added bonus being that I can always blame the gear if things go badly

Frank:

[harley]

Hi Jay

I have a stupid amount of gear, some very expensive, some very cheap. I can honestly say that price does not equate to a better sound. I, like many others have spent far too much money running round in circles trying to recreate "that sound" In my own case it is for live work. I use an amp sim through a PA rather than a guitar amp as i find it much more versatile. My current live set up, which is by far the closest i have ever come to that elusive, holy grail of sounds, consists of a behringer V-amp (£50 off the well known auction site) a stereo EQ unit (£54 off the well known auction site) and alesis Q2 EFTP. OK the Q2 was reasonably expensive but to be honest i use it to justify its expense and because i can put it in a rack. It sounds pretty much the same with any of the echo units i have tried. (magicstomp, zoom G7, zoom G2, Quad GT) guitar is a home made HBM copy although with EQ most strats can be made to sound close. I used to post using a second hand burns marquee through a second hand zoom G2 straight in to a PC with reasonable results. I wonder how many of us have wasted lots of money on equipment when the real answer is to spend lots of time fine tuning and experimenting with what we already have. I know i will never have the exact sound of the original recordings but then i dont believe anyone ever will live. I do however believe that my live sound is reasonably close and it doesnt cost the earth

regards
Ian

[frankmarvin]

Ian, 'Im with you all the way: its 90% in the fingers and *feel* :
Frank:

[abstamaria]

Ian, like old cars that the cheapest modern vehicles will run rings around, some of us, like probably you, buy Fiesta-red Strats and EF86-valves Voxes because. ... it's a hobby.

I don't gig but might do a show now and then for an audience wanting to listen to Ventures and Shadows music. There we want to recreate also the visuals of the period - the sparkling guitars we lusted after as kids, the tweed amps, even the thin leather straps. if we appeared on stage with carbon-fiber Parker Fly guitars wirelessly connected to computers, we might disappoint our audience. Imagine if Hank did that. I was so pleased for instance that Cliff showed up in his last show here with his J200. With the size of that hall, etc., he probably would have sounded the same with another guitar. But he used the J200, which was a treat.

I also figured simplistically that to recreate the old Sound, the logical approach would be to use as similar equipment as possible. If Hank used a Vox AC15, then start with those rather than try to tweak a Fender Twin to extract the Vox sound. I'm probably just lazy, though, and need an excuse to get that Vox. And the Twin to play Bob Bogle!

So don't look at the money you spent on your expensive gear as wasted, Ian!

Andy

[abstamaria]

Jay, by the way, which is the Wim's thread on Wonderful Land that you refer to?

Regards,

andy

[frankmarvin]

Andy: Everything you is say is right, a purist like yourself, would never be happy with a sub-standard sound, BUT not everyone can afford to buy all the best equipment , and some can only try their best with the best gear that they can manage to buy on a limited budget, or indeed justify spending large amounts of money on a hobby:

With the utmost respect: Frank:

[abstamaria]

I agree, Frank. All I'm saying is that it's nice to have something to chase, even if one will never catch it. I appreciate your note and concur fully.

With best wishes from a cool Hong Kong,

Andy

[jay]

I like Ian's comment......."I have a stupid amount of gear,..."

I've never used an EQ unit...should I get one? Will I be accused of being stupid?

Andy.....Wim's article is in General - Sticked (shouldn't that be Stuck) Threads - Recording The Shadows....it's a brain workout.

jay

[frankmarvin]

Just read Wim's article, I might take up golf:

Now then , wooden shafts or aluminium???

[martyn]

Mar 16, 2013 14:37:31 GMT frankmarvin said:

Just read Wim's article, I might take up golf:

Now then , wooden shafts or aluminium???

Definitely graphite shafts - I have a set for sale if you become desperate for a change of hobby . . . ;D

[mojolomjl]

Mar 16, 2013 14:37:31 GMT frankmarvin said:

Just read Wim's article, I might take up golf:

Now then , wooden shafts or aluminium???

If you think playing the guitar can be frustrating then I would stay well clear of golf ;D

[frankmarvin]

Anyone for tennis lol

[mojolomjl]

I think Bowls might be more suitable

[allclaphands]

What with Golf then Tennis and even maybe bowls
Next Frank will be putting in for the Olympics. ;D ;D ;D
(jokingly said) I would please ask members not to encourage him. ;D

Pete

[mojolomjl]

Mar 20, 2013 15:25:50 GMT allclaphands said:

What with Golf then Tennis and even maybe bowls
Next Frank will be putting in for the Olympics. ;D ;D ;D
(jokingly said) I would please ask members not to encourage him. ;D

Pete

I don't think Frank needs any encouragement