1963 Strat vs 2005 '57/62 pickups

[macnik]

I thought it might be interesting to make a comparison between a friend's 1963 all original Stratocaster and my 2005 CIJ '62 Reissue fitted with US '57/'62 pickups. Both guitars have alder bodies and rosewood boards though the CIJ has a slab board.

Aside from the two different guitars everything is the same. Strings sets from the same manufacturer and same gauge, same tone settings on ToneLab and into the same recording equipment.

I know this isn't a scientific exercise but all variables apart from the guitar differences mentioned have been eliminated.

I wonder if forum members can tell which is which and which they prefer. It'll be interesting to hear your comments.

Cheers
Ian

www.4shared.com/audio/gROx125O/23_Peace_Pipe_1.html
www.4shared.com/audio/PbohogiF/17_Peace_Pipe.html

[Johan]

Hi Ian,

Interesting comparison, rather tough one, but there is a distinct difference. For what its worth, here's my take on it:

What I did was to import both recordings into Audacity, then lined them up perfectly. So, when you play back, they are in perfect sync.
Then proceeded by muting alternate sections of each track so only one of the two tracks would play and one can listen to A/B comparisons on the fly.

The differences are quite evident on the wound strings, See around the 1:15 timing mark. --- #2 has richer harmonics, i.e., its tonal profile is slightly more towards the upper mids and highs.

On the plain strings for high notes the difference is subtle, however, to me. guitar #1 sound a bit softer and rounded, i.e., the treble toned down a little. Unfortunately #2 guitar is slightly off pitch which is a bit distracting for making comparisons and this tune has a lot of higher notes.

Think both guitars have very nice usable tones --- shows how complex the sounds of these things are.

Regards.

Johan.

[erikMAMS]

My 2 cents
I'm not able to say which is which judging by the sound, but I prefer the sound of the plain strings on the second (17_Peace_Pipe) and the first for the wound strings (23_Peace_Pipe). I miss maybe a little more of that wooden character I associate with vintage strats on both though.
If I was to buy one of them by the sound alone I'd choose the second. With a little fine tuning of the lows - removing a little muddiness - I think it would be a sweet sounding strat.

I agre with Johan re the pitch issue - but also the BT is a little distracting (no offence).

Erik

[macnik]

Hi Johan,

Thank you for your observations and your approach to making a comparison. You are perfectly correct in that there is an obvious difference at the 1:15 timing point which is quite noticeable with, to my ear, a far more ringing tone or acoustic tone from #1. Recording #2 has more of a wooden sound, not wishing to be disrespectful in any way. Does this match your thinking?

It does prove however that Fender have managed to get their '57/62 pickups close to the original '60s ones.

Guitar #2 could well be out of pitch as the strings had just been changed and time for the recording was running short, so had to do the best in a short space of time.

Thanks for taking the time to give this exercise a better study than I am able, which I am most appreciative of.

Would you hazard a guess as to which guitar is the original '63?

Regards,

Ian.

[macnik]

Hi Erik

Thank you for your comment. It seems that an ideal combination would be a mix of treble from #2 and bass from #1. do you think this could be achieved using a graphic. The recoding was made without any additional eq other than that on the pre-amp and both used the same setting. It seems this favoured both guitars, but in different ways.

Thank you for taking the time to listen and comment.

No offence taken regarding the b/t.

Regards

Ian

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ian,
I'm going to say straight away that the 63 is #2. I am of course prepared to be wrong on this. #2 has stronger and nice mids, not so much extreme high end, but stronger and warm treble with those mids. #1 seems to have more sustain like I would expect a reissue to have. I have not compared these for responses in any recording program, I just listened to the first and then the second and then wrote here what my ears are telling me.
If I am wrong, then I would be pleased to own a guitar that can sound like #2 without spending vintage prices.
Regards,
Charlie

[macnik]

Hi Charlie
Thank you. Your response was exactly how I hoped persons would approach approach this. Just an ear test as the experiment was totally unscientificic, though I am very appreciative of Johan's and Eric's measured views which have taught me something I didn't know.

Track1 (#23) uses the 1963 Strat and
Track2 (#17) is the Japanese reissue with the 57/62 pickups.

The preamp was initially setup to provide a nice tone to my ear for my general recording, and was not reset to suit the '63 Strat. Whether this had any influence on the result can only be guessed at or redone with best tone settings to suit each guitar.

However it does prove to me that a used 2005 CIJ reissue with the 57/62 pickups set at the sweet spot can make a nice tone on a guitar that cost less than £400.

My thanks to everyone who replied.

Regards
Ian

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ian,
Well well!! I am pleased to be wrong on this. I genuinely prefer #2. This does however reinforce my general opinion that vintage instruments (especially Strat from the 60s) are sometimes inferior sounding to modern instruments and probably less consistent too.
Regards,
Charlie

[macnik]

Hi Charlie
Do you think that this could possibly be the demise of the expensive, boutique guitars. LOL.
Regards
Ian

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Ian,
Probably not. There will always be some customers who prefer to buy a new guitar ready built and will expect to pay to get what they perceive to be the best.
Regards,
Charlie

[asimmd]

Hi Guys

Another thought I had while listening was that,if you had played the tune on just one guitar,no-one would know the difference.It's only because there are 2 versions that we can make a comparison.

Unfortunately for me,I am one of those who like to buy Custom Shop Guitars,I know it's subjective but many times, you get what you pay for.

Alan

[macnik]

Hi Alan

That's a very valid point that you make, and no offense intended to those who have saved hard for many years to invest in the best quality money can buy. I think most of us appreciate an attractive as well as a good sounding instrument, myself included. I'm just playing devil's advocate here to inject some liveliness into the posts and get members' views, particularly those on a restricted budget. Just to show they mustn't lose heart and that a reasonable result can be achieved with a bread and butter instrument.

Regards
Ian

[asimmd]

Hi Ian

I have heard fantastic results from a Squier strat which,if no-one had said that's what it was,no-one would have known.

I'm not knocking cheap or expensive guitars because I have had both, and really speaking your test throws up another point.

If I was to play a tune on my NOS56 and someone played a tune on a less expensive Strat,who would know,they all have the same basic Fender sound,that's what makes them Fender.

Alan