"Atlantis" Fender or Burns?

[Kevin]

From: MSN Nicknameal300875 (Original Message) Sent: 19/04/2008 08:14
Hi Charlie and All.
A Q has popped up and has me also wondering, Was the original version of Atlantis played on a Burns or a Strat.
Cheers Alex


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From: Charlie Hall Sent: 19/04/2008 10:17
This has been a much discussed topic in the past. Hank says it was a Strat.
Regards,
Charlie

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From: MSN Nicknameal300875 Sent: 19/04/2008 10:19
Hi Charlie
If the man himself says it was a strat then a strat it shall be .
Cheers Alex

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From: MSN NicknameAlan_McKillop Sent: 19/04/2008 12:32
Ah, but Licorice says it was played on a Burns ........... and he was there as well.

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From: Charlie Hall Sent: 19/04/2008 16:38
I have heard about that also. I could certainly believe that the Burns was in the development stage at the time. Maybe both guitars were used during the session and few know which one made it for release?
Regards,
Charlie

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From: Charlie Hall Sent: 19/04/2008 16:39
Or since parts are double tracked it could even be both.

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From: MSN Nickname5tratocaster Sent: 19/04/2008 23:31
I'd considered that possibility as well, Charlie.
I've always liked to think the main theme was played on a Stratocaster. It is such a beautiful tone and one of my personal Shadows favourites, so I hope it was a Strat, the guitar most associated with them at that time. And if Hank himself says so ......!
Atlantis was recorded in December 1962 and The Shadows themselves refer to their 'Burns Period' as 1964 to 1968. The first single we generally associate with the Burns is 'Flingel Bunt' recorded in February 1964 and released in May of that year.
However, Jim Burns would have worked on prototypes for many months before the Burns Marvin finally appeared, so Licorice's recollection may be right. I think it unlikely though that Hank would have used an experimental guitar for the main theme, knowing that if it was a hit, he would have to try and reproduce that sound live with his Stratocaster.
Geoff

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From: MSN Nicknamebear637 Sent: 20/04/2008 01:53
Hi Alex
I'm not going to lay my money out on this but I think Atlantis was played on a Burns as was many of Hank's songs in the early years, also Bruce used for recording purposes, a Gibson.
The first time I saw them in the early 60's all were using Burns for their shows.
There are some great sites around on the web that will give you the history of the Shadows and what gear they used.
Cheers
John

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From: MSN Nicknameemiel1948 Sent: 20/04/2008 11:36
I think a Strat with Burns pickup's......
To be serious, if you listen to the use of the tremelo then there is some resemblance with later recordings on Burns. There is, how to call it, a small vibrato.

Regards,
Emiel

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From: Marcelo Sent: 20/04/2008 13:04
Hello all!

A Shadows fan friend of mine from Spain, also made me see that in the begining of the second verse there is a little moment with a DeArmond 610 pedal.

Regards!
Marcelo.

[5tratocaster]

I know this is an old topic, but I now have some information which is relevant.
Atlantis was recorded in December 1962.
I have it on good authority from a Burns employee that Hank did not make contact with them about the development of the Marvin until the Autumn of 1963. They have a photo of Hank with the very first prototype with a one-piece scratchplate dated 5th November 1963, almost a year after 'Atlantis' was recorded.
So that is proof enough for me that 'Atlantis' was recorded on a Fender Stratocaster, the way Hank remembers it.
Geoff

[alanmckillop]

I have a copy of Beat magazine where Hank speaks about his new Marvin in early 1964 and he says quite clearly, that the Marvin was in the making for some 24 months. They had many prototypes to try out and experiment with during it's construction, and he adds that when he thought everything was ok, Bruce would find something which he wasn't happy with and so it went back to Burns for refinement.

We are relying on the memory of people (Hank, Licorice & Burns workers) going back more than 40 years, but when Hank wrote his column in Beat, it was 'at the time' of the event, so I'll go along with his writings in 1964.

[alanmckillop]

Here is what Hank had to say, copied directly from the mag;

"I'd like to take the opportunity this month to answer all the questions I have received about my new guitar, made specially for me by Burns. And, I promise you, there is no subject that I'd rather ramble on about, because there is nothing like playing your own "tailor-made" guitar.

I first thought of the idea about two years ago. I mentioned it to Ike Isaacs, my old music teacher, and he arranged a meeting with Jim Burns—in next to no time he had his technicians on the job.

I knew exactly what I was after. Getting technical for a moment, I wanted it to remain perfectly in tune even with a wide-range tremolo arm with, if possible, more variation in the tone controls. He knew the shape I wanted but that was no great problem.

I checked all this with Bruce before I gave the O.K. He wanted one as well so I thought I'd give him an idea as to what he was in for!

Now back to the factory, Those fellows up at Romford must have loved me! Over thirty models were completed before the final job appeared. I just had to keep sending them back— because if I didn't find something wrong, a certain rhythm guitarist would.

I admit I was beginning to wonder if it ever would be exactly right, but at last we each got one that was perfect.

The 24 months of waiting was a nuisance, I know, but it all seemed worthwhile when we first began to use them. The reception and response were tremendous. Now we wouldn't change them for anything."

As mentioned in my previous post, this was written by Hank at the time, no 40 year gap where memories can play tricks, so Burns must have started to develop the guitar in early to mid 1962 and since they've written that they experimented with instruments in the studio, it's anyone's guess on which recordings prior to TRAFOFB the Burns was used.