How do I get a creamy blues distortion?

[bill]

Ok, I must be the only one on here that isn't trying to get 'that sound'

I have been fiddling with amp settings (gain, volume, treble, middle, bass) in an attempt to get a nice (not too muddy and not too harsh/sharp) distortion.

I can get pretty close to what I want e.g. with some settings when I play the wound strings but with those settings if I play the top two strings either there is less distortion or it is too harsh. Is that normal? When looking for a particular nice distortion should I accept that I can only play on the wound strings? Or should I keep trying different settings?
TIA,

[jay]

Creamy blues distortion.....as in EC's Creamy blues sound?

Probably not I know....but I've never heard of anyone avoiding the top
strings or even talking about a problem with them so maybe if you let us know what gear you are using someone may be able to offer some
advice.

I wonder if a look at the pick up height under the top 2 strings would reveal anything? How about changing the string guage of those strings?

Jay.

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Bill,
Try more mids and perhaps less bass and treble. What amp do you use?
Regards,
Charlie

[bill]

Thanks Guys,
Sounds like I should persevere and keep trying.

I am using a Burns Brian May (Burns Trisonic pickups) into a Marshall DSL401 and nothing else for this.

I did wonder about the strings, I put 10s on it last time (BM uses 9s).

EC? Maybe (BTW I'm not trying to sound like BM just in case you think that because of the guitar, I have that guitar because of the wonderful big neck and wide fingerboard). Yes, I like the blues based rock guitarists, although I am listening more and more to original accoustic blues so this is a parallel project.

[ha2he]

Hi Bill,
You're not alone in trying for something different than 'That Sound'.
I'm not familiar with your rig so do not know what it is capable of, it may just need tweaking and patience to get what you need from it.

Boss make a pedal called the Blues Driver which may be of use to you.
Here's a youtube demo clip.



Good Luck,
Tim.

[Deleted]

Hi Bill,
The creamy distorton that you talk of is not a product of single coil pickups as under gain they sound grainey and trebly. The real creamy distortion comes from good quality humbuckers. However having said that Brian may always uses a treble booster into a Vox but don't be fooled by the word 'treble' with one of these boosters, what it does it adds gain and pushes and drives a valve amp into smooth refined distortoin smoothing it out. With humbuckers you don't need one.
David Gilmour of Pink Floyd also used one for his strat in the 70's.
The guitar techniques editor Phil Hilborne played all Brians parts the Queen musical " We will Rock You" when it first started and now he's even developed one of his own. I actually use it with my Malmsteen Strat.
Tony

[Charlie Hall]

I think the best sound would come from the Brian May guitar with certain pickups configured in series, which would come much closer to the sound of humbuckers. If there is a master tone control on the guitar, maybe rolling it back a bit would help too.
A good overdriven tone can often be got by limiting the treble content from the guitar.
Regards,
Charlie

[bill]

Hi Charlie,
Right, I'll try that. The BM has a master volume and master tone control that I have tended to leave on 'full' then each pickup has an on/off switch and each pickup has a phase switch. The pickups are wired in series as standard and I haven't modified them.
Tony,
Thanks for that clarification, I did actually wonder why BM wanted to boost the 'treble'.
Tim,
Thanks, I'll listen when I get a chance tomorrow.

As an aside, would Texas specials or the Fat 50s pickups on a Strat produce the creamy distortion more than standard pickups on a 1983 American Standard Strat? Alternatively, is this an excuse to buy a Gibson (Epiphone) SG?

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Bill,
The Dallas Treble Booster adds gain and reduces bass. A bit like the EF86 channel (more gain) in the old Vox amps with brilliance switch (less bass).
I think Texas Specials have stronger mids, but it seems some players find it too much. I like Fat 50s because they have nice mids and still have vintage tone, at least mine have.
Not sure about an SG. Probably as with Strats, some will sound a lot better than others.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

Hi Bill3,
Watch this short DVD link and Mike Casswell gives it away right at the
end if you have a BM Guitar
www.licklibrary.com/store/michael-casswell/15700/learn-to-play-queen-vol-2-2-dvd-set
Tony

[Charlie Hall]

Is it the sixpence or the Digitech?
Billy Gibbons uses a US coin (not exactly sure which) to similar effect as a sixpence. Any small coin should work much the same.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

Hi Charlie,
I suppose everything in the chain contributes something to the overall sound.
Sixpences might be hard to find now so BM should try a 10 pence, that way he'll keep up with inflation.
Tony

[bill]

Thanks Guys,
I've managed to have a listen. The Boss Blues Driver sounds too harsh to me but good to have listened. The sound on Killer Queen in the video sounds good. I wonder if the Digitech pedal can do sounds other than BM?

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Bill,
I think the Blues Driver sounds quite good (although I might be tempted to modify it if I had one). Removing high end from the guitar or using pickups in series or humbuckers would make it sound very different.
I didn't see any reference to a particular Digitech model. Do you know which?
Regards,
Charlie

[bill]

Hi Charlie,
So, a Boss Blues Driver might do it with a BM guitar; besides now that I've seen how much the Digitech pedal costs the Boss is back in the picture! I assume the Digitech pedal referred to is the BM Red Special www.digitech.com/products/Pedals/BrianMay/index.php which is really intended for people who can't play through three AC30s at full volume :-)

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Bill,
Yes, I think it probably could. A Strat is rarely a good indication of what an overdrive could do with different guitars/configurations.
Regards,
Charlie

[Deleted]

I believe the Digitech pedals were made to replicate the sound of the artist. They did an Eric Clapton one some time back but are not versatile due to this dedicated artist thing.
I can tell you that distortin pedals dont work well with every amp for some reason. I've had lots of distortion pedals over the years even the acclaimed Boss GT10. I sold it and stayed with the Zoom G2 however if you can use a guitar with single coil 'stacked' humbuckers even or ordinary humbuckers into the Zoom G2 then to a Marshall or Line 6 amp you'll get double cream but it would be trial and error with other amps.
Tony

[Len]

Hi Bill

I can get a very smooth distortion sound with my Roland/Boss GT-3. There is a patch called 'Smooth Lead' which has a combination of distortion, compression and uses the Marshall Pre-amp simulator along with EQ. Each of these components used in moderation along perhaps with some of the earlier suggestions might help you to achieve the sound you want. Using a suitable blues driver or distortion pedal along with compression may be the way to go. The compressor helps to even out the sound along with providing greater sustain. The overdriver will provide distortion and sustain as well. Don't overlook the natural overdrive of a good tube amp if you have one of those. The EQ of 'Smooth Lead' (the patch referred to above) might have to be modified just a little for a Bluesy sound but I will send some of the key the settings to you when I have a little time to get these details together. You will probably need to modify the settings to suit your own rig and the type of sound that you are after.

In the meantime, I hope these general suggestions may help a little.

Regards
Len

[Len]

Hi Bill

Here are the promised settings for SMOOTH LEAD on the Roland/Boss GT-3.

However, firstly, here are some explanations that might help you before you try the settings:

The Preamp settings (MS1959 = Marshall early ’59 model) are included as a guide along with the EQ settings and relevant effect order. There was some reverb and delay in the patch but as it is probably not central to the sound, I decided to omit that. You can easily add some of that if you have the equipment and I suggest that you use your Marshall to try to get a good Middle setting for Blues along the lines Charlie suggested.

I wouldn’t worry too much about trying to exactly replicate the following settings. They can be used purely as a guide, or perhaps as a starting point. I do strongly suggest though, that you try some form of compression if you can, as I think it can help with obtaining that smooth sound. There would be some natural compression occurring with a Marshall anyway due to clipping. I don’t know anything about the model you are using but if it is a tube Marshall and it can be cranked up beyond a Crunch setting until you have some good distortion going, without overdoing it, and then combine this with compression (placed before the Overdriver, if using one of those), you may start to see some results.

I would just encourage you to keep persevering with it until you get the right sound. No one has the unique combination of your brain, fingers, technique, guitar, amp and other equipment. As long as your guitar is properly setup, as suggested by others, there is no reason why you cannot get a good smooth Blues distortion. I would just concentrate on getting the right amount of compression, tweaking the Blues Driver and then getting a Middle or Presence setting on your amp. Humbuckers (as others have suggested) may help as they can provide sustain. I would certainly try to use some of Charlie’s suggestions re the humbuckers with your Brian May guitar. The key, in my view, is the right combination and use of moderate settings of each component for a smooth Blues sound.

Here are the settings:

CS/LM (Compression/Sustainer or Limiter)
On/Off On
Type Compressor
Sustain 50
Attack 40
Tone 0
Level 50

OD/DS (Overdrive/Distortion)
On/Off On
Type Distortion2
Drive 32
Bass 0
Treble +10
Level 10

PRE
On/Off On
Type MS1959 (I+II) – this combines Inputs I and II using Y cord)
Volume 80
Bass 50
Middle 25
Treble 50
Presence 50
Master 43
Gain Middle

EQ
On/Off On
Low EQ 0dB
Frequency 400Hz
Q 1
Gain +7dB
Frequency 8.00kHz
Q 4
Gain +12dB
High EQ +10dB
Level +4dB

Effect Order
In > CS/LM > OD/DS > PRE > EQ > RVRB > FV > Out (those turned ‘off’ omitted)

I hope it all works out. Let me know if you have any queries. I don't want this to sound like the last word. I'm sure it's not. I may also have forgotten something perhaps. Others may have further suggestions that may help.

Regards
Len

[bill]

Many thanks Len for going to all that trouble,
I'll try those settings as a basis at the weekend.
I don't have a compressor so that is something else I'll need to consider. The Marshall DSL401 is a valve amp (4 x ECC83/12AX7 and 4 x EL84) with a built in extra boost/overdrive on one channel.