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Post by alanch9 on Jun 13, 2009 14:15:07 GMT
Hi - I am (or was) in the process of getting a Q2 ready to purchase Charlies EFTP. Now it has arrived I exciteldy began the checkout following Charlies instructions and..... very first thing I find is that the seller misled me and software is v1.03. Now I'm really p*ssed because he packed it awfully too. Before I get into the joys of the well known auction site dispute resolution, can any one advise me if the Q2 can be upgraded to v2 software? And if it can, how do I go about it and what might it cost? Cheers Alan  |
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 13, 2009 14:29:47 GMT
Hi Alan,
If the seller told you that it was version 2.0 (which can mean versions 2.00 and 2.01, both will work with my programs) and it is not, then he has misled you and I think you should dispute it with the well known auction site. If not, then I don't think you would have a claim.
I do have the upgrade chips to convert the software to 2.01, but there is almost certainly a need to modify the memory reset circuit as well, which is unlikely to have been done. I do have a circuit diagram of the necessary changes kindly sent to me by Paul in Australia, but not detailed instructions as the modification is only briefly mentioned in even the official service manual and the pictures are missing in the manual. I have not done this modification myself but I do know someone in Peterborough who could almost certainly do it.
If the upgrade chip is fitted without the modification to the reset circuit, programs can become corrupted or lost. This happens each time the unit is powered up.
The likely cost of putting it in suitable order would be between £60-£100.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 13, 2009 15:03:46 GMT
Hi Charlie - Wow super fast response thanks. I'm gutted really, was so looking forward to moving on with this project. The longer the cash for your EFTP sits in the drawer the more danger of it getting snaffled for something else! I have even got a cheap midi footswitch on it's way from USA courtesy of Sheedigs who helped me out. So now I'm stuck up the proverbial the well known auction site gumtree!!! I will no doubt be back in touch when I've heard from my seller. All the very best Alan.  |
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Post by sheendigs on Jun 13, 2009 22:11:52 GMT
Hi Alan ;D Please check your e-mail... Once I received a Quadraverb with a version 1.0. I replaced with a chip I had from someone 2.01. I just had to reload all the presets from another Q2 with a midi cable..If I am not wrong one can upload from the computer with an edirol cable that Roland now has put on the market..I have not tried it yet..but it should work.. The RP128 Midi buddy is a killer pedal..and it should work without any glitch..All the microswitches must be upwards to work..Mine is set up like that! Sheendigs  |
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 14, 2009 1:56:43 GMT
Hi Charlie,
It might depend upon whether he has a Rev A or C mother board and whether these already have the reset mod, or whether it is a Rev E board which would be OK.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 14, 2009 4:58:45 GMT
Hi Paul,
I think the service manual states that both revision A and revision C boards should be modified when v. 2.01 software is installed, but there is no clue as to how they differ. As you say any of these could already have been modified, but I think that is unlikely if the software is the original v. 1.03.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 11:44:09 GMT
HI PAUL & all ,,, paul would it be possible for you [if you know the mod in question] to describe it here ? and maybe a drawing showing what part of the board it is located.... I have 2x Q2's & both revision ''A'' boards ,, upon obtaining the service manual I checked the mod's described there-in & they both differed slightly ,so I copied the mod from one to another,as well as adhering to the manual the service manual I have came from the same source as charlie's ...
I noticed one of the mod's that being the alteration of ''R50''& ''R51'', was retrofitted with 1/8th resistor's & on my first aquired unit ,,,,and on the second one the mod must have been done at manufacture as when checking the values of the surface original resistor's they were correct,,, but it lacked one of the other mod's [the sampling mod ] which I performed ,,,
..
Saying all that I have not had any problem's with either of the unit's and I have now used mainly the one with charlies patches for quite a period of time the second unit is programed with ''ECHO-TAPPER'' patch set & it also has given no trouble!!! both unit's had to be upgraded to V2.01 ,one of the chip's I obtained from you when I visited you in ''WA''...
CHEERS in antisipation ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,barry..
[PS] ALLAN sorry to hear your woe's with you Q2 purchase but maybe it will be ok when you replace the chip!! ,I when bought my first one & when opening the unit[cover] I saw these resistor's added & thought I had bought a ''lemon'' after talkig to charlie & further investigation found it to be ''OK'' ,, 1 thing you must do once sorted-out [dispute] is to replace the back=up battery !!! good-luck with it allan...
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 14, 2009 12:08:24 GMT
Thanks for the posts guys. Couple of questions, how would I know what rev the board is.... And is it worth buying a non-working Quadraverb very cheaply as a spares backup to a Q2 would that be worth it with these old units?
Best wishes
Alan.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 13:29:18 GMT
HI allan ,,removing the cover will expose the pc board & it is printed on the pc board & is easy to read ... The older quad's are quite different as per using any part's for the Q2!! ALLAN if you cannot resolve the issue with the seller>>> ..... You could just obtain the V2.01 chip and fit it [It is easy to fit as it has a socket & with due-care you could replace it yourself ,,& try it & that may be all that is required? ?,the Q2's seem very reliable ....other than a noisy pot or dirty contacts on the 6.5mm sockets... One thing more to remove &replace the chip a ''chip-removal'' tool will help & they are cheap & easy to get from an electronic's store!! cheers ......barry.. |
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 14, 2009 21:09:50 GMT
Hi Barry thanks for the help and for the tip to change the backup battery. Am not dumb really - should have thought before typing! Of course all I had to do was take the cover off.... The board says it is Revision A. And yes if I keep it, will have to upgrade to the V2.01 chip and will need to buy that from someone (soon) so will get a chipinsertion tool too.
Here's a new one though - if you techies can advise... When I took the cover off the unit looks pretty clean inside bit of dust of course but the board is very clean considering it's fairly old - don't know if that means it been tinkered with at some time. However, a chip looks a bit brown (overheated?) to me. It is to the rear right (from front) and I think it is U4; right behind the midi sockets. Anyone any advice? Just bothered this may be an imminent failure. (I have a photo of it if anyone can help just email.)
Once again thanks Barry, Sheendigs and of course Charlie - great site this.
Alan.
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 14, 2009 22:10:01 GMT
Hi Alan, If the seller told you that it was version 2.0 (which can mean versions 2.00 and 2.01, both will work with my programs) and it is not, then he has misled you and I think you should dispute it with the well known auction site. If not, then I don't think you would have a claim. I do have the upgrade chips to convert the software to 2.01, but there is almost certainly a need to modify the memory reset circuit as well, which is unlikely to have been done. I do have a circuit diagram of the necessary changes kindly sent to me by Paul in Australia, but not detailed instructions as the modification is only briefly mentioned in even the official service manual and the pictures are missing in the manual. I have not done this modification myself but I do know someone in Peterborough who could almost certainly do it. If the upgrade chip is fitted without the modification to the reset circuit, programs can become corrupted or lost. This happens each time the unit is powered up. The likely cost of putting it in suitable order would be between £60-£100. Regards, Charlie |
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 14, 2009 22:13:45 GMT
Hi Charlie
I have decided to keep the Q2 and upgrade it. They don't come up very often and certainly not at the price I got mine. Question is what to do next. If your advice is to get it done properly via the people in Peterborough you mentioned, then I'm happy to trust your judgement on that. Perhaps they can give the unit a once-over anyway to check all is okay? Anyway, would like to get on with it or I'll still be asking questions come Christmas!
Best wishes
Alan.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 14, 2009 23:03:03 GMT
Hi Alan,
I'm not sure about U4 as the part numberings vary according to the board type, however, if the chip is near the MIDI sockets then I think it will be the opto-isolator for the MIDI out or MIDI in. It might be as well to see if data can be sent to and from the unit.
Let me know if you would like a pdf of the service manual, which covers board versions A and C.
Call Roy Paynter on 01733 253022. Evenings might be better to call. When I discussed the circuit details of the mod he understood everything I was saying, and when I asked him if he would like me to send him the circuit, he said no, I will remember it! It would be as well though to remind him that I had discussed it with him. He could also change the battery for you, and I was amazed when he showed me a very small blowtorch that he uses to enable changing the battery without removing the main board. If he doesn't have a suitable battery, I have some. I can also send him a version 2.01 chip to copy from if he doesn't have one already, but will wait for a request for those things from Roy or yourself if it becomes necessary.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 15, 2009 7:59:33 GMT
Thanks Charlie, I will call him tonight.
Cheers
Alan.
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 15, 2009 14:12:04 GMT
Hi Barry and others,
If you e-mail me I will send a schematic of the original part of the reset circuit and the modified (Rev E) version. Also a diagram of the board showing where the components are located. (I can't find a simple way to include them in this message).
This mod should not be tried unless you are very confident in your electronic abilities since you could cause severe damage your Q2!!
Paul.
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 15, 2009 19:44:19 GMT
Hi Charlie. I have spoken with Roy Paynter but for some reason he wasn't able to help - certainly none of your note above seemed to click with him or the mods you suggested are required. He says the mods used to be done by a Colin Clarke but Colin died couple of years ago and the knowledge died with him (wasn't documented). Another engineer Ian Bradshaw also did work but he's lost contact with him. If he (Roy) had detailed instructions could probably do the work - but he hasn't. Also that he seems to recall a RAM ugprade was needed but wasn't sure and also didn't think that now available - but if he had a duplicate board with the mods he could possibly copy it..... As for the overheated looking chip he says it could be a dry joint. But as I don't have any MIDI stuff I can check it with don't know it it is working or not.
Yuk! Feel like I've stepped in to a techy nightmare.
Alan.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 15, 2009 21:25:15 GMT
Hi Alan,
I will call Roy tomorrow. It might be easier if I get him to agree to look at it for me. I might even be able to do it myself but I need to see the board and compare with the info I have from Paul.
The earlier RAM isn't too bad as far as I know. It does draw more current than the later ones but the real bad ones also came later, those are the Winbond ones that are mentioned in my information file. Yours are the Korea chips and I don't think there's a problem with them.
Colin died early last year. He was not very old, in his early 50s I think. He worked at Sound Technology 2 or 3 days a week, they were the original importers for Alesis in the UK. Colin's passing is one of the reasons I no longer prefer to get too involved with these units at close range as I considered Colin to be the one I could turn to if there was a problem. If I spoke to anyone else there, they would tell me they no longer worked on Alesis equipment, so I always told them that Colin would do it for me.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 15, 2009 23:53:19 GMT
Hi Alan,
I have emailed you with good news. Your Q2 has already been modified, although it is not exactly the same as Paul's mod. However, it is an official mod as I have a Q2 just arrived here that has been modified in exactly the same way as yours.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 16, 2009 2:06:34 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I would be interested to see how the official mod differs from the Rev E mod that I did, if you should get the time to trace it out. It was interestring thet some Q2's have the mod, even though they still have the early ROM.
Regards,
Paul.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 16, 2009 2:14:43 GMT
Hi Paul,
I don't think I will have time to trace it out as the owner is coming back for it tomorrow but I will try to take a high quality close up photo of the area. I will email it to you as soon as I have had the time to process the pic. It does take the supply from the 10 volt rail like your mod, and it does use a zener.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 16, 2009 7:54:00 GMT
Hi Charlie. Hey you certainly burn the night oil! But thanks for that news, nice to get something positive! I am at office now so won't pick up my messages until this evening. But just to let you know after I emailed you a picture of the nicely browned chip, I let the unit run for a couple of hours and it certainly got warm in that corner (not hot or anything I would normally feel concerned about). But not knowing anything about Alesis kit don't know if this is normal or not?
Regards Alan.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 9:16:14 GMT
HI ALL..and thankyou paul for those diagram's on this mod in question that you emailed me at my request to you ,''goodonyou'' I would like take this opportunity to let member's here know that ''PAUL'' is our ''OZZIE-vintage -echo guru ,the man that designed & build's the ''analog-TVS3's & associated tvs product's ,for those that were not aware of him..... And now to the ''UK'' echo-guru -''CHARLIE'' I was wondering if by chance that those serial no's of Q2's that you have made us aware of in the past have this problem? ??.... AS this above thread problem does not seem to affect a great majority of Q2's [not that I have read about ] on this site & others ?... I will investigate my unit's for to see if this has been rectified & or if it was maybe done before leaving the factory & post my finding's here...... CHEERS TO ALL.............barry.. |
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 16, 2009 15:50:33 GMT
Hi Alan,
It is normal for these units to get hot in that area as it is fairly close to the power supply components.
Hi Barry,
I was having problems with some Q2 units in the serial number range Q25504XXX to Q25506XXX, but not all have been problems from that range. This makes me think that some units were modified and others were not. This problem could exist with revision A boards, and possibly revision C boards. Logically, the earliest Q2 units would also have revision A boards, but it always seemed to be the serial number range above that had problems.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 16, 2009 16:12:13 GMT
That's great Charlie thanks. I would like to have someone who knows what they are doing look the unit over and put the 2.01 chip in - would you be able to do that?
Regards
Alan
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 16, 2009 16:49:45 GMT
Hi Alan,
I could do it if you were prepared to bring it to me. I prefer not to post items these days.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 16, 2009 20:09:27 GMT
Hi Paul,
I have sent you the pic I took today of the Q2 rev A board.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 17, 2009 1:39:00 GMT
Hi Charlie,
Thanks for sending the pic, it was really clear!
The mod shown is the same as the one I traced from the Rev E board with only one difference: R10 is 1k5 whereas it is 1k on the Rev E board. This is of little significance, though Q5 will be switched on a bit harder in the Rev E version and I would probably use the 1k value. The other components (2k2, 4k7 resistors and removal of C1) are the same. I also note that the 10v rail is picked up from R51 and not the cathode of D4 which I used, but again of no significance.
I also noted the track cut between R13 and R11, which is required for the mod.
Looks like we finally have the answer to the missing pages of the service manual!
Best Regards,
Paul.
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Post by Charlie Hall on Jun 17, 2009 2:43:08 GMT
Hi Paul,
Thanks for checking. I wasn't sure that it was as close as your mod but I didn't have time to check it properly.
I can now send that pic to anyone who has an early Q2 so they can check for themselves that the mod has been done.
What would you make of the brown surface glaze over U4? I am not sure if that chip was also changed from a different type. Both of the units I have seen this week have this glaze.
Hi Alan,
Please let me know when you have read this news from Paul.
Regards,
Charlie
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Post by fenderplucker on Jun 17, 2009 4:19:34 GMT
Hi Charlie,
I have no idea what the brown glaze would be. However, that's the same U4 chip that Alan said looked like it was getting cooked, but it is spread over adjacent parts of the board from C3 to R14 as well so I doubt that it is a problem with the chip. A bit of a mystery, particularly as you say it appears on other boards. This would seem to rule out the service technician dribbling some of his coffee there!
Best Regards,
Paul.
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Post by alanch9 on Jun 17, 2009 8:01:42 GMT
Hi Charlie/Paul
Yes I've seen the posts. That solves it, when the unit warmed up, could swear I smelt coffee......
Regards to you both
Alan.
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