Apache (again...)

[Roger...]

Hi All,

I guess this must be close to the most played instrumental by guitarists of all time. Very few can get near to the sound that they are looking for (including myself). Still, like others I still enjoy playing it. Here's my version.

Any comments good, bad, or other, welcome.

www.4shared.com/audio/464bIwOI/Apache.html

Kind regards
Roger

[loujones12]

Hi Rog. first off. very well played. secondly untill we are Blue in the face. this tune will never bee captured 100% by anyone. allthough there are some fantastic efforts out there. now to the point of your track, as said well played, however i feel you are lacking the right Echo??? or for some reason not enuff sustain [lenghth of note/echo ] seems the notes fall short and die off too soon. but still good effort.. regards Lou

ps. where in the west mids are you!! i was born and raised next door to B.ham Airport..

[Roger...]

Hi Lou,

Thanks for listening and your kind comments.

I know exactly what you mean about the echo etc, I feel the same. I used Charlie's recommended patch U01 with my MagicStomp and also added some reverb, but somehow it still doesn't seem right. I've messed around with it quite a bit with different tones/patches etc, but never seem to achieve what I'm looking for. I'll keep trying (as we do).

By the way, I live in Shirley. Down the road opposite "The Saracens Head" pub.

Kind regards
Roger

[joeboy]

Hi Roger

Excellent playing & a very nice recording I'm not so sure I like the added reverb in there? none the less very well done

I agree the Apache preset on the Magic Stomp from a personal point of view seems to be lacking a little something? (no disrespect to Charlie). The Apache preset on the Q20 seems far superior over the Magic Stomp, although there are other presets that I prefer on the Magic Stomp over the Q20 so it's not the unit.

I had a discussion with Charlie some months ago over the Magic Stomp Apache preset & he said he was planning to re-visit UO1 & maybe tweak it a bit here & there. I don't know if Charlie has looked into this yet?

Apache as you say is probably the most played Shadows tunes, but also one of the most illusive to get right. I've heard one or two very close versions but the methods used to get the sound close to the original seem to be a closely guarded secret by those that seem to achieve it ;D

[loujones12]

Hi Rog. this tune Will Drive you nuts!! don't think the tone is the problem! its leaving the notes too short, they die off too quick. im no expert just a novice compared to the real guys on here. all you need to get is More Sustain. dont forget everyone has there own ideas and the way they hear things. me and Grip aka= Chris will tell you we have had many a night in the Padded Cell trying to get THE Sound!! chris is still taking the tabblets!!! but comming around now!! lol. maybe Charlie can comment he's the wiz on the patches. however dont go messing the whole thing up now. just a tweek here and there and you'll have it. kind regards Lou

ps my family still live in sheldon, and Solihull, accross from the defunct Rover plant next to solihull town FC ground. small world eh!!!!

[Roger...]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for listening and your kind comments.

I don't know what it is with MagisStomp patch U01. I've always felt there was something not quite right about it. Although I'm no expert at all and Charlie is light years ahead of me, so who am I to say. I thought it lacked reverb so I added a little, but in your opinion you thought there was too much so maybe I was wrong. When I hear the original 'Apache', it always seems to me that it is played in a cave with long lingering notes, hence me adding some reverb, but perhaps not. I will keep trying.

Kind regards
Roger

[joeboy]

Hi Roger

When you find the secret be sure to let me in on it ;D

[Roger...]

Hi Lou,

Regarding the sustain you mentioned. I am holding the notes for as long as possible in the tune, so it must be some added effect that I am looking for. Any ideas if it's not reverb?

P.S I can walk to the Rover Plant in about 20 minutes from my house.

Kind regards
Roger

[loujones12]

Hi Rog. No its not you holding onto the note longer!!! its in the Patch?? or in the stomp unit. maybe ask others who use the stomp which patch they use/prefer. its Equipment problem not you. if you are using it straight into the PC maybe you can add some Sustain. all my tracks are LIVE. i do not add any PC gimicks. only to upload recording then convert to mp3. my set up is Fender strats 3 and my new G&L legacy strat. into Quad [eftp] into B0ss 900cd recorder, fender tube delux amp. and record . just got an Aleises compressor yesterday. to hook up later.. keep trying and take a few tabblets you'll be fine. we've all been there, and in a lot of cases still are.. cheers Lou

[Roger...]

Hi Lou,

Many thanks. I'll keep my ear to the ground for any further info.

Kind regards
Roger

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Roger,
Well played. I thought it sounded OK, having read the others' comments first, which made me expect a really bad echo sound!
One of the things I did with the Apache patch on the Magicstomp was to lower the output slightly on the 3rd and 4th tap compared with the Quads (as I felt I had overdone it on those), so this might be why it sounds too dry and short. It could also be because more pitch shifting is needed. The longest tap is about 600ms so that isn't the problem. I have not had a Magicstomp here yet so I haven't been able to make corrections, I will still try as soon as it becomes possible.
Regards,
Charlie

[loujones12]

Hi Charlie/rog. i agree with you its a good effort and tone wise ok. it's just missing something?? i just feel compared to other great files it needs sustain! or whatever. just feel the notes drop off too soon. i have Your eftp on my Quad, and like you, have No idea re the Stomp. what is needed is guys with the stomp to make a comment or two! im very happy with your eftp's on the quad. in fact its been a new revelation for me! i dont want to stop playing now... think Rog is going to try out things with what he has! regards Lou

[Roger...]

Hi Charlie,

Thank very much for listening and your kind comments and echo information. I very much look forward to your future update sometime.

Thanks again.

Kind regards
Roger

[Roger...]

Hi Lou,

I agree, It would be useful to hear and compare other MagicStomp users post this one.

Kind regards
Roger

[1958fender]

Hi Roger!

I have a MagicStomp and recorded Apache for a few months ago. I use patch U11 with a lot
reverb (Alesis MidiVerb II patch 49). I know...wrong patch, too much reverb *L*. But i like this
version, it´s not Hanks sound...only my own :-)

www.4shared.com/account/audio/JqrEsiV-/Apache.html

Robert.

[Roger...]

Hi Robert,

What a great sound you have there, and superbly played. I noticed as you said that you played with a lot of reverb. I mentioned in an earlier post that I added some reverb to my track but listeners seemed to think that I shouldn't have. To me the original version of Apache sounded like it was played in a cave (a lot of reverb), perhaps it's just me and my hearing. Anyway, many thanks for the reply and the track.

Kind regards
Roger

[joeboy]

Hi Robert

I often use the wrong patch for some tunes, sometimes because I think it sounds better, other times from pure laziness ;D

I tend to agree Apache does sound better using a different patch. Nice recording

Hi Roger

The reason I mentioned the reverb is because I was under the assumption that you were trying for The Shadows sound on this. My apologies, I have re-read your first post & you did say it was your own version. I think as I also read Lou's post at the same time I mixed both posts together & came up with the wrong conclusion on what you were trying to achieve

[Charlie Hall]

Hi Roger,
I can assure you that the cave sound you hear on the original is not reverb as there is very little if any at all on the original (it could even be room ambience alone). The sound is from the echo alone, mostly because there is a lot of it, and because Hank's sound has decent sustain. I do agree that the Magicstomp patch is falling short, although it sounded OK to me when I wrote the patch.
Regards,
Charlie

[Roger...]

Hi Robert,

Ref. My original post. When I stated it was my own version, I meant that it was the nearest that I could get to the original. My apologies (not brilliant with words). Your original assumption was correct. I agree, that sometimes it is nice to play some numbers with different tones/sounds. It sort of breaks it up a bit from what you're used to hearing.

Kind regards
Roger

[Roger...]

Hi Charlie,

My short-comings I think. I assume that the sustain that I hear is reverb. Obviously from what yourself and others have said it must be down to other factors. I am learning more and more (I hope) from you good people out there.

Kind regards
Roger

[Deleted]

Roger

Sounded good enough to me. I prefer Apache with just Echo No Reverb at all. Try that as reverb can mask the echoes. Worth a shot

All the best
George

[Roger...]

Hi George,

Thanks for your reply.

Below is the same track without the added reverb.

www.4shared.com/audio/vFWhDfzr/Apache2.html

Kind regards
Roger

[grip]

Hi Roger,

Having listened to both of your soundfiles, which are both very well played and good guitar sound, the most noticeable thing for me is the lack of a clear sounding rhythm guitar, I feel sure this would sound even better to a better backing track.


Kind regards,


Chris

[Roger...]

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your very kind comments and for listening. Unfortunately, it's the only backing track I have at the moment, so I'm stuck with it I'm afraid.

Kind regards
Roger

[loujones12]

Hi Rog, well i think the track is much better this time around. without the extra reverb. regards Lou

[Roger...]

Thanks Lou.

I thinks that's probably the majority opinion.

Kind regards
Roger

[Deleted]

Hi Roger

I much prefer it with just the echo. Much better in fact !!

Try the backing track on Goran's site its a freeby !!

goran.tangring.com/index-filer/backings.htm

8th or 9th one down on the left, Right click and download it.
Try it. Or get U.B Hank Vol 1 CD from Leo's Den. A worthwhile investment in my opinion.
www.shadsandcliff.com/backingtrax-cds.htm
www.leosden.co.uk/

Good luck
George

[joeboy]

Hi Roger

I too prefer the 2nd version

[Roger...]

Hi George,

The backing track that I used was from the 'UB Hank Vol One' CD. I have tried the 'Goran' backing track which has a better rhythm guitar, but I find the backing drum pattern a bit too 'automated, simulated' if you know what I mean. Never mind, I think I'll stick.

Kind regards
Roger

[Roger...]

Hi Robert,

Many thanks. I think that I do too now.

Kind regards
Roger